Poor Benteke

[mark1975]

Don't see how klopp is to blame...rodgers yeah but not klopp. Rodgers wanted him but wanted to make him something he wasn't. Klopp has his own style but benteke just doesn't suit it. Doesn't make klopp a cunt. Rodgers did the same thing with carroll (which makes him wanting benteke even more perplexing).

We didn't have a striker for months and we could barely buy a goal. We could have used him but chose not to, we could have shown we are a team that can adjust to what's thrown at us, but we chose not to. Of course Klopp shares some of the blame. We've had a £32m striker languinshing on the bench, which is fine when you're winning games, and a bit questionable when you're losing AND not scoring goals.

Klopp wanted Benteke for Dortmund, so how is that any less perplexing? It's selective blame apportioning. Klopp has talked him up recently as "the complete striker", and then played everyone and anyone infront of him. That's not perplexing at all. That's poor handling, so yes, the club have been cunts towards him. Like I say, he's not played well (no arguments from me there) and I didn't think he was suited to us anyway, but blaming him/Rodgers is only part of the bigger picture. We've handed this really poorly and Klopp is part of that.

I'd love to hear how the club have handled this well, or how Klopp has, or anyone else. It's best for EVERYONE if he goes, but he deserves some sympathy for this farce.

 

[Glen C]

We didn't have a striker for months and we could barely buy a goal. We could have used him but chose not to, we could have shown we are a team that can adjust to what's thrown at us, but we chose not to. Of course Klopp shares some of the blame. We've had a £32m striker languinshing on the bench, which is fine when you're winning games, and a bit questionable when you're losing AND not scoring goals.

Klopp wanted Benteke for Dortmund, so how is that any less perplexing? It's selective blame apportioning. Klopp has talked him up recently as "the complete striker", and then played everyone and anyone infront of him. That's not perplexing at all. That's poor handling, so yes, the club have been cunts towards him. Like I say, he's not played well (no arguments from me there) and I didn't think he was suited to us anyway, but blaming him/Rodgers is only part of the bigger picture. We've handed this really poorly and Klopp is part of that.

I'd love to hear how the club have handled this well, or how Klopp has, or anyone else. It's best for EVERYONE if he goes, but he deserves some sympathy for this farce.

He said he wanted him so why didn't he get him? Either didn't think he was worth the money or didn't want him enough.

Klopp isn't like Rodgers. Rodgers would get players and find a system that fits hence why we can't really say we had a style of play under Rodgers. The better managers have their own style and use players that suit it. Benteke doesn't suit it hence why he's not in the team. Even when he was playing his lack of mobility and work rate was poor. End of the day he's not good enough for our system so why bother play him? I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Tinto]

Is there really any difference in the way Rodgers managed Balotelli and the way Klopp managed Benteke?

Both Balotelli and Benteke had a poor attitude in their own way. Both didn't play well for us and have struggled.

The difference Balotelli gets all the blame with nobody defending him whilst some are keen to defend Benteke and (partially) blame the manager. I don't blame Rodgers for what happened with Balotelli and I don't blame Klopp with what is happening now with Benteke.

Btw I don't care how many goals Benteke scored for Villa. I just care how well he does for us.

 

[tony]

We didn't have a striker for months and we could barely buy a goal. We could have used him but chose not to, we could have shown we are a team that can adjust to what's thrown at us, but we chose not to. Of course Klopp shares some of the blame. We've had a £32m striker languinshing on the bench, which is fine when you're winning games, and a bit questionable when you're losing AND not scoring goals.

Klopp wanted Benteke for Dortmund, so how is that any less perplexing? It's selective blame apportioning. Klopp has talked him up recently as "the complete striker", and then played everyone and anyone infront of him. That's not perplexing at all. That's poor handling, so yes, the club have been cunts towards him. Like I say, he's not played well (no arguments from me there) and I didn't think he was suited to us anyway, but blaming him/Rodgers is only part of the bigger picture. We've handed this really poorly and Klopp is part of that.

I'd love to hear how the club have handled this well, or how Klopp has, or anyone else. It's best for EVERYONE if he goes, but he deserves some sympathy for this farce.

He's had plenty of opportunities to shine and has mostly failed.- you cannot blame the manager for leaving him out when he has been so hapless. I have to agree with RA, I was astonished to see how lazy he is live, it really is shocking how little effort he appears to put in and how hopeless he is position wise. That and the offsides grrrr! No I'm sorry, he only has himself to blame and it's hard to have any empathy at the best of times with someone who earns £5 mil a year. Also putting him in the same bracket as Aguero is a bit laughable if you don't mind me saying

 

[mark1975]

He said he wanted him so why didn't he get him? Either didn't think he was worth the money or didn't want him enough.

Klopp isn't like Rodgers. Rodgers would get players and find a system that fits hence why we can't really say we had a style of play under Rodgers. The better managers have their own style and use players that suit it. Benteke doesn't suit it hence why he's not in the team. Even when he was playing his lack of mobility and work rate was poor. End of the day he's not good enough for our system so why bother play him? I don't see anything wrong with that.

Klopp identified him as a viable buy, we don't know why that didn't go through, so that's speculative at best.

 

[mark1975]

He's had plenty of opportunities to shine and has mostly failed.- you cannot blame the manager for leaving him out when he has been so hapless. I have to agree with RA, I was astonished to see how lazy he is live, it really is shocking how little effort he appears to put in and how hopeless he is position wise. That and the offsides grrrr! No I'm sorry, he only has himself to blame and it's hard to have any empathy at the best of times with someone who earns £5 mil a year. Also putting him in the same bracket as Aguero is a bit laughable if you don't mind me saying

I said his "record" is on a par with Aguero. Did I say "He's as good as Aguero"?. So it's not really laughable if you interpret what I said, as I said it. I said his record proves that he isn't "shit", which is what a few fucking dullards have said. Its a pointless argument and the point has been long lost.

We haven't handled this well as a club and he isn't right for us, but he isn't a "shit" player either, which I'm sure he'll go on to prove elsewhere. I hope we learn from this.

 

[Grjt2]

2005: Wow Zendens playing really well, is Boros player of the year, and is interested in signing, lets get him....... and play him in a position he hasnt occupied for 10 fucking years

2015: Wow Bentekes playing really well, is one of Villas two players of the year, and is interested in signing, lets get him....... FOR 32 MILLLLLLLLLION POUNDS, ignoring the fact he isnt a fit for us, and exacebate this by expecting him to play in a completely different manner to the one thats made him successful.

Plus ca change

 

[tony]

[QUOTE="mark1975, post: 1407729, member: 48"]I said his "record" is on a par with Aguero. Did I say "He's as good as Aguero"?. So it's not really laughable if you interpret what I said, as I said it. I said his record proves that he isn't "shit", which is what a few fucking dullards have said. Its a pointless argument and the point has been long lost.

We haven't handled this well as a club and he isn't right for us, but he isn't a "shit" player either, which I'm sure he'll go on to prove elsewhere. I hope we learn from this.[/QUOTE]

How on earth do you get Benteke's record anywhere near Aguero's Mark? They are not in the same league, and apart from a purple patch in 2012/13 his record is just about average. I realise he is a round peg in a square hole, however, if he was that good he should be able to adapt, even to a limited extent, to the way we play. Not only has he not done so but it doesn't appear that he is endeavouring to do so.

 

[peekay]

[QUOTE="mark1975, post: 1407729, member: 48"]I said his "record" is on a par with Aguero. Did I say "He's as good as Aguero"?. So it's not really laughable if you interpret what I said, as I said it. I said his record proves that he isn't "shit", which is what a few fucking dullards have said. Its a pointless argument and the point has been long lost.

We haven't handled this well as a club and he isn't right for us, but he isn't a "shit" player either, which I'm sure he'll go on to prove elsewhere. I hope we learn from this.

How on earth do you get Benteke's record anywhere near Aguero's Mark? They are not in the same league, and apart from a purple patch in 2012/13 his record is just about average. I realise he is a round peg in a square hole, however, if he was that good he should be able to adapt, even to a limited extent, to the way we play. Not only has he not done so but it doesn't appear that he is endeavouring to do so.[/QUOTE]

Not sure I agree with the Aguero comparison myself. I dont think Mark is absolving Benteke of the blame. But the point remains, we are struggling for goals, Benteke scores goals under the right circumstances. We have not even attempted to play the way Benteke prefers.

Maybe Klopp has adopted a long term view and decided that style will not work for us in the long term. But the truth is that this transfer has been a complete clusterf*** from everyone involved - scouts, transfer committee, Benteke, Rodgers, Klopp (to a minor degree), owners. We expect other players to haggle and bring the price down while we have a 32.5 million pound asset which we have no clue on how to handle.

Benteke is no Andy Carroll or Cisse. He is going to a club like West Ham and score 15-20 goals per season. Most likely 5 of them against us with our defenders having no clue on how to handle an aerial threat.

 

[mark1975]

How on earth do you get Benteke's record anywhere near Aguero's Mark? They are not in the same league, and apart from a purple patch in 2012/13 his record is just about average. I realise he is a round peg in a square hole, however, if he was that good he should be able to adapt, even to a limited extent, to the way we play. Not only has he not done so but it doesn't appear that he is endeavouring to do so.

His record by the end of last season was 49 in 101 games. So more or less 1 in 2, he's got a 1 in 2 record for us in terms of goals to games started. There aren't many strikers in the Premiership who have a better goals to games ratio, Aguero was a bad example because he probably has the best, to be fair, he averages goals in about 65% of his games, which is World Class.

I want to reiterate, I'm not saying Benteke is right for us, he's not, but people are saying he's shit, which his record completely contradicts. It's not all his fault, because you don't go from having a 1 in 2 record to nothing overnight. Neither the club or he have worked hard enough to make this move work.

 

[Red Bird]

I agree that it's not Benteke's fault that he doesn't just fit or that we were stupid enough to actually think he was ever worth £32.5 million. But he has to bear some responsibility for not trying to adapt, for thinking that he's the finished article to whom the team must adapt. It's also his responsibility to finish off chances when he has them. It's largely up to him whether he stays or not performance-wise but I have a feeling he blew the chances when he had them.

As for Klopp wanting him, are we absolutely certain of this? He had a look at him, to be sure, but in the final analysis was not prepared to pay the £7 million or so that Aston Villa paid Genk, never mind the mind-blowing amount we eventually paid Villa. That, I think, is more telling. This transfer has been disaster for all concerned-- for the player, for Villa who lost his goals, and is almost certain to go down, and for Liverpool.

 

[Mystic]

Should got a run out tonight, the pacey striker up front wasn't working, so his power may have helped.

I'm not sure, it really struck me when Origi came on just how well he was holding up the ball, basically he offered most of what Benteke offers, but much more.

 

[tombrown]

2005: Wow Zendens playing really well, is Boros player of the year, and is interested in signing, lets get him....... and play him in a position he hasnt occupied for 10 fucking years

2015: Wow Bentekes playing really well, is one of Villas two players of the year, and is interested in signing, lets get him....... FOR 32 MILLLLLLLLLION POUNDS, ignoring the fact he isnt a fit for us, and exacebate this by expecting him to play in a completely different manner to the one thats made him successful.

Plus ca change

Is this a game where we have to fill in all the intervening years with equivalent signing?
OK I'll start with the obvious -
2011 - andy carroll

 

[mark1975]

I'm not sure, it really struck me when Origi came on just how well he was holding up the ball, basically he offered most of what Benteke offers, but much more.

I think this is why he's jumped ahead of him in the pecking order, because you can see he's more mobile, intelligent and he makes the right type of runs leading the line. Contrast that to a few months ago though and he was all over the place and shy of confidence. He's come on loads and is certainly showing the potential we paid for. I really like the look of the lad.

 

[keniget]

Why is everyone so certain that Klopp wanted him?

I don't really see how Klopp is at fault for anything here. The club is though.

I think everyone would've gotten behind Benteke a lot more had he shown more determination and will to make a success of himself. Unfortunately on top of being poor he often looks as though he's waiting for something to come along and kickstart his career here. There is only so long you can afford to do that at a club like Liverpool (even in our current state).

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'd have a smidgeon of sympathy for him if he put a bit of effort in on the pitch. But he doesn't so he can do one. Plus he's rubbish so meh.

 

[Zlate]

Benteke couldn't even play ahead of a teenage Origi at the 2014 World Cup, let that sink in, then we go and pay £32.5million for him.

He isn't a bad player but he's a bad player for us, doesn't suit our style, was a massive panic buy from Rodgers because he needed goals and he took a risk which didn't pay off.

 

[Glen C]

Benteke would have a lot more support if he put the effort in on the pitch. But his work rate has been shit, and for a target man he gets shrugged off the ball quite easily. Like klopp said it's all good when he scores but what about the other 89 mins. He's been dropped because he doesn't work hard enough for the team so I don't see how klopp has done anything wrong. Plus he's shit at 1 on 1's.

 

[mark1975]

Benteke would have a lot more support if he put the effort in on the pitch. But his work rate has been shit, and for a target man he gets shrugged off the ball quite easily. Like klopp said it's all good when he scores but what about the other 89 mins. He's been dropped because he doesn't work hard enough for the team so I don't see how klopp has done anything wrong. Plus he's shit at 1 on 1's.

There were times earlier in the season where he came on and made a difference but then didn't figure in the following game. He also looked alot more improved in a recent game after Sturridge and Origi came on, he got support and began to look positive and get involved, linking up well. We haven't seen that setup given a chance since, so he's not getting rewards either when he does do well. His confidence is shot.

If you think Klopp has handled this brilliantly then great, I don't think he has. I'm not absolving Benteke of blame either, but it's too easy as a Klopp fan and someone who's anti-Benteke/Rodgers to apportion blame as it suits your argument. The whole saga has been badly handled from the minute he signed, by everyone involved. Klopp has come out and labelled him the complete striker, and then left him on the bench, I'm not sure what the logic is there when he's not playing him and he's clearly favouring Sturridge/Origi/Firmino ahead of him. If he's saying it to boost his confidence, then I don't know why because it's not like he's getting the minutes to show it and we've made literally no effort to adapt to him.

 

[keniget]

That argument simply doesn't wash for me. He's gotten plenty of chances from the start of games and has not done enough.

What more should we have done for him?

 

[Judge Jules]

Why is everyone so certain that Klopp wanted him?

I don't really see how Klopp is at fault for anything here. The club is though.

I think everyone would've gotten behind Benteke a lot more had he shown more determination and will to make a success of himself. Unfortunately on top of being poor he often looks as though he's waiting for something to come along and kickstart his career here. There is only so long you can afford to do that at a club like Liverpool (even in our current state).

Klopp was definitely interested in his Dortmund days (it was widely referred to when he joined us) but in the end he decided against the signing, which was reported as well.

 

[tony]

Yeah lets blame Klopp for Tekkers missing seven, yes seven, one on ones. It's all his fault. Klopp has given him loads of chances and he has failed to deliver, imho he is completely right to bench him. Some evidence of him attemping to fit in, working hard off the ball for example, could have got him more game time despite the lack of form but you can hardly expect Klopp to sling him in atm now he has other options.

 

[Hansern]

The one thing I've got some sympathy for him is in regards to the quality of the crosses we supply him with. Thats been horrendous all season.
But in the end its a moot point seeing as he has missed loads of one on ones and has looked quite disinterested in a few games.
If its not working at least give 100%.
He's a quality player though and is affected by low confidence. But is he the type of forward Klopp will build his attack around? Doubtful. Quite a few strikers could be on the move this season. Icardi, Lacazette etc and they would be much more suitable to us IF we could manage to get one of them.

Will be interesting to see if Klopp keeps him for one more season or if he's off in the summer.
The size of the bid will probably determind that.

 

[mark1975]

That argument simply doesn't wash for me. He's gotten plenty of chances from the start of games and has not done enough.

What more should we have done for him?

I didn't say he's done himself justice, but there are games when he's played well and been benched for the next game too. Like I say, he hasn't adapted to us, we haven't to him, most of us called it. I just don't buy that A) it's all Benteke's fault and B) he's shit. But I've said this like a dozen times now in this thread and have explained it clearly enough that I'm not fully blaming anyone and I've made my (negative) views on Benteke quite clear. Like I say, if peple thinks the club and Klopp have handled this well, then fair enough, I just don't see it.

He's not blameless and neither are the club.

 

[willby]

That argument simply doesn't wash for me. He's gotten plenty of chances from the start of games and has not done enough.

What more should we have done for him?

Gift-wrapped some of the crosses?😗

 

[manwithnoname]

He said he wanted him so why didn't he get him? Either didn't think he was worth the money or didn't want him enough.

Klopp isn't like Rodgers. Rodgers would get players and find a system that fits hence why we can't really say we had a style of play under Rodgers. The better managers have their own style and use players that suit it. Benteke doesn't suit it hence why he's not in the team. Even when he was playing his lack of mobility and work rate was poor. End of the day he's not good enough for our system so why bother play him? I don't see anything wrong with that.

Right, because Klopp is somehow infallible. The most expensive striker he has ever bought in his entire managerial career cost about 20m, scored a grand total of three goals and was then loaned out after just one dismal season. And he partnered him with journeyman Ramos, who I think has scored about 4 times in total.

How did that happen?

 

[Glen C]

Right, because Klopp is somehow infallible. The most expensive striker he has ever bought in his entire managerial career cost about 20m, scored a grand total of three goals and was then loaned out after just one dismal season. And he partnered him with journeyman Ramos, who I think has scored about 4 times in total.

How did that happen?

What has that got to do with anything I've said? I said that I don't see what he has done wrong with benteke? He doesn't suit our style of play so klopp doesn't pick him. Where did I say he was infallible?

Every manager buys duds so I don't see your point.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I didn't say he's done himself justice, but there are games when he's played well and been benched for the next game too. Like I say, he hasn't adapted to us, we haven't to him, most of us called it. I just don't buy that A) it's all Benteke's fault and B) he's shit. But I've said this like a dozen times now in this thread and have explained it clearly enough that I'm not fully blaming anyone and I've made my (negative) views on Benteke quite clear. Like I say, if peple thinks the club and Klopp have handled this well, then fair enough, I just don't see it.

He's not blameless and neither are the club.

Nope. This isn't even about Benteke for you - you just have a painfully transparent pro-Rodgers agenda. Which you are pursuing here to the nth degree - trying to push it off on Klopp - because you're still sulking about the fact that we got rid of Rodgers, or about the manner in which we got rid of him, it doesn't really matter. It's eye-rollingly pathetic.
Rodgers bought him and was massively naive in the purchase. It wasn't a panic buy either. We were heavily linked with him before the transfer window even began - the pursuit of Benteke by Rodgers was clear right from the off. Everyone could see it wasn't going to work. EVERYONE. Except Rodgers. Benteke has been given plenty of starts and has blown chances that have mandated that he be benched. To keep starting striker that couldn't finish a sentence would simply be more fodder to hit Klopp with.
The only thing you're right about is that Benteke isn't shit. But it is 100% Rodgers fault that we've had to find out that we were all right about Benteke.

 

[mark1975]

Errr, I'm extremely pro-Klopp (I was the first to reply to Hansern's wonderful Klopp article this morning, for instance), like I was pro-Rodgers and like I was pro-Kenny. I'm not some dickhead who turns on the next manager because I liked the previous one, but I'm not going lap up everything Klopp does either like some blind superfan. He's made mistakes like every other manager in the game.

So don't tar me with that fucking brush. There is no agenda, a few people called Benteke shit and said it's all his fault he's where he is, which isn't true. That's the only point I made, but it seems some fucking idiots don't know how to read.

 

[white-sox]

Errr, I'm extremely pro-Klopp (I was the first to reply to Hansern's wonderful Klopp article this morning, for instance), like I was pro-Rodgers and like I was pro-Kenny. I'm not some dickhead who turns on the next manager because I liked the previous one, but I'm not going lap up everything Klopp does either like some blind superfan. He's mistakes like every other manager in the game.

So don't tar we with that fucking brush. There is no agenda, a few people called Benteke shit and said it's all his fault he's where he is, which isn't true. That's the only point I made, but it seems some fucking idiots don't know how to read.

I'm glad you didn't say pro-Hodgson. They would have been too much!