Firmino is better. Maybe not a better striker, but definitely a better footballer. No fucking doubt.
And I love Ketchup.
Poor the Emre..
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And I love Ketchup.
Its a problem when people confuse ketchup with brown sauce. Torres couldn't replace Bobby.
Is he better than Sadio or Mo ? Hmmmmm.
Is he better than Sadio or Mo ? Hmmmmm.
God, we're at that point where a player - in this case Firmino - is so amazingly important and amazing and important, that no player in Liverpool's rich striking history could even get in the team ahead of him. Maybe no player in the WORLD>
Torres, in his first season, was one of the most devastating strikers on the planet. Firmino has just hit 50 Premier league goals, Torres scored that in half as many games.
Now, I know they are different players and I know "systems" and all that, but let's at least be reasonable.
Reminds me a bit of that poll where Liverpool fans said they'd prefer Momo Sissoko to Lionel Messi.
Torres, in his first season, was one of the most devastating strikers on the planet. Firmino has just hit 50 Premier league goals, Torres scored that in half as many games.
Now, I know they are different players and I know "systems" and all that, but let's at least be reasonable.
Reminds me a bit of that poll where Liverpool fans said they'd prefer Momo Sissoko to Lionel Messi.
I'm not talking about Kevin Phillips. Why are you talking about Kevin Phillips? Do you think him and Torres were equally good players?
I think Gerrard would be terrific in the Firmino false nine position. In fact, I don't doubt he'd be better than Bobby despite my adoration for the Brazilian. Gerrard would play Mane and Salah through time and again with his incredible passing range, he'd pick the ball up deep and drive at the opponents, and of course, he would outstrip Bobby considerably in terms of shooting, especially from outside the box (something Bobby gets a fair few opportunities to do, but that he has irregularly capitalised on). He'd also be able to use his energy, strength and ball control to be a constant source of trouble in much the way Bobby does.
I'm sure you're not saying that Sadio and Mo are not currently two of the most amazing strikers on the planet ?
Yes, Torres was a better striker than Bobby is. Virgil is a better centre back than Bobby. Fabs is a better CM. As you say, "systems" - but discussing players in a team without a system of some sort makes the discussion less meaningful.
All hypotheticals of course. 🙂
Hmm interesting I didn't really consider Gerrard playing as a false nine.
That could actually work, and if Klopp got a young Gerrard that he could mould, even better.
You used goals to make your point. Philips got goals a plenty, I'm just trying to highlight that it's not only about the goals.
I don't there's a right or wrong here.
Torres was fantastic in Benitez system, Firmino probably wouldn't have been.
Mane and Salah aren't central strikers really
Neither is Bobby though. He is an AM converted into a false nine. Torres wouldn't be very good in his position. He would excel in Salah's position though.
It would actually appear that neither Gerrard, Torres, Suarez, Kevin Phillips or ANYONE ever could improve on the current front three of Liverpool.
Which is nice
He's not exactly popular these days but I reckon Suarez could bench any of them
Kenny as a false 9 ? 🙂
For sure. And I think of the three we have, Salah is the most replaceable, but I tend to think he's overrated for some strange reason.
Getting angry in advance about something no-one will say ...
"would a midfield 3 of Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard work in the current Klopp system.
Mascherano would, not sure about Alonso and Gerrard. Not really 90 minute chasers them two"
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It does them more of a disservice. But then we always do this when the rapture strikes. Even Rodgers had a bit of this
Yep
Everyone loves Dirk. He is still too slow for a Klopp system.
Our system rely on them getting into goalscoring positions. I don’t have any stats or so but I think you would find them in a strikers position quite often. Could we ask Torres to operate the same way? Probably as he seem to love running down behind defence and had extreme skills to go along. Could we ask him to keep dropping deep and do the role Firmino does? I have doubts if we got the best of him then.
Gerrard's biggest 'problem' is that he would almost continually press & tackle all over the pitch, when every manager he played under wanted him to be more restrained & play in a certain part of the pitch.
Playing under Klopp I have no doubt that he'd have the freedom to do at least most of that, & the continual running required would satisfy his urge to always be involved too.
He'd shine under any system the game has ever been played in, but fuck, he's practically tailor made for the way we play now.
I liked Can but we could never properly find his role in that midfield three. Scored in some big games and was capable of exceptional moments (that goal we scored that was about 4 or 5 1-2s down the pitch in a CL game). I don't feel any animosity for him and think he's been treated like crap here if he wasn't warned of being left out. He would be a great addition for other lesser CL teams in Europe.
Covering ground doesn't always equate to being tactically aware though. When we played Gerrard and Alonso in the middle at Arsenal (and in Istanbul), both were fucking dire as a partnership, they left holes everywhere and we got destroyed as a result. Alonso did put his foot in and he also worked hard, but he could also go missing too when the chips were down, particularly early on in his Liverpool career. He was brilliant obviously, but he had flaws he had to work on, so did Gerrard.
Rafa's decision on Gerrard was two-fold. He saw that he couldn't always be relied on in particular setups as a more orthodox central midfielder, and he knew if he lifted the shackles off him, he would do more damage to the opposition. His record on the right and then behind Torres saw him reach his full potential, which was no surprise to anyone really.
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