Judging by the number of votes Clyne got in the Man of the match thread, I suspect that you might have been watching the wrong match... [emoji12]
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Post game Swansea
- Thread starter Dreambeliever
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The biggest takeaway from that game is how miserable people are. We show that we can dig deep and carve out a win coming from a losing position, something we have struggled with in the past, and a bunch of dimwits have a go at everything instead of enjoying that fact.
Some had a go at Klopp cause he is incapable of doing anything to turn these kind of games. We won.
People have go at Firmino cause he offera Jack shit. Goal and earned a penalty.
People have a go at Henderson for everything. Assist.
Ok then lets have a go at Karius and Clyne and their defender who was stupid enough to make the penalty. Lets just have a go cause our team is so fucking shit with a clueless manager.... Damn them if they dare win the league playing this shit.
Some had a go at Klopp cause he is incapable of doing anything to turn these kind of games. We won.
People have go at Firmino cause he offera Jack shit. Goal and earned a penalty.
People have a go at Henderson for everything. Assist.
Ok then lets have a go at Karius and Clyne and their defender who was stupid enough to make the penalty. Lets just have a go cause our team is so fucking shit with a clueless manager.... Damn them if they dare win the league playing this shit.
I'd like to add a bit about the post match comments.
The papers are referring to it as if Klopp seriously lost his rag at half time, however Hendo said afterwards (I paraphrase as it's from memory) "He was angry, yeah, very angry, but he kept most of it in".
That phrasing is extremely telling, & pleased me no end. We came out & played second half, pressed & harried, ran more, pushed more without being overly aggressive, & seemingly this was in response to the players knowing Klopp was pissed off, but wigthout him throwing boots at them! That's a very good sign, that they were upset that they'd let him down & wanted to do better.
As for Klopp's comments:
“It’s not allowed that we accept a bad day. Even on a bad day you have to fight against the start in this game, you have to strike back. You have to cool down. There were small things where you could see we lost patience with yourself and we interrupted the situation by moaning about decisions even if it was absolutely right.
“So we were angry at half-time but with ourselves, with nobody else,”
I pulled this part out cos this is what stuck with me. He recognised the players impatience with the officials & did the reverse of what his contemporaries (thinking primarily of Mourinho & Ferguson here) do, & as opposed to fostering that anger & encouraging it, he stamped it out, asking them to focus on the football instead.
In today's game, where surrounding the officials & getting angry at them is more likely to cost you then gain you an advantage, it's a much better attitude to have.
There's more there to dissect, but I'll let you guys have a look should you wish. In short though, if you didnt listen to all the comments properly yesterday, don't take the headlines at face value, what happened in our game yesterday was a lot more, & a lot better, than simply the manager losing his rag at half time, it was the players realising they'd disappointed him & proving they could do better, & over the course of this season, that somewhat subtle difference could be huge.
The papers are referring to it as if Klopp seriously lost his rag at half time, however Hendo said afterwards (I paraphrase as it's from memory) "He was angry, yeah, very angry, but he kept most of it in".
That phrasing is extremely telling, & pleased me no end. We came out & played second half, pressed & harried, ran more, pushed more without being overly aggressive, & seemingly this was in response to the players knowing Klopp was pissed off, but wigthout him throwing boots at them! That's a very good sign, that they were upset that they'd let him down & wanted to do better.
As for Klopp's comments:
“It’s not allowed that we accept a bad day. Even on a bad day you have to fight against the start in this game, you have to strike back. You have to cool down. There were small things where you could see we lost patience with yourself and we interrupted the situation by moaning about decisions even if it was absolutely right.
“So we were angry at half-time but with ourselves, with nobody else,”
I pulled this part out cos this is what stuck with me. He recognised the players impatience with the officials & did the reverse of what his contemporaries (thinking primarily of Mourinho & Ferguson here) do, & as opposed to fostering that anger & encouraging it, he stamped it out, asking them to focus on the football instead.
In today's game, where surrounding the officials & getting angry at them is more likely to cost you then gain you an advantage, it's a much better attitude to have.
There's more there to dissect, but I'll let you guys have a look should you wish. In short though, if you didnt listen to all the comments properly yesterday, don't take the headlines at face value, what happened in our game yesterday was a lot more, & a lot better, than simply the manager losing his rag at half time, it was the players realising they'd disappointed him & proving they could do better, & over the course of this season, that somewhat subtle difference could be huge.
I am actually amazed on how often he pinpoints the issues with an open and honest mind.... A lot of the other managers go hiding and never "SAW this or that". I am extremelly happy that we have Klopp!
Imagine how good we'd be if we'd spent a decent amount of money on good players this summer.
Encouraging and infuriating at the same time.
Encouraging and infuriating at the same time.
What are you talking about?
Shouldn't you be in Birmingham?
Just imagine if we hadn't spent that money on Mane. What idiots we are.
We didn't quite win ugly - I thought we played some really good stuff in the second half, and showed more patience, thank god, than against Burnley, so there's a bit of progress there. But it's excellent that we did keep going and got the three points. That's just what we haven't done (enough) in similar circumstances in recent seasons. I felt this game was a real test and we got through it. I think we need to do it a few more times before there's a sound basis there for optimism, but it's a start.
A couple of things that did bother me:
Coutinho, yet again, took about twenty minutes to even start to get into the game. I don't know why it is, but he rarely seems sharp from the start. He did work hard later, but it's high time this really talented player wakes up when the game kicks off rather than closer to half time.
There's still too much faffing about at the back. Karius looks promising with his distribution, but some of the passing around there was just idiotic, and sometimes no one was talking to anyone else, such as when Matip found himself closed down. I know why they pass out and build as they do, but they must always pass with a view that they ARE trying to move forwards and build, rather than just doing a training routine. Too often they seem to hypnotise themselves into a private world of triangles.
Generally, however, I thought there were some decent things to see. Mane was good again, although with his speed and strength I'd like to see him take defenders on more often. Milner is a great gift from Rodgers - a peerless pro. Studge worked hard, and apart from his stupid dive I thought there were signs of him slowly getting back to his old self. Swansea were very good for the first half hour - it's unfortunate that they worked so much harder against us than against previous opponents.
A couple of things that did bother me:
Coutinho, yet again, took about twenty minutes to even start to get into the game. I don't know why it is, but he rarely seems sharp from the start. He did work hard later, but it's high time this really talented player wakes up when the game kicks off rather than closer to half time.
There's still too much faffing about at the back. Karius looks promising with his distribution, but some of the passing around there was just idiotic, and sometimes no one was talking to anyone else, such as when Matip found himself closed down. I know why they pass out and build as they do, but they must always pass with a view that they ARE trying to move forwards and build, rather than just doing a training routine. Too often they seem to hypnotise themselves into a private world of triangles.
Generally, however, I thought there were some decent things to see. Mane was good again, although with his speed and strength I'd like to see him take defenders on more often. Milner is a great gift from Rodgers - a peerless pro. Studge worked hard, and apart from his stupid dive I thought there were signs of him slowly getting back to his old self. Swansea were very good for the first half hour - it's unfortunate that they worked so much harder against us than against previous opponents.
I commented on what I believe the reason for this was in the match thread, Hendo would drop back to give the defence an option, which they would use, but he would rarely turn, & when he did, neither Lallana nor Gini dropped back to give him an option, & Swansea were adequate enough to press quickly & ensure we couldn't always use the fullbacks as an outlet. So it would inevitably be turned back around the defence.
That's part of my issue with hendo in that role, traditionally a DM would be able to buy himself time with the ball at feet & be able to carry it at least a few yards at a slow enough pace up the field that those options would open up. Hendo when facing upfield seems to only be capable of running full tilt, risking losing it (so he wisely rarely does this when deep), or look for a raking pass.
Molby, for all his range of fantastic passing, was brilliant at that, which enabled him to actually make those passes time & again, & Alonso simalrly was capable of creating & using that space in the centre of the pitch too, that infamous match against spurs he was always in & around the centre circle, would turn, create space, & then pass. Hendo, in the same situation, if he cant see an instant outlet, will turn his back towards their goal, & look for a pass to the full backs or another defender.
Ratings from me
Karius 4 - second game but didnt instill confidence in the back four. Just clear people out.
Clyne 7 - did his job well
Lovren 7 - solid
Matip - 6 jittery
Milner 7 - mr reliable, so much better than Moreno
Henderson 5 - game of two halves for me. First half a 3, second half a 7.
Lallana 5 not enough time to do anything really
Wijnaldum 5 ineffective going forward
Coutinho 7 - dangerous in the second half. Should have scored
Firmino 7 moments win games.. He had 2 of them mom
Mane 6 not at his best
Subs
Sturridge 6 wasteful at times
Origi 6 looked dangerous with the ball at his feet but didnt always make the right choice
Can 5 didnt really see him after he came on
Karius 4 - second game but didnt instill confidence in the back four. Just clear people out.
Clyne 7 - did his job well
Lovren 7 - solid
Matip - 6 jittery
Milner 7 - mr reliable, so much better than Moreno
Henderson 5 - game of two halves for me. First half a 3, second half a 7.
Lallana 5 not enough time to do anything really
Wijnaldum 5 ineffective going forward
Coutinho 7 - dangerous in the second half. Should have scored
Firmino 7 moments win games.. He had 2 of them mom
Mane 6 not at his best
Subs
Sturridge 6 wasteful at times
Origi 6 looked dangerous with the ball at his feet but didnt always make the right choice
Can 5 didnt really see him after he came on
Exactly. Hendo was guilty of putting pressure on our back line with his passing at times.
I pretty much agree, but I frem Cans present was more encouraging than Origi this time. Didnt do much but looked lighter and didnt just tramp around There.
Thing is its not always an issue, cos usually we have enough pace & movement to give him an outlet. Our lack of pace in the first half & their pressing made it a much bigger issue than normal.
Against Utd Mourinho will use that. It also plays into our other weakness, in pressing the full backs so much to stop him using them as an attacking outlet it pushes Milner back where he's less comfortable in that position. I fear we'll see them do a similar job to Swansea yesterday & create similar problems in doing so.
Mourinho will definitely try to put pressure on our midfield. Also he's gonna try to punish us from set pieces.
Now that Lallana is injured, I really think we should try getting Can ready, we need his height.
How the fuck is our defence going to handle, Fellaini, Zlatan, Smalling in the box?
We didn't spend anything.
It would've been better to spend something. Even better to spend it on good players.
Hence the point.
Sure we could have bought a decent left back, we could have bought a decent DM as well.
That's about it. Left back looks sorted with Milner, however it does bother me that Barrow got passed him a few times.
DM, well that's a different story. I so wanted us to buy Witsel.
I don't think he had much of an outlet though, Wijnaldum and Coutinho were nowhere near him in the first half, so his only options were Matip and Lovren. In the second half it was noticable that Henderson pushed forward (as did the defense) and Coutinho got alot closer to him so they were exchanging passes alot more.
He's a little overly cautious at times with his passing, I think it's a product of his earlier form this season when he kept giving the ball away. He played two really great passes though, one for Sturridge which got him behind their backline and the one for the goal.
Mourinho will not allow his fullbacks to open space for Mane, Firmino and Studge/Lallana. I trykt hope he does, but can't see it happen.
Milner has four goals, from four penalties. Impressive, yes - he's shown great composure not least with the last one to take the three points. Concerning it isn't. What it is indicative of is the havoc that our forward line is creating in the opposing penalty box. Unless I'm mistaken, Liverpool and Arsenal are tied this season for most penalties on four each?
If Milner wasn't on penalties then he'd have 0 goals and someone else would have four more.
The squad has scored 25 goals so far, with Milner, Coutinho and Firmino all on four. Close behind are Lallana and Mané on three a piece. So Milner is actually just one of our top scorers.
On the game, Swansea made it difficult first half. They don't train to press for a full game (this was clearly the plan Guidolin has mentioned in his press conference) so were never going to be able to keep it up - that and Liverpool stepping it up a gear second half made the difference.
As good as Swansea looked in the first half though, the stats tell the full story. They were blitzed second half and Liverpool deserved the three points.
The internet has reached almost all of England at this point.
Probably why he hasn't been as excellent he was last season.
Great post.
Here's what Milner had to say about it (and Klopp in general):
“I’ve probably had too many managers but every manager is different,” said Milner. “They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. He [Klopp] is a top manager and he’s definitely one of the best that I have worked with. His organisation sessions are different to anything else that I have ever experienced. His passion can only be a good thing. Sometimes, when he is bouncing on the touchline with enthusiasm, the only thing you could say is that he is maybe too emotional.
"That’s something he could easily have been at half-time with the performance we’d put in. But he held it in just enough. We knew he was angry, you could tell, but he still put his words across well. It’s easy to fly off the handle and not be very productive. We know how emotional he is but he did a great job. He said the right things and we came out and performed how we should. He deserves a lot of credit. He is top manager. He has proved that before and hopefully we can be very successful with him."
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I know there is no bollox just identification of the root cause which most pundits and fans can see. I will never forget when he first arrived how he stated and identified the overall feeling around the club and made his priority about making everyone feel good. Its really hard not to like him even though we lost 2 fucking cup finals. Perhaps because in most games the players are expected to put in a shift and usually do.
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