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Masherano's replacement

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I somehow get the impression that any player mentioned in this thread will be,

a) A non starter
b) Too expensive
c) Too old
d) Shit


What's the point?
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41162.msg1143969#msg1143969 date=1280318028]
Huddlestone is a brilliant passer of the ball, and after they banned Jaffa cakes at the lunchroom at WHL he actually looks like a footballer.
[/quote]

But he's no DM, despite his size. Brendan's right about his tackling. The guy's a luxury player and that's something we can't afford, in any sense of the word.
 
Defour is 22 and wont be too much, well a good bit less than we rake in for Mash.
Ditto Banega, especially if there is that release clause of £8.5mil in his contract. He's quite young too.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41162.msg1143983#msg1143983 date=1280318979]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41162.msg1143950#msg1143950 date=1280316598]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=41162.msg1143945#msg1143945 date=1280315839]
I'd go fo Banega and he's probably our best option for under 10 million.
[/quote]

They paid 18M Euros for him.
[/quote]

Strange. There was talk of an 8.5mil release clause.
[/quote]

Ha, well one our figures is complete bollocks.

I'd be surprised if there was a release clause so low though. With their financial difficulty, reluctance to let Villa leave and the webcam saga, Valencia were *desperate* to get rid of Benaga before last season, even trying to force him to Everton on loan.

Given his natural talent and the amount of clubs linked to him over the last few years, I'd be amazed if it proved he was always available at £8.5M
 
Banega's had plenty of issues at Valencia but it has nothing to do with his ability.

We follow up with a concrete offer and we can definately get our man. Spanish teams have crazy evaluation clauses. Wasn't Pennant recently valued at about 20+ million?
 
What's an 'evaluation cause'? Do they give him a psychametric test and an interview each year to see how he's progressing?

Or perhaps they just google 'Benega masturbating' and if there's no new material since the previous year then it represents progress.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1143955#msg1143955 date=1280316958]
I wonder how much we could get that big slow teddy bear Huddlestone for. He looks a player these days.
[/quote]

Huddlestone? I detest him and I don´t even know why.
 
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=41162.msg1144021#msg1144021 date=1280323630]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1143955#msg1143955 date=1280316958]
I wonder how much we could get that big slow teddy bear Huddlestone for. He looks a player these days.
[/quote]

Huddlestone? I detest him and I don´t even know why.
[/quote]Doesn't matter. Squiggles has put the kibosh on that one already. Not gonna happen. Don't shoot the messenger.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1144022#msg1144022 date=1280323720]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=41162.msg1144021#msg1144021 date=1280323630]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1143955#msg1143955 date=1280316958]
I wonder how much we could get that big slow teddy bear Huddlestone for. He looks a player these days.
[/quote]

Huddlestone? I detest him and I don´t even know why.
[/quote]Doesn't matter. Squiggles has put the kibosh on that one already. Not gonna happen. Don't shoot the messenger.
[/quote]

Thanks Squiggles!

Can he sell Insua, Degen, N´gog and Lucas aswell?
 
Christian Poulsen as backup and one of Flamini or Khedira as starters.

Anyone remember the name of the Benfica dm? He was tough and quite decent too. Perhaps a bit Old.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1143927#msg1143927 date=1280314680]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41162.msg1143926#msg1143926 date=1280314598]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41162.msg1143923#msg1143923 date=1280314520]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41162.msg1143920#msg1143920 date=1280314390]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41162.msg1143887#msg1143887 date=1280311614]
West Ham have confirmed that they have turned down an offer from Spurs for Scott Parker, and say that he is not for sale at any price
[/quote]

He has said he wants to talk to us though, if we make a bid.
[/quote]Where?
[/quote]

It was in an article I read, I'll see if I can find it.
[/quote]I would be very suprised if he's quoted saying that. *prepares to be surprised*
[/quote]

As far as rebuffing transfer enquiries go, the porno man at West Ham has done an exemplary job today regarding Parker - no transfer at any cost, under any circumstances, no way, no how.

I would love Roy to put 10m on the table for Parker, and 80k 4yr contract, and for Parker to put in a belligerent transfer request, and state that he'll never play for the club again. Love it.






As it is I'd settle for Defour and Poulsen.
 
[quote author=H link=topic=41162.msg1144067#msg1144067 date=1280328327]
you want us to be paying scott parker 80k when he's 34 years old??
[/quote]

"Hi Scott" *bats eyelids* "we realise West Ham are currently negotiating a 5 year deal with you, but how would you feel about a 2 year deal on less than youre on now? Stick it where? Oh..."
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=41162.msg1144077#msg1144077 date=1280328769]
[quote author=H link=topic=41162.msg1144067#msg1144067 date=1280328327]
you want us to be paying scott parker 80k when he's 34 years old??
[/quote]

"Hi Scott" *bats eyelids* "we realise West Ham are currently negotiating a 5 year deal with you, but how would you feel about a 2 year deal on less than youre on now? Stick it where? Oh..."
[/quote]

Indeed. So the best solution is to look for a younger player.

Signing Parker for 10M on massive wages would be irresponsible management.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=41162.msg1144082#msg1144082 date=1280328969]
Danny Murphy.

Seriously though, i reckon he'll buy English and experienced in the Parker mould.
[/quote]

Murphy wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, but hasn't Roy agreed not to come in for Fulham players?
 
Any of these four would probably be 'ok':

Cambiasso p/ex with Masch deal
Veloso (Sporting) - 10 million
Cattermole (Sunderland) - 8 million (He is a decent player, could do the job)
Flamini
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=41162.msg1144095#msg1144095 date=1280330619]
Any of these four would probably be 'ok':

Cambiasso p/ex with Masch deal 1
Veloso (Sporting) - 10 million 3
Cattermole (Sunderland) - 8 million (He is a decent player, could do the job) 4
Flamini 2
[/quote]
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41162.msg1144107#msg1144107 date=1280332983]
If Spurs want Parker what's happening with Palacios?
[/quote]

Maybe moving on? He struggled to get back into the side at the backend of last season as Modric (of all players) was excelling in the holding role. That goes to show that you don't have to have a Masher type in there. Maybe we should be looking for a "better" ball-player who can tackle a bit rather than the other way around.
 
I doubt they'll keep Modric holding. He can do that job, but my bet is that they'll want him to ply his trade further forward. Parker's not an out-and-out DM either. My guess is Palacios will get his place back, at least some of the time - though, if he doesn't, I'd be tempted to track him and go for him in January as I reckon he's an excellent player and he can clearly cut it in the Prem. He can play a bit too.

On the question whether we should look for a ball-player who can tackle a bit, I'd say that would be premature. We've got quite a job on our hands repairing the form and confidence of our squad. I'd prefer a more conventional DM type until that process is further advanced.
 
Will Masch Be Missed? Not So Much...
Posted 27/07/10 11:29EmailPrintSave



It is as predictable as it is amusing. As soon as it looks almost certain that Javier Mascherano will leave Liverpool, Reds fans - like dumped 14-year-old girls - are racing to say that they never really liked him anyway. Apparently he's a liability, cannot pass, contributes nothing and Lucas Leiva can do exactly the same job for less money. Of course, they never, ever thought he was the best defensive midfielder in the world. Oh no.


This syndrome is not particular to Liverpool fans. The same Manchester United fans who sang "Fergie, Fergie, sign him up" were decrying Carlos Tevez as a rich man's Dirk Kuyt as soon as he joined Manchester City. Those Gunners who were heralding Emmanuel Adebayor as the equal of Didier Drogba were apparently happy to see his lazy arse head north towards Manchester.


But in the case of Mascherano, the statistics would appear to back those Liverpool fans happy to make a profit on the Argentine hatchet man. Over the last three years, Liverpool have won 54% of the Premier League games in which he has featured. Without him, their success rate rises to 65%. Predictably, Liverpool have scored significantly more goals per game (2.25 v 1.88) without a player who has netted just one league goal in Liverpool colours.


That Mascherano is not a match-winner is no surprise, but the real shock lies in the statistic that although Liverpool concede fewer goals with him screening the defence, they have lost 19% of the Premier League games in which he has played, as opposed to 4% without him. That suggests a significant number of 1-0 defeats in which Mascherano offered little or nothing going forward.


His supporters might point to the statistic that Mascherano completed more tackles in the Premier League than any other player last season, but the very fact that the second player on that list is the utterly-unheralded Wigan midfielder Mohamed Diame negates that claim. As does the fact that Mascherano had the worst disciplinary record of any player in the top flight. He certainly makes tackles, but he mistimes enough for it to be a problem.


This is not to say that revisionist Liverpool fans are right and Mascherano is overrated. Anyone with half a brain can watch Mascherano against European giants in the Champions League and see where his real value lies. But with Liverpool not in the Champions League, and Inter apparently willing to offer £25m for a player whose impact in the Premier League is statistically negative, it makes perfect sense to cash in now on a footballer clearly not happy on Merseyside.


That kind of money is massive for a spoiler whose real value is only apparent against the kind of quality opposition Liverpool will face fewer times next season. He can be adequately replaced for less than half the price. He may be sorely missed against Manchester United and Chelsea, but he will certainly not be missed against Wigan or Wolves. In those games, Scott Parker or an equivalently-talented and priced alternative would be at least as effective.


Mascherano's absence will be felt by those neutrals who appreciate a tough tackler as much as a tricky winger and I would still happily argue that he is one of the world's best exponents of that role. But with big money on the table that could buy three or four players, it's a no-brainer to let the match-spoiler go if the alternative is selling match-winners or match-savers like Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard or Pepe Reina.


Sarah Winterburn
Click to expand...
 
Palacios is a fine footballer, but I doubt we have much of a chance of getting him.

Not for less than £20M anyway.

I'd forgotten about Velloso at Sporting. Haven't seen him for a while but he always looked a decent prospect.
 
If he goes to Barca how about getting Busquets as part exchange? He had a very good world cup and hes only 21 or something. Other than that i'd like Lassana Diarra.
 
[quote author=barrymac20 link=topic=41162.msg1144118#msg1144118 date=1280334712]
If he goes to Barca how about getting Busquets as part exchange? He had a very good world cup and hes only 21 or something. Other than that i'd like Lassana Diarra.
[/quote]


Theres no way Barca would let Biscuits go. We'd have a better chance of getting Keita!
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41162.msg1144116#msg1144116 date=1280334595]
Will Masch Be Missed? Not So Much...
Posted 27/07/10 11:29EmailPrintSave



It is as predictable as it is amusing. As soon as it looks almost certain that Javier Mascherano will leave Liverpool, Reds fans - like dumped 14-year-old girls - are racing to say that they never really liked him anyway. Apparently he's a liability, cannot pass, contributes nothing and Lucas Leiva can do exactly the same job for less money. Of course, they never, ever thought he was the best defensive midfielder in the world. Oh no.


This syndrome is not particular to Liverpool fans. The same Manchester United fans who sang "Fergie, Fergie, sign him up" were decrying Carlos Tevez as a rich man's Dirk Kuyt as soon as he joined Manchester City. Those Gunners who were heralding Emmanuel Adebayor as the equal of Didier Drogba were apparently happy to see his lazy arse head north towards Manchester.


But in the case of Mascherano, the statistics would appear to back those Liverpool fans happy to make a profit on the Argentine hatchet man. Over the last three years, Liverpool have won 54% of the Premier League games in which he has featured. Without him, their success rate rises to 65%. Predictably, Liverpool have scored significantly more goals per game (2.25 v 1.88) without a player who has netted just one league goal in Liverpool colours.


That Mascherano is not a match-winner is no surprise, but the real shock lies in the statistic that although Liverpool concede fewer goals with him screening the defence, they have lost 19% of the Premier League games in which he has played, as opposed to 4% without him. That suggests a significant number of 1-0 defeats in which Mascherano offered little or nothing going forward.


His supporters might point to the statistic that Mascherano completed more tackles in the Premier League than any other player last season, but the very fact that the second player on that list is the utterly-unheralded Wigan midfielder Mohamed Diame negates that claim. As does the fact that Mascherano had the worst disciplinary record of any player in the top flight. He certainly makes tackles, but he mistimes enough for it to be a problem.


This is not to say that revisionist Liverpool fans are right and Mascherano is overrated. Anyone with half a brain can watch Mascherano against European giants in the Champions League and see where his real value lies. But with Liverpool not in the Champions League, and Inter apparently willing to offer £25m for a player whose impact in the Premier League is statistically negative, it makes perfect sense to cash in now on a footballer clearly not happy on Merseyside.


That kind of money is massive for a spoiler whose real value is only apparent against the kind of quality opposition Liverpool will face fewer times next season. He can be adequately replaced for less than half the price. He may be sorely missed against Manchester United and Chelsea, but he will certainly not be missed against Wigan or Wolves. In those games, Scott Parker or an equivalently-talented and priced alternative would be at least as effective.


Mascherano's absence will be felt by those neutrals who appreciate a tough tackler as much as a tricky winger and I would still happily argue that he is one of the world's best exponents of that role. But with big money on the table that could buy three or four players, it's a no-brainer to let the match-spoiler go if the alternative is selling match-winners or match-savers like Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard or Pepe Reina.


Sarah Winterburn
Click to expand...
[/quote]

So that's what Nigel Winterburn does at weekends. 😉

It's a good post, despite the fact that it forgets or neglects to take into account the games against the other top teams in the Prem, games we still have to win to get back up there with them. It wasn't just in the CL that Masher was invaluable. Some "only".
 
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