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Parrybowl & Warrior it is then:

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well, i'd certainly like to see a society (and i agree, it doesn't properly exist now) where your next Einstein is subsidised by the more fortunate to fulfil his potential; i wouldn't want a society, however, where a stupid and feckless rich mother isn't free to let her son live the life or Riley, if she and he so choose.
 
Well, this is perfectly true, but where do you address it?

There are so many people having a go at the weak people on benefits (some are scroungers, of course) instead of targeting multi-millionaires who, because of their monetary backing, are often less chased up and harangued. If they were easier targets, I daresay we'd be in less of a mess.
 
i've written loads on here before about what i see as the failings of our education system. it's really too much to get into at this time of night! but, in a nutshell, i think the consensus of the last 20 years or so of stuffing our universities with every Tom, Dick or Harry has been a nonsense. get fewer people going, but make it as absolutely and solely based on academic ability as humanly possibly. in short, fewer people going makes the total subsidy smaller, and you can therefore afford to reduce fees to what i'd consider a fair and manageable level (say £1k to £3k per year, dependent on means).

as far as i'm concerned, as long as every talented kid, no matter their wealth and background, has a realisitc chance of fulfilling their potential then i'm happy.

personally, i don't have anything against the archetypal multi-millionaire avoiding his taxes, so long as it is legal. i'd do the same: if i was of a mind to donate large parts of my income to charity, the fucking government would be the last one i'd consider. this is a problem for the tax legislators to negotiate; but good luck to Tony Blair et al for the time being!
 
'WAAAA WAAAA WAAA NO KOP WHAT A DISGRACE....'

Let's cut to the fucking chase here. Beyond (a few) European nights that we don't have cos we don't even fucking play there anymore, and 2 games a season against Everton and Man United - and even they're questionable - what atmosphere is generated out of the Kop these days anyway? Fuck. All.

The only justifiable reason for keeping the Kop is that we've always had one; not because it sets apart wins from draws and all that jazz. 'Magical nights' happen in it once every 5 years.

All this chat about a "generic by the numbers soulless bowl of a stadium' as if it's an affront to the team's support? Well, here's some news - the support inside Anfield is 'generic by the numbers soulless junk' these days anyway.

The Kop's nice, it would be nice to continue with it. But let's not reinvent it into something it's not. We used to be able to stand, we used to have a bootroom, we used to have an academy that produced wonderful players, we used to pass the batpon of ownership to the next Robin Hood in line.

The Kop used to be something to.
 
My dad has told me story after story of the magic of the kop at its very best, and what it was like, and these stories are part of the magic of liverpool for me. I've never experienced that magic, not really at a game, and that's regrettable. Perhaps few have of my era. I've only been to a bunch of midweek, forgettable games. I've heard a lot of nothing and heard a lot of grumbling at times, as well as the odd failed attempt to get songs going. I've tried to do my part. I've also had just the odd little glimpse after a late goal, merely a flicker of the original flame, not even approaching those once every 5 years games, and just that flicker was worth it to me, honestly even though there's a bit of melancholy there. If I went to one of those magical games, and I will do one day, it will be a landmark experience in my little existence.


I think it's profoundly cynical to say that even that little bit isn't worth preserving. Imagine that we to ever achieve what everyone wants, there would be an outpouring of the very purest kind of magic from the kop and anfield which would be a religious experience for anyone involved. It's worth trying. It creates some semblance of continuity, however artificial you think it is. The rest is up to supporters.


And if you want to be all jaded about it, go all the way. There's a reason why the old revised plans have a big KOP sign on the side of the stadium. It's part of the brand, it sets us apart, it's a tourist attraction. And it doesn't cost much, because none of the plans are really a bowl, the stands are freestanding with a bowl roof.
 
New Liverpool FC stadium would include single-tier Kop

  • [li]EXCLUSIVE by Ian Doyle, The Liverpool Post[/li]
    [li]Jan 19 2012[/li]

LIVERPOOL FC will retain the backing of a single-tier Kop – even if they opt to build the proposed new 60,000-seater stadium on Stanley Park.
It emerged this week that the Anfield outfit had reverted to their original nine-year-old plans for a new ground after ditching those drawn up by previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.
The move has prompted fears among supporters that the initial designs from Manchester-based architects AFL seemingly left no provision for a new Kop stand behind one of the goals.
Under the now scrapped proposal by American firm HKS, rubber-stamped by Hicks and Gillett, a vast single-tier stand was the focal point of a futuristic 71,000-capacity stadium.
But the Post can reveal both Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group and AFL will ensure any new ground will retain a sizeable, unbroken Kop stand.
The AFL plans were first drawn up in 2003, and with planning permission granted by Liverpool City Council 12 months later, it means the club do not need another green light to proceed.
However, Liverpool have only been able to “tweak” the AFL designs to keep them inside the parameters set by the initial planning consent.
Liverpool have not ruled out the possibility of refurbishing Anfield, with principal owner John Henry having overseen a similar project with baseball team Boston Red Sox and their historic Fenway Park facility.
But the prohibitive cost and political issues have made a new build the favoured option, with AFL’s proposal costing in the region of £300 million of which half would be covered by naming rights.
 
With some decent changes and a bit of competent selling of the finalized design, this could end well. I mean, the roll outs for the last potential design have been amateurish at best, and people were excited, myself included.


We should just paper mache the whole stadium out of all the copy written in vain about it.

Build the fucker.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48335.msg1466390#msg1466390 date=1326951290]
'WAAAA WAAAA WAAA NO KOP WHAT A DISGRACE....'

Let's cut to the fucking chase here. Beyond (a few) European nights that we don't have cos we don't even fucking play there anymore, and 2 games a season against Everton and Man United - and even they're questionable - what atmosphere is generated out of the Kop these days anyway? Fuck. All.

The only justifiable reason for keeping the Kop is that we've always had one; not because it sets apart wins from draws and all that jazz. 'Magical nights' happen in it once every 5 years.

All this chat about a "generic by the numbers soulless bowl of a stadium' as if it's an affront to the team's support? Well, here's some news - the support inside Anfield is 'generic by the numbers soulless junk' these days anyway.

The Kop's nice, it would be nice to continue with it. But let's not reinvent it into something it's not. We used to be able to stand, we used to have a bootroom, we used to have an academy that produced wonderful players, we used to pass the batpon of ownership to the next Robin Hood in line.

The Kop used to be something to.
[/quote]

What if it only makes a difference once a season?

The clearest example of this I can recall was the CL QF against Arse a few years ago. I went the Emirates game and I didn't even know that Kuyt had fouled Hleb in the box until I got back to my hotel at 3 in the morning - where it was being hyped as the biggest talking point in the 1-1 draw. I didn't know because it was in the opposite corner and I hadn't heard a massive shout or anything. Next week at Anfield Hleb does the same thing to Babel. At that instant I couldn't even see or hear properly, it was like a bomb had gone off it was that loud. I didn't know if the stadium was shaking or my eyes were fucked but when senses returned to normal I could see the ref pointing at the spot, it was as if he didn't have a choice. That's anecdotal. What isn't is that all kinds of players and managers say that Anfield is the best place to come and play footy. Even Henry, Maureen, Viera, people who've won everything and have no links to the club.

The atmos at Anfield is shit most weeks, but it won't be for our next 2 home games, it will be electric against City and United. You won't know because you'll be on the other side of the planet doing an inferior Brendan impression on here. The debate really isn't for you, you're not involved, but if I only went the match to watch the football I'd have packed in a long time ago.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48335.msg1466412#msg1466412 date=1326962462]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48335.msg1466390#msg1466390 date=1326951290]
'WAAAA WAAAA WAAA NO KOP WHAT A DISGRACE....'

Let's cut to the fucking chase here. Beyond (a few) European nights that we don't have cos we don't even fucking play there anymore, and 2 games a season against Everton and Man United - and even they're questionable - what atmosphere is generated out of the Kop these days anyway? Fuck. All.

The only justifiable reason for keeping the Kop is that we've always had one; not because it sets apart wins from draws and all that jazz. 'Magical nights' happen in it once every 5 years.

All this chat about a "generic by the numbers soulless bowl of a stadium' as if it's an affront to the team's support? Well, here's some news - the support inside Anfield is 'generic by the numbers soulless junk' these days anyway.

The Kop's nice, it would be nice to continue with it. But let's not reinvent it into something it's not. We used to be able to stand, we used to have a bootroom, we used to have an academy that produced wonderful players, we used to pass the batpon of ownership to the next Robin Hood in line.

The Kop used to be something to.
[/quote]

What if it only makes a difference once a season?

The clearest example of this I can recall was the CL QF against Arse a few years ago. I went the Emirates game and I didn't even know that Kuyt had fouled Hleb in the box until I got back to my hotel at 3 in the morning - where it was being hyped as the biggest talking point in the 1-1 draw. I didn't know because it was in the opposite corner and I hadn't heard a massive shout or anything. Next week at Anfield Hleb does the same thing to Babel. At that instant I couldn't even see or hear properly, it was like a bomb had gone off it was that loud. I didn't know if the stadium was shaking or my eyes were fucked but when senses returned to normal I could see the ref pointing at the spot, it was as if he didn't have a choice. That's anecdotal. What isn't is that all kinds of players and managers say that Anfield is the best place to come and play footy. Even Henry, Maureen, Viera, people who've won everything and have no links to the club.

The atmos at Anfield is shit most weeks, but it won't be for our next 2 home games, it will be electric against City and United. You won't know because you'll be on the other side of the planet doing an inferior Brendan impression on here. The debate really isn't for you, you're not involved.
[/quote]

hahaha!

quite.

so, and i know this is a difficult one given our history, but what do people think about my yearning for a return to standing - just in principle? the difference between sitting in the Main Stand - and even the Kop, most games - and standing behind the goal at Craven Cottage shouting and singing for 90 minutes, bouncing along to the Lucas song (sorry mate, i know that's not one for you!) is just fucking massive.
 
No less inferior or irrelevant than you going to the game and pretending to a be a 'knowledgable passionate kopite' I suppose Krump.

My post was 95% devils advocacy, but then I guess you know that.
 
if I only went the match to watch the football I'd have packed in a long time ago

That sounds like a religious person would say, "Yeah it is more than football, it is the atmosphere!"
 
In the sense that I meet my mates and family there, watch a fairly predictable performance, accept that a higher power is making all the decisions, question why it is that I go, and then get drunk - then yeah, it's a lot more similar to going to church than any other activity I regularly bother with.
 
the atmosphere is shit these days but it doesn't need to be. for example they could arrange seating so people that want to sing are placed together, as someone who sits in the main stand when you attempt to start a song they look at you like 'the fuck?' so you pipe down.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466445#msg1466445 date=1326968158]
the atmosphere is shit these days but it doesn't need to be. for example they could arrange seating so people that want to sing are placed together, as someone who sits in the main stand when you attempt to start a song they look at you like 'the fuck?' so you pipe down.
[/quote]

They could call it block 305
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48335.msg1466447#msg1466447 date=1326968196]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466445#msg1466445 date=1326968158]
the atmosphere is shit these days but it doesn't need to be. for example they could arrange seating so people that want to sing are placed together, as someone who sits in the main stand when you attempt to start a song they look at you like 'the fuck?' so you pipe down.
[/quote]

They could call it block 305
[/quote]

I don't get it ???
 
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
 
Warrior Sports Inc. and Liverpool Football Club today announced a deal which sees Warrior become the Club's Official Kit Supplier.







Celebrating the announcement of the Partnership between Liverpool FC and Warrior Sports were (L to R): Richard Wright (General Manager, Football - Warrior Sports), Ian Ayre (Managing Director, Liverpool FC) and Ben Haworth (Sports Marketing Manager, Football - Warrior Sports).



The deal, which will come into play from June 1st 2012, will see Warrior create the Liverpool FC home, away and third kits, as well as their training wear for the next six years.

Owned by Boston based New Balance Athletic Shoe Inc., the move represents the starting point in Warrior Sports' global football journey partnering with one of the biggest club sides in the history of world football. Warrior Sports recognises the heritage of Liverpool FC and has employed industry experts in design, development, marketing and implementation to ensure that the brand has the best people on hand to support the Partnership.

Richard Wright, General Manager for Warrior Sports comments: "At Warrior Sports we pride ourselves on high performance and an incredible desire to win. Our Partnership with Liverpool FC, a football institution and recognised brand name across the world, is the perfect fit. Warrior Sports has ventured into football to bring our knowledge of making top level product to a new playing field. We are not the sort of brand that is going to keep our head down. We are here to shake up the world of football and our Partnership with one of the most successful club teams of all time is just the start."

Ian Ayre, Managing Director of Liverpool Football Club, added: "Liverpool FC is thrilled to be able to announce this fantastic Partnership with Warrior Sports for the 2012-2013 Barclays Premier League season onwards. This is another landmark deal for Liverpool Football Club and once again shows the value of the Club's brand globally. Warrior Sports will bring its own unique brand and ideas to the Partnership, ensuring that they can assist us at the Club both on and off the field of play. Sharing the same focus of domination and winning will be an incredibly important part of this Partnership going forward. As with all our Partnerships we have taken time to form a relationship with the individuals behind this opportunity. I believe that Warrior have some outstanding people we can work closely with to continue to deliver quality products to our fans around the world."
 
I don't go nuts at the match like I used to, but then I'm old. Priority for seats on the kop should be given to males under 30 who've had at least 6 pints of Stella or equivalent.

It's not a massive shock that away crowds are more lively. It's because it's gangs of young men who've been drinking and snorting all day.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

Jamo mustn't have gone.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

the crowd is supposed to inspire the team not vice verser but it doesn't work like that anymore unfortunately.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48335.msg1466455#msg1466455 date=1326968945]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

Jamo mustn't have gone.
[/quote]

Bahahahahahahahaahaaa, oh whatever happened to him?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466458#msg1466458 date=1326969184]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

the crowd is supposed to inspire the team not vice verser but it doesn't work like that anymore unfortunately.
[/quote]

You know people who moan about the atmosphere at the game always have the option to get off there arses once in a blue moon and do something about it.

EDIT: And I find the crowd/team relationship is fairly symbiotic at times for generating atmosphere.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48335.msg1466466#msg1466466 date=1326970275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466458#msg1466458 date=1326969184]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

the crowd is supposed to inspire the team not vice verser but it doesn't work like that anymore unfortunately.
[/quote]

You know people who moan about the atmosphere at the game always have the option to get off there arses once in a blue moon and do something about it.

EDIT: And I find the crowd/team relationship is fairly symbiotic at times for generating atmosphere.
[/quote]
it takes a braver man than me to start singing when everyone around you is giving you murderous glances.
obviously this doesn't include the manc and everton games. in my first season at anfield I was taken aback at the noise difference in these games. the crowd is like the team, getting themselves up for big games and then slipping back into mediocrity for everyone else.

when the new stadium is built and they are issuing new seating (as they'll have to) they could do worse then including a tick box of whether you want to be sat in an area where you are encouraged to sing.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48335.msg1466453#msg1466453 date=1326968697]
Warrior Sports Inc. and Liverpool Football Club today announced a deal which sees Warrior become the Club's Official Kit Supplier.

Celebrating the announcement of the Partnership between Liverpool FC and Warrior Sports were (L to R): Richard Wright (General Manager, Football - Warrior Sports), Ian Ayre (Managing Director, Liverpool FC) and Ben Haworth (Sports Marketing Manager, Football - Warrior Sports).

The deal, which will come into play from June 1st 2012, will see Warrior create the Liverpool FC home, away and third kits, as well as their training wear for the next six years.

Owned by Boston based New Balance Athletic Shoe Inc., the move represents the starting point in Warrior Sports' global football journey partnering with one of the biggest club sides in the history of world football. Warrior Sports recognises the heritage of Liverpool FC and has employed industry experts in design, development, marketing and implementation to ensure that the brand has the best people on hand to support the Partnership.

Richard Wright, General Manager for Warrior Sports comments: "At Warrior Sports we pride ourselves on high performance and an incredible desire to win. Our Partnership with Liverpool FC, a football institution and recognised brand name across the world, is the perfect fit. Warrior Sports has ventured into football to bring our knowledge of making top level product to a new playing field. We are not the sort of brand that is going to keep our head down. We are here to shake up the world of football and our Partnership with one of the most successful club teams of all time is just the start."

Ian Ayre, Managing Director of Liverpool Football Club, added: "Liverpool FC is thrilled to be able to announce this fantastic Partnership with Warrior Sports for the 2012-2013 Barclays Premier League season onwards. This is another landmark deal for Liverpool Football Club and once again shows the value of the Club's brand globally. Warrior Sports will bring its own unique brand and ideas to the Partnership, ensuring that they can assist us at the Club both on and off the field of play. Sharing the same focus of domination and winning will be an incredibly important part of this Partnership going forward. As with all our Partnerships we have taken time to form a relationship with the individuals behind this opportunity. I believe that Warrior have some outstanding people we can work closely with to continue to deliver quality products to our fans around the world."
[/quote]

Oh the deals worth 150 Million, how does it compare to our last deal?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466481#msg1466481 date=1326971547]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48335.msg1466466#msg1466466 date=1326970275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466458#msg1466458 date=1326969184]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

the crowd is supposed to inspire the team not vice verser but it doesn't work like that anymore unfortunately.
[/quote]

You know people who moan about the atmosphere at the game always have the option to get off there arses once in a blue moon and do something about it.

EDIT: And I find the crowd/team relationship is fairly symbiotic at times for generating atmosphere.
[/quote]
it takes a braver man than me to start singing when everyone around you is giving you murderous glances.
obviously this doesn't include the manc and everton games. in my first season at anfield I was taken aback at the noise difference in these games. the crowd is like the team, getting themselves up for big games and then slipping back into mediocrity for everyone else.

when the new stadium is built and they are issuing new seating (as they'll have to) they could do worse then including a tick box of whether you want to be sat in an area where you are encouraged to sing.
[/quote]
I didn't realise you were a player Neil!
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=48335.msg1466608#msg1466608 date=1326980369]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466481#msg1466481 date=1326971547]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48335.msg1466466#msg1466466 date=1326970275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48335.msg1466458#msg1466458 date=1326969184]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48335.msg1466451#msg1466451 date=1326968639]
Despite the best efforts of a few, even 305 weren't singing for long on Saturday
[/quote]

the crowd is supposed to inspire the team not vice verser but it doesn't work like that anymore unfortunately.
[/quote]

You know people who moan about the atmosphere at the game always have the option to get off there arses once in a blue moon and do something about it.

EDIT: And I find the crowd/team relationship is fairly symbiotic at times for generating atmosphere.
[/quote]
it takes a braver man than me to start singing when everyone around you is giving you murderous glances.
obviously this doesn't include the manc and everton games. in my first season at anfield I was taken aback at the noise difference in these games. the crowd is like the team, getting themselves up for big games and then slipping back into mediocrity for everyone else.

when the new stadium is built and they are issuing new seating (as they'll have to) they could do worse then including a tick box of whether you want to be sat in an area where you are encouraged to sing.
[/quote]
I didn't realise you were a player Neil!
[/quote]

I'm not saying which one 😉
 
The campaign for safe standing areas to be incorporated into top-level football grounds has received a major boost, after Aston Villa said they are examining introducing a standing section at Villa Park.

Paul Faulkner, Villa's chief executive, told a supporters' consultation group that he recognises fans want to stand, that safe standing areas could help improve the match atmosphere, allow for some cheaper ticket prices, and therefore attract younger supporters currently priced out by the cost of seats.

Faulkner has met the Football Supporters' Federation, which has long campaigned for a relaxation of the law compulsory requiring clubs in the top two divisions to have all-seating in their grounds.

Villa have become the first Premier League club to break publicly with the orthodoxy which has lasted two decades, that standing is too associated with football's bleak period in the 1980s ever to return.

Lord Justice Taylor recommended compulsory all-seating for all football grounds, later confined to the top two divisions, in his final report after the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster. His recommendation was opposed by the then Football Supporters Association, which pointed out that terracing itself had not been a cause of the disaster, which happened due to mismanagement of the FA Cup semi-final crowd by the South Yorkshire police, Sheffield Wednesday's negligently unsafe ground, and the fences at the front of the Leppings Lane terrace.

The FSA argued that grounds, including standing areas, should be made safe, and that if seating was made compulsory, the clubs would raise prices so substantially that long-standing supporters would be priced out.

Taylor rejected that, saying: "It should be possible to plan a price structure which suits the cheapest seats to the pockets of those at present paying to stand," citing the cost of standing at Rangers' Ibrox ground then, of £4. With cumulative inflation of 77.1% since, the price of that ticket at the beginning of this season would have been £7. Yet prices at the bigger Premier League clubs mostly start at a minimum £30 and go much higher than that. At Liverpool, whose supporters were the victims at Hillsborough, standing on the Kop cost £4 in 1989-90; the price for a seat this season at category A games is £45.

Politicians have been reluctant even to discuss standing at football, because of the association with Hillsborough, but last year the sports minister, Hugh Robertson, said he would look at the issue if presented with overwhelming agreement by the police and safety authorities. That remains a long way off, but the argument has shifted, with the authorities no longer able to argue that standing is in itself unsafe.

Awareness has grown of the standing areas in the German Bundesliga, between rails spaced closely enough to make a large crush physically impossible. The FSF points to the safety risk at Premier League grounds now, where many fans stand throughout matches, in seated areas not designed to accommodate standing.

One entrepreneurial supporter, Jon Darch, has been visiting clubs in the Championship, Premier League and Scotland with a sample Bundesliga-style rail structure, and says he has had an "enthusiastic response" from all clubs. The Liberal Democrat MP Don Foster, who has introduced a private members bill to remove the standing prohibition, is planning to bring Darch's exhibition to Parliament shortly.

Seating has never been compulsory in Scottish football, and last month the Scottish Premier League positively invited applications from clubs to introduce safe standing areas. All the SPL clubs, including Celtic and Rangers, have been positive about doing so, with Neil Doncaster, the SPL chief executive, saying: "I do expect to receive applications, including from Celtic and Rangers, as early as this summer, and the rail system has the most chance of being approved."

Peter Daykin, of the FSF, pointed to St Helens opening a new stadium for this 2012 Super League season, incorporating large standing areas, and said: "We hope football's status as a pariah sport is coming to an end. Our members have always been overwhelmingly in favour of safe standing areas."

A Premier League spokesman said it remains the league's position that stadiums should be all-seat, in line with government policy. "If Aston Villa want to explore safe standing and bring it forward as an issue, we welcome the debate around the table," he said.
 
I started singing about five or six times on sat, and bar one fella a few rows away who gladly joined in each time only one song got started off. Still, one more than otherwise.

I have no shame in it, I lost my game at starting songs when I was about 13, though of course it was easier when there was a gang of four or five of us.

Sitting down makes it harder to sing though, much harder to get a song started sat on your arse.
 
397930_10150471038046524_75738436523_8399334_336507855_n.jpg
 
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