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Mascherano to Juve?

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[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36371.msg960809#msg960809 date=1255231673]
I find some of the Masher supporters a bit patronising sometimes, although I'm sure they don't mean to be.

I appreciate the role of the defensive midfielder, I grew up watching Didi master the field in his own way and was hugely impressed by what I saw, so I don't need to be told what the DM brings to a side. There are some big games where you watch him and you think he's irreplaceable (heh, although I used to think the same of Sissoko). But the thing with Mascherano is I find him too specialised for our side; for his country he's surrounded by gifted, creative ball players, as he would be if it went to Barcelona. Here, now Alonso is gone, he isn't, and it's really hurting us - and as a result, Lucas takes a lot of unfair flack simply because of Javier's limitations.

He can't dribble, pass, dictate play, etc - key attributes for any midfielder to have, whatever their role.

In certain key games he's great. Against the shite teams at Anfield who come and park a bus, I find his automatic selection a bit frustrating. So all that coupled with his desire to leave, his diving, whiny nature, means I won't be sad to see him go; especially not for a cool £30M

[/quote]He hasnt played the home games against the shite this year Squig. Hes been dropped for benayoun.
I hope we sell him. I love him, he's one of my favourite players at Anfield, but ive no time for moaners and wantaways. If he isnt REALLY in it, then he wants jogging on.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=36371.msg960846#msg960846 date=1255252154]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36371.msg960822#msg960822 date=1255243249]
Whoah, hold up one second.

Lucas takes a lot of unfair flack because Masher is one-dimensional as fuck... and less so because he himself is just as one-dimensional (only poor on top of it)?

[/quote]

I'm not Lucas biggest fan, but he is far from one-dimensional IMO, & I dont think he's poor either.
[/quote]

Expound on that.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36371.msg960845#msg960845 date=1255251860]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36371.msg960844#msg960844 date=1255251551]
When things go wrong, Lucas gets blamed. [/quote]

Just substitute Lucas for Benyoun last year, or for Babel (rightly or wrongly) ... or Kuyt for a few months last year (**raises hand**) ... We all find a player to blame one way or another.
[/quote]

True, but Masher? I've not heard much flack come his way, infact Lucas still bore the brunt of it, despite Masher being partly at fault for one of the goals at the Bridge.

Rage is just a repetitive boring cunt who only posts when there's ample opportunity (or even if there isn't) to put the boot into Rafa or Lucas. He's the scourge of this forum.
 
The report that claims he 'became' disillusioned after Alonso left is plainly nonsense because Mascher tried to leave before Alonso left. The more pertinent fact is that most of the press pack were astonished during Mascher's first and second seasons by how passionate he seemed about the club - they really were taken aback - and now that attitude has changed. That attitude doesn't vanish just because a player goes, or a formation changes, or the results aren't good. It goes because Mascher has had his head turned. Same result, of course, but this 'poor Mascher misses Xabi' crap doesn't deserve being tolerated, any more than the kind of maudlin nonsense that accompanied Xabi's departure.
 
The only reason I'd be inclined to sell Mascher, is as Macca says, because his head has been turned.
Barcelonas chase this summer seems to have messed up his head, and it's affecting his game.

It looks like his passion is gone, an his drive and involvement in games hasn't been the same.

If we start accepting bids, then Barca will be back in for him. If so, a deal including Yaya Tore would be excellent.

I do hope however that he can find his feet again, but I dobut it..
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36371.msg960875#msg960875 date=1255256123]
I know who I'll be blaming for this if it happens.
[/quote]

rage? or lucas?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36371.msg960860#msg960860 date=1255253419]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36371.msg960845#msg960845 date=1255251860]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36371.msg960844#msg960844 date=1255251551]
When things go wrong, Lucas gets blamed. [/quote]

Just substitute Lucas for Benyoun last year, or for Babel (rightly or wrongly) ... or Kuyt for a few months last year (**raises hand**) ... We all find a player to blame one way or another.
[/quote]

True, but Masher? I've not heard much flack come his way, infact Lucas still bore the brunt of it, despite Masher being partly at fault for one of the goals at the Bridge.

Rage is just a repetitive boring cunt who only posts when there's ample opportunity (or even if there isn't) to put the boot into Rafa or Lucas. He's the scourge of this forum.
[/quote]

ample indeed this season.

why is it shit players don't want to leave? doseena, lucas, degen, voronin immediately spring to mind.

masch is more than good enough to play for us but some seem to be rounding on him because he has been not his usual best for the handful of games he's played. yet when i reflect on our awful start its the 'early days' and 'can't read too much into it' response.

hypocritical i think
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36371.msg960877#msg960877 date=1255256305]
why is it shit players don't want to leave? doseena, lucas, degen, voronin immediately spring to mind.

[/quote]

It's rage's Socratic syllogism, folks. Players who don't want to leave are shit. Thus Babel is brilliant. Voronin - who wanted to leave before, is merely average. Gerrard, Torres, Carragher, Agger, Kuyt, Benayoun, Johnson, Reina - don't want to leave, thus 'shit'. This idiot gets more stupid with each breath.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36371.msg960879#msg960879 date=1255256904]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36371.msg960877#msg960877 date=1255256305]
why is it shit players don't want to leave? doseena, lucas, degen, voronin immediately spring to mind.

[/quote]

It's rage's Socratic syllogism, folks. Players who don't want to leave are shit. Thus Babel is brilliant. Voronin - who wanted to leave before, is merely average. Gerrard, Torres, Carragher, Agger, Kuyt, Benayoun, Johnson, Reina - don't want to leave, thus 'shit'. This idiot gets more stupid with each breath.
[/quote]

u can try to expand what said to mean something else all you want.

people like you try to confuse the truth by expanding it to include untruths so that it makes it easier for you to hide behind.

where did i say for example torres was shit?

masch is an exceptional player, even if he is interested in a move we should be trying to keep hold of him and doing more and trying harder to offload others. what part of that is difficult to understand even if you disagree with it?
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36371.msg960882#msg960882 date=1255257764]
u can try to expand what said to mean something else all you want.

people like you try to confuse the truth by expanding it to include untruths so that it makes it easier for you to hide behind.

where did i say for example torres was shit?


[/quote]

All you're demonstrating is your inability to think things through. Keep digging.
 
better than sucking.

if we lose masch either in january or the summer it will be a massive step backwards. if rafa sold torres people like you would find a positive spin on it.

if anything i'd like to see another exceptional defensive midfielder next to masch, this would mean our front 4 and our fullbacks could really destroy the opposition.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36371.msg960887#msg960887 date=1255258228]
better than sucking.

.
[/quote]

Seriously, sonny, you need to think about this gay obsession you have. It's very sad, and you're embarrassing yourself.
 
Masher just needs someone extremely talented alongside him.

My point is had he not been so 'limited'/'specialised' this year we wouldn''t have missed Alonso so much and our midfield would function more effectively. Maybe unfair criticism wasn't the right word but there should would be less onus on him to produce something. Like I said in the Didi thread, you could put Didi alongside anyone, against any opposition, and he would shine. I don't think that's true of Javier.

My only hope is him and Aquilani 'click', at least until the end of season.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960792#msg960792 date=1255215117]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960756#msg960756 date=1255205715]
If Mascher insists on going, then so be it - screw as much as we can out of the buying club and get the deal done. Some of you lot are a damn sight less bothered about losing him than I am though. Would Yaya Toure have pocketed Kaka like Mascher did in Athens, before Rafa made the mistake of his life and took Mascher off? Would Toure have monstered ManUre's midfield like Mascher did at Anfield? Would he feck. Mascher will be at least as tough to replace as Xabi, quite possibly more so.
[/quote]

Look, I love Mascher and I'm gutted it looks like he wants to leave but to say that Toure wouldn't be a worthy replacement is just myopic as fuck.

Would Macherano have been able to play at centre-back against Man U in a Champions League final and totally hold it down ?

Nope.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's a total red herring. If we lost one of our CBs there would be two others waiting to step in. As it happens Mascher's filled in - extremely well - at RB for us before now, but that's not the point. The point is that Toure - decent player though he certainly is - is not in Mascher's class as a DM. Lose Mascher, for Toure or whoever else, and others will have to take on some of the defensive stuff instead of concentrating on what they do best.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960891#msg960891 date=1255260013]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960792#msg960792 date=1255215117]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960756#msg960756 date=1255205715]
If Mascher insists on going, then so be it - screw as much as we can out of the buying club and get the deal done. Some of you lot are a damn sight less bothered about losing him than I am though. Would Yaya Toure have pocketed Kaka like Mascher did in Athens, before Rafa made the mistake of his life and took Mascher off? Would Toure have monstered ManUre's midfield like Mascher did at Anfield? Would he feck. Mascher will be at least as tough to replace as Xabi, quite possibly more so.
[/quote]

Look, I love Mascher and I'm gutted it looks like he wants to leave but to say that Toure wouldn't be a worthy replacement is just myopic as fuck.

Would Macherano have been able to play at centre-back against Man U in a Champions League final and totally hold it down ?

Nope.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's a total red herring. If we lost one of our CBs there would be two others waiting to step in. As it happens Mascher's filled in - extremely well - at RB for us before now, but that's not the point. The point is that Toure - decent player though he certainly is - is not in Mascher's class as a DM. Lose Mascher, for Toure or whoever else, and others will have to take on some of the defensive stuff instead of concentrating on what they do best.
[/quote]

Toure not in Mascher's class ?

That's crazy talk.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36371.msg960890#msg960890 date=1255259373]
Masher just needs someone extremely talented alongside him.

My point is had he not been so 'limited'/'specialised' this year we wouldn''t have missed Alonso so much and our midfield would function more effectively. Maybe unfair criticism wasn't the right word but there should would be less onus on him to produce something. Like I said in the Didi thread, you could put Didi alongside anyone, against any opposition, and he would shine. I don't think that's true of Javier.
[/quote]

Heh, the Didi thread that was started with no agenda in mind?

Anyways, we'd have won the title last season with Ronaldo in our side. The world would be a better place to live in if we could all find peace. What sort of point am I making?

There are very few world class midfielders available to sign, evidenced by the fact that Real were so desperate to sign Alonso and that more than a couple want Masher. In the last couple years we have always kinda poo pooed other teams midfield (maybe aside from Chelsea) because ours was so strong. Yes, Alonso and Masher needed each other and it was always said that in an ideal world, they'd have more of each others qualities so that we didn't need to play them both, but we're not living in an ideal world. The point.. the point is that player isn't really out there that is a mixture of the two.

We had to let go of Alonso, which broke up the partnership, exposed Mashers flaws a bit more and the teams as a whole, so what's the solution? We sell another top class midfielder leaving us with two gaping holes to fill?

Yeah, that's real brilliant that is. What about this as a better idea - instead of playing cardboard cutouts of footballers alongside our top talent, we enable them to shine. So yeah, hopefully Aquilani and Masher can "click".
 
"the Argentine has become disillusioned with the Merseyside club since the summer departure of Xabi Alonso"

You lying fucker!
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36371.msg960809#msg960809 date=1255231673]
I find some of the Masher supporters a bit patronising sometimes, although I'm sure they don't mean to be.

I appreciate the role of the defensive midfielder, I grew up watching Didi master the field in his own way and was hugely impressed by what I saw, so I don't need to be told what the DM brings to a side. There are some big games where you watch him and you think he's irreplaceable (heh, although I used to think the same of Sissoko). But the thing with Mascherano is I find him too specialised for our side; for his country he's surrounded by gifted, creative ball players, as he would be if it went to Barcelona. Here, now Alonso is gone, he isn't, and it's really hurting us - and as a result, Lucas takes a lot of unfair flack simply because of Javier's limitations.

He can't dribble, pass, dictate play, etc - key attributes for any midfielder to have, whatever their role.

In certain key games he's great. Against the shite teams at Anfield who come and park a bus, I find his automatic selection a bit frustrating. So all that coupled with his desire to leave, his diving, whiny nature, means I won't be sad to see him go; especially not for a cool £30M

[/quote]

Squiggs, you're a bright guy and I normally rate your posts, even if don't agree with them, but I'm afraid "patronising" is a word that quite often springs to mind when I read them, so maybe that's your own conscience talking.

As for Mascher himself, by concentrating on what he does best he frees the others around him to do their thing. He's no more responsible for Lucas' inability to step into Alonso's shoes than Lucas is for what Mascher doesn't do, and you skate very lightly over those big games in which Mascher's been vital for us, without attempting to explain how you see us making up for his absence from them in the future. More generally, Mascher wasn't exactly "surrounded by gifted, creative ball players" in our side even before Alonso went, but was still an integral part of the system which saw us playing the best football in the league in the latter part of last season. £30 mill.would be nice if he does go (though goodness knows if Rafa will get to spend it on players) but it will be no more than a fair price.
 
IF there's is any truth in these rumours we could end up beeing well and truely exposed in our defensive midfield.

Juve's spoiled with central midfielders these days so they'd probably try and offer Christian Poulsen as a part of the deal (if there were any truth in those rumours during the Summer).

Poulsen would not be a perfect sub for Masher as he isn't covering anywhere near as much ground. He has however played very well so far this Season for Juve and Denmark so maybe he woulnd't be that bad alongside a player like Aquilani.

That said I'll keep my fingers crossed Masher stays.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960893#msg960893 date=1255260280]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960891#msg960891 date=1255260013]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960792#msg960792 date=1255215117]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960756#msg960756 date=1255205715]
If Mascher insists on going, then so be it - screw as much as we can out of the buying club and get the deal done. Some of you lot are a damn sight less bothered about losing him than I am though. Would Yaya Toure have pocketed Kaka like Mascher did in Athens, before Rafa made the mistake of his life and took Mascher off? Would Toure have monstered ManUre's midfield like Mascher did at Anfield? Would he feck. Mascher will be at least as tough to replace as Xabi, quite possibly more so.
[/quote]

Look, I love Mascher and I'm gutted it looks like he wants to leave but to say that Toure wouldn't be a worthy replacement is just myopic as fuck.

Would Macherano have been able to play at centre-back against Man U in a Champions League final and totally hold it down ?

Nope.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's a total red herring. If we lost one of our CBs there would be two others waiting to step in. As it happens Mascher's filled in - extremely well - at RB for us before now, but that's not the point. The point is that Toure - decent player though he certainly is - is not in Mascher's class as a DM. Lose Mascher, for Toure or whoever else, and others will have to take on some of the defensive stuff instead of concentrating on what they do best.
[/quote]

Toure not in Mascher's class ?

That's crazy talk.
[/quote]

Not as a DM, no. He has more strings to his bow overall, but he's not as good at any particular one as Mascher is at the defensive rough stuff.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960900#msg960900 date=1255261404]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960893#msg960893 date=1255260280]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960891#msg960891 date=1255260013]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960792#msg960792 date=1255215117]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36371.msg960756#msg960756 date=1255205715]
If Mascher insists on going, then so be it - screw as much as we can out of the buying club and get the deal done. Some of you lot are a damn sight less bothered about losing him than I am though. Would Yaya Toure have pocketed Kaka like Mascher did in Athens, before Rafa made the mistake of his life and took Mascher off? Would Toure have monstered ManUre's midfield like Mascher did at Anfield? Would he feck. Mascher will be at least as tough to replace as Xabi, quite possibly more so.
[/quote]

Look, I love Mascher and I'm gutted it looks like he wants to leave but to say that Toure wouldn't be a worthy replacement is just myopic as fuck.

Would Macherano have been able to play at centre-back against Man U in a Champions League final and totally hold it down ?

Nope.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's a total red herring. If we lost one of our CBs there would be two others waiting to step in. As it happens Mascher's filled in - extremely well - at RB for us before now, but that's not the point. The point is that Toure - decent player though he certainly is - is not in Mascher's class as a DM. Lose Mascher, for Toure or whoever else, and others will have to take on some of the defensive stuff instead of concentrating on what they do best.
[/quote]

Toure not in Mascher's class ?

That's crazy talk.
[/quote]

Not as a DM, no. He has more strings to his bow overall, but he's not as good at any particular one as Mascher is at the defensive rough stuff.
[/quote]

Hmm...maybe so but I see Toure as Momo without the random/rubbish brain farts.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960914#msg960914 date=1255264581]
I do.

I want harsichord recitals from my DM.
[/quote]Is that the Bosnian kid?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960916#msg960916 date=1255264885]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960914#msg960914 date=1255264581]
I do.

I want harsichord recitals from my DM.
[/quote]Is that the Bosnian kid?
[/quote]

There's a child from Bosnia that plays harpsichord to concert standard and is a master destroyer ?
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960917#msg960917 date=1255265258]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960916#msg960916 date=1255264885]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960914#msg960914 date=1255264581]
I do.

I want harsichord recitals from my DM.
[/quote]Is that the Bosnian kid?
[/quote]

There's a child from Bosnia that plays harpsichord to concert standard and is a master destroyer ?
[/quote]*walks off*
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960918#msg960918 date=1255265329]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960917#msg960917 date=1255265258]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960916#msg960916 date=1255264885]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960914#msg960914 date=1255264581]
I do.

I want harsichord recitals from my DM.
[/quote]Is that the Bosnian kid?
[/quote]

There's a child from Bosnia that plays harpsichord to concert standard and is a master destroyer ?
[/quote]*walks off*
[/quote]

*follows*
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960919#msg960919 date=1255265361]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960918#msg960918 date=1255265329]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960917#msg960917 date=1255265258]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36371.msg960916#msg960916 date=1255264885]
[quote author=themn link=topic=36371.msg960914#msg960914 date=1255264581]
I do.

I want harsichord recitals from my DM.
[/quote]Is that the Bosnian kid?
[/quote]

There's a child from Bosnia that plays harpsichord to concert standard and is a master destroyer ?
[/quote]*walks off*
[/quote]

*follows*
[/quote]*looks back....breaks into sprint*
DAMN THESE SLOW TWITCH MUSCLES!
 
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