Man City vs Liverpool PL
- Thread starter Dreambeliever
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Hal is standing in for him this week as Lawro is in lockdown and can't get out of the
We need control and presence in the midfield and Keita would give us neither. Firmino gives us nothing up front at the moment.
I'm with you 100%. Just not sure Klopp will play them
I think he will go tried and tested Firmino up front. I don’t think Keita will start. Probably more chance of Shaqiri being the forward of the midfield three.
Can’t see Klopp not going with tried and tested in such a big game.
Milner and Bobby in.
Milner and Bobby in.
Well obviously that isn't true because Keita actually has far better defensive stats and technical skills / control. I realise some people detest him for some reason but let's not resort to Trump-like falsehoods eh 😉
The two players are so different in fact that it really depends on what Klopp is looking for. Given that Milner will track back deeper and help out in and around the penalty area, to assist Williams/Phillips, that may be the deciding factor.
Nah, he’s shit. Here are his stats from premierleague.com for his 47 appearances. Some will be crappy last few minutes of a game but you’d expect better from a player in a top side. He loses more duels and tackles than he wins.
Defence
Tackles 69
Tackle success % 42%
Blocked shots 15
Interceptions 25
Clearances 17
Headed Clearance 6
Recoveries 208
Duels won 165
Duels lost 184
Successful 50/50s 51
Aerial battles won 20
Aerial battles lost 33
Errors leading to goal 0
I think Bobby is likely to start with Jota coming on to wreck havoc in the final thirty, but let's see.
Jones played well against Atalanta, but I'm not sure I trust him defensively to be able to cope with City. I'd prefer Keita if he's fit. Keita is a master of winning the ball high up the pitch and with Peps love of possession football then players like Keita become very valuable.
Jones played well against Atalanta, but I'm not sure I trust him defensively to be able to cope with City. I'd prefer Keita if he's fit. Keita is a master of winning the ball high up the pitch and with Peps love of possession football then players like Keita become very valuable.
Using 2019/20 (Squawka - Premier League is just horrible to use - as it has more categories) as that is the most relevant.
And these are per 90 so we don't have to look for minutes played (18 vs. 22 games) but there is no doubting which player has better defensive stats, loses the ball less, contests more, wins more tackles.
As I said some people really have a blind spot where Keita is concerned.
Keita vs. Milner
Touches 93.4 vs. 89.6
Ball Recoveries 9.1 vs. 6.2
Possession Lost 9.2 vs. 13.6
Assists 0.4 vs. 0.2
Shot Accuracy 70% vs 40%
Chances Created 1.7 vs. 1.0
Passes Attempted 75 vs. 72.7
Pass Accuracy. 88.79% vs. 87.01
Long Ball Accuracy 65.22% vs. 61.25%
Attempted Thru Balls 0.6 vs. 0.3
Forward/Backward/Side passes are all within 1 of each other.
Duels Contested 12.9 vs. 9.9
Tackles Made 3.4 vs. 1.6
Take On Completed 2.6 vs. 1.0
Take On Success 88.46 vs. 90.91
Fouls Conceded 1.0 vs. 1.1
Aerial Success 47.37 vs. 50.0
Ground Duels Contested 10.8 vs. 7.3
Ground Duel Success 64.95 vs. 50.67
Clearances 0.3 vs. 1.6
Interceptions 1.2 vs. 0.6
Blocks 0 vs 0.3
However as I said they are really totally different players and what they bring to the game isn't directly comparable in the statistical sense so it won't be these stats that decide who Klopp picks rather than say a more attacking player vs one likely to help out Williams or spend more time in our box.
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Yet I bet you love Millie ? As do I. However the stats above paint a fairer picture of Keita's involvement.
Totally. However my only concern would be Keita isn't match fit so will he need a period of settling back in. We can't afford that in this game but I'd still give him 60 mins and then swap him out for Millie (assuming Thiago isn't fit and doesn't start or fill a bench spot).
Has Matip been spotted in training ? Has to start if he's fit.
--------------Alisson-------------
TAA----Matip---Gomez---Robbo
---------Hendo----Gini-----------
----------------Keita---------------
Salah---------Jota----------Mane
(though I'm sure Klopp will start Firmino)
That doesn’t tell you the full story either. I can’t get a squawks comparison of the league stats since Keita joined.
Pulling them from premier league Milner is ahead in clean sheets, goals conceded, blocks, successful tackles, headed duels won, clearances and they are level on interceptions. Keita has more tackles. Milner has played 300ish minutes more over that time with more appearances but fewer starts.
I fully agree that they are completely different players and it will be down to tactics. I wouldn’t trust Keita to be part of a tight midfield three to cover Williams (should Matip not play) and when Trent/Robertson get forward.
Squawka you can choose the season you want. It's pointless to include Keita's first season where he was clearly out of sorts and used all over the pitch. Ditto why use all Milner's games for us ? He's no longer in his prime so recent stats show his potential for a performance on Sunday. Hence why I used our PL winning season where their games/minutes are actually quite close.
Those stats I've listed above are for the PL only (hence the 18 games for Keita and 22 games for Milner that I mentioned). More minutes aren't as relevant (unless the minutes are ridiculously low and so statistically irrelevant) as actions per 90 mins.
Clearly Milner is not ahead on successful tackles in our PL winning season, in fact he's at less than half (3.4 vs.1.6) and he only just shades heading so irrelevant to include it (as in 1 more header won by Keita would level it up). They aren't even close to level on interceptions per 90 mins (Keita has 1.2 vs. 0.6).
Milner being ahead on clearances and blocks (again the numbers mean statistically irrelevant) and clean sheets (?) only goes to highlight the points I made: if you want a midfielder to help protect the defence then Milner is a better choice because Keita's tackles and repossessions come higher up the pitch. If Matip starts I'd want Keita winning the ball back higher up the pitch !
I was using stats for both players since Keita started not all of Milner’s games for us. They encompassed a title winning season and our record points season. Going back to my original point, in the middle of the park against a high possession city side I would prefer Milner who I feel would be the better choice.
So this is what I don't get (other than some posters despising Keita so wouldn't want him under any circumstances) : Keita has better tackling, far more interceptions, better passing stats, far more recoveries, much better Ground duels contested and way better dribbling skills aka successful take-ons (3.4 vs. 1.9 per 90 mins) ...... so how is Milner a better choice in the middle of the park against a high possession city side where winning the ball back is a priority ?!
Of course either Millie will start and play a blinder or Keita will and have a shitfest, after I've said that 😀
Injury Updates from Klopp
'No, he's (Thiago) not ready. Klopp said. "There was no surgery needed but still an injury, so you look day-to-day.
"The longer he is out, the longer he has to train before we consider him again. Thiago will not be available for us on Sunday and that is it."
On his centre-halves, however, the German said: "'Yes, Joel [Matip] is back and has had seven, eight, nine days in training and, after the game, there will be 14 days training for him. We will see what we can do."
Fabinho is still expected to be out until after the international break with a hamstring problem, having been replaced in the upcoming Brazil squad by Everton's Allan, while Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain also remains a long-term absentee.
'No, he's (Thiago) not ready. Klopp said. "There was no surgery needed but still an injury, so you look day-to-day.
"The longer he is out, the longer he has to train before we consider him again. Thiago will not be available for us on Sunday and that is it."
On his centre-halves, however, the German said: "'Yes, Joel [Matip] is back and has had seven, eight, nine days in training and, after the game, there will be 14 days training for him. We will see what we can do."
Fabinho is still expected to be out until after the international break with a hamstring problem, having been replaced in the upcoming Brazil squad by Everton's Allan, while Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain also remains a long-term absentee.
I’ll be wrong, I always am. Watch keita score the winner from 25 yards in the 93rd minute.
As I’ve just put this in froggys other games thread, we are gonna twat them 18-0. Jota with 14, Mané x2, Salah and Keita 😉
First go here.
I'd be tempted to stay with Phillips. Hendo,Gini and Shaqiri.Jota's on fire so he has to start.
I'd be tempted to stay with Phillips. Hendo,Gini and Shaqiri.Jota's on fire so he has to start.
Haha that would be awesome.
See lads Keita is great.
Brought to you by the same whopper who said Divock was a goal a game striker.
Hmmm.
You come on here into the City thread to suggest we start with Phillips, Wijnaldum and Shaqiri.
And you do this with a nickname which is an anagram for 'Hard a la Karen'.
Begone, evil fumer!
Manchester City v Liverpool is the acid test for two brilliant teams
Klopp’s side are top despite injury woes and Guardiola players have fallen back on individual quality when not quite firing
Eni Aluko
Eni Aluko
Thu 5 Nov 2020 10.22 GMT Last modified
Pep Guardiola with some of his Manchester City players after the 1-0 win at Sheffield United.
When the history of this season comes to be written the meeting of Liverpool and Manchester City on Sunday might not be seen as decisive in the title race, as these two sides’ encounters have been in the recent past, but with the situations they find themselves in the match looks absolutely fascinating. There is pressure on both sides this season, City wanting to knock Liverpool off their perch and the champions desperate to raise the trophy again, hopefully with fans there to see it this time, and perhaps this weekend we will see who is coping with it the best.
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The acid test of a great side is the ability to go again, not just to win major titles but to keep hold of them. City have done it, winning the Premier League in 2017-18 and doing it again the following year despite Liverpool’s massive points tally. Now it’s the Reds’ turn to try. Jürgen Klopp has spoken about wanting to attack the title this year rather than defend it – such a brilliant way to approach a challenge. They’re not on the ropes, worried about slipping up, they’re on the front foot. I love that psychological language from Klopp, and you can see his team putting his words into action on the pitch.
Virgil van Dijk’s injury was a cruel blow to their title chances. I’ve looked back over the sides who have managed to defend the Premier League this century, and none has done it without a player of his importance. Another brilliant Dutch centre-back, Jaap Stam, missed four months of the season when Manchester United retained their title in 2000-01, and the less influential Wes Brown missed almost all of United’s title defence in 2008-09, but it is a pretty solid rule that teams who retain the title keep the spine of their side fit and firing. Liverpool face playing the vast majority of this season without the rock who has held their defence together, and given their full-backs such attacking freedom, for the last two years, and it is the kind of blow that no other side in recent history has managed to recover from.
This year was going to be a serious challenge for them anyway. In 2018-19 they won the Champions League and just missed out on the league title, then they went again and won the league. To do it again this year, even with a full-strength side, would be an incredible achievement. It is so difficult to motivate a group of players to sustain these levels, and even without Van Dijk Liverpool haven’t taken a step back: they still have the hunger.
Though Thiago Alcântara was their star signing this summer, so far Diogo Jota is having the big impact. For years people watched Liverpool’s front three and asked how they would cope if any of them got seriously injured. Now they have a player who is making a serious case for pushing one of them out of the team. Jota looked a quality player at Wolves but, unlike Sadio Mané at Southampton before his move to Anfield, he was not their star, and under Klopp he has gone up a level. History suggests that Liverpool should have no chance of winning the league this season, with their best defender replaced with youth-team graduates most people had never heard of, and with recruitment that on the face of it doesn’t look that glamorous, but nevertheless they are top and in form.
Meanwhile Manchester City are 10th, a slightly false position because they have a game in hand that could put them level on points with Spurs in third, but to me they have looked at times like a bored group of players. The individual quality is still there, and is carrying them through games, but I do feel it looks like a dressing room that could benefit from hearing a new voice. One of Barcelona’s presidential candidates has spoken openly about Pep Guardiola returning as manager, and although Guardiola has said he is happy at City, speculation about his future is inevitable given that his contract expires at the end of this season. As a manager he has never stayed as long at a club as he has at City, and he is such an intense personality you can see why. After finishing the 2019-20 season so far behind Liverpool, and being knocked out of the Champions League by Lyon, this season – and this Sunday, as the first key match of the campaign – is an acid test for them as well.
City have had to cope for a while without Sergio Agüero, who could return this weekend, and Gabriel Jesus, who came off the bench to score against Olympiakos on Tuesday, but with Liverpool having also had to deal with the absence of Alisson this season there is no doubt at all about which side has had the worse luck with injuries. Ferran Torres has done a great job of providing a goal threat but though the return of specialist strikers could make a big difference for City I still see Liverpool edging Sunday’s game. The form of their own attack is just irresistible, with Jota scoring freely and Mo Salah and Mané not letting their own levels dip.
For them to be top, and demolishing major teams in the Champions League like they did Atalanta on Tuesday, despite all the challenges they have had to face, really is impressive. They recruited smartly, and the one attacking player they brought in is the talk of the town and giving Klopp a massive headache when he comes to pick their front three. When they have been forced to throw relative unknowns in Rhys Williams and Nathaniel Phillips into their backline, players who really don’t have the experience to play in those positions in games of such importance, they have looked comfortable despite the huge weight on their shoulders.
These are two brilliant teams with perhaps the two best managers in the world. One of them has every reason to be struggling right now but isn’t. The other has no such excuses, but isn’t quite firing. Sunday’s result at the Etihad could make those situations look even more stark or it could transform them, and that’s what makes the fixture so exciting.
Klopp’s side are top despite injury woes and Guardiola players have fallen back on individual quality when not quite firing
Eni Aluko
Eni Aluko
Thu 5 Nov 2020 10.22 GMT Last modified
Pep Guardiola with some of his Manchester City players after the 1-0 win at Sheffield United.
When the history of this season comes to be written the meeting of Liverpool and Manchester City on Sunday might not be seen as decisive in the title race, as these two sides’ encounters have been in the recent past, but with the situations they find themselves in the match looks absolutely fascinating. There is pressure on both sides this season, City wanting to knock Liverpool off their perch and the champions desperate to raise the trophy again, hopefully with fans there to see it this time, and perhaps this weekend we will see who is coping with it the best.
Advertisement
The acid test of a great side is the ability to go again, not just to win major titles but to keep hold of them. City have done it, winning the Premier League in 2017-18 and doing it again the following year despite Liverpool’s massive points tally. Now it’s the Reds’ turn to try. Jürgen Klopp has spoken about wanting to attack the title this year rather than defend it – such a brilliant way to approach a challenge. They’re not on the ropes, worried about slipping up, they’re on the front foot. I love that psychological language from Klopp, and you can see his team putting his words into action on the pitch.
Virgil van Dijk’s injury was a cruel blow to their title chances. I’ve looked back over the sides who have managed to defend the Premier League this century, and none has done it without a player of his importance. Another brilliant Dutch centre-back, Jaap Stam, missed four months of the season when Manchester United retained their title in 2000-01, and the less influential Wes Brown missed almost all of United’s title defence in 2008-09, but it is a pretty solid rule that teams who retain the title keep the spine of their side fit and firing. Liverpool face playing the vast majority of this season without the rock who has held their defence together, and given their full-backs such attacking freedom, for the last two years, and it is the kind of blow that no other side in recent history has managed to recover from.
This year was going to be a serious challenge for them anyway. In 2018-19 they won the Champions League and just missed out on the league title, then they went again and won the league. To do it again this year, even with a full-strength side, would be an incredible achievement. It is so difficult to motivate a group of players to sustain these levels, and even without Van Dijk Liverpool haven’t taken a step back: they still have the hunger.
Though Thiago Alcântara was their star signing this summer, so far Diogo Jota is having the big impact. For years people watched Liverpool’s front three and asked how they would cope if any of them got seriously injured. Now they have a player who is making a serious case for pushing one of them out of the team. Jota looked a quality player at Wolves but, unlike Sadio Mané at Southampton before his move to Anfield, he was not their star, and under Klopp he has gone up a level. History suggests that Liverpool should have no chance of winning the league this season, with their best defender replaced with youth-team graduates most people had never heard of, and with recruitment that on the face of it doesn’t look that glamorous, but nevertheless they are top and in form.
Meanwhile Manchester City are 10th, a slightly false position because they have a game in hand that could put them level on points with Spurs in third, but to me they have looked at times like a bored group of players. The individual quality is still there, and is carrying them through games, but I do feel it looks like a dressing room that could benefit from hearing a new voice. One of Barcelona’s presidential candidates has spoken openly about Pep Guardiola returning as manager, and although Guardiola has said he is happy at City, speculation about his future is inevitable given that his contract expires at the end of this season. As a manager he has never stayed as long at a club as he has at City, and he is such an intense personality you can see why. After finishing the 2019-20 season so far behind Liverpool, and being knocked out of the Champions League by Lyon, this season – and this Sunday, as the first key match of the campaign – is an acid test for them as well.
City have had to cope for a while without Sergio Agüero, who could return this weekend, and Gabriel Jesus, who came off the bench to score against Olympiakos on Tuesday, but with Liverpool having also had to deal with the absence of Alisson this season there is no doubt at all about which side has had the worse luck with injuries. Ferran Torres has done a great job of providing a goal threat but though the return of specialist strikers could make a big difference for City I still see Liverpool edging Sunday’s game. The form of their own attack is just irresistible, with Jota scoring freely and Mo Salah and Mané not letting their own levels dip.
For them to be top, and demolishing major teams in the Champions League like they did Atalanta on Tuesday, despite all the challenges they have had to face, really is impressive. They recruited smartly, and the one attacking player they brought in is the talk of the town and giving Klopp a massive headache when he comes to pick their front three. When they have been forced to throw relative unknowns in Rhys Williams and Nathaniel Phillips into their backline, players who really don’t have the experience to play in those positions in games of such importance, they have looked comfortable despite the huge weight on their shoulders.
These are two brilliant teams with perhaps the two best managers in the world. One of them has every reason to be struggling right now but isn’t. The other has no such excuses, but isn’t quite firing. Sunday’s result at the Etihad could make those situations look even more stark or it could transform them, and that’s what makes the fixture so exciting.
Keita is shite shocker. In other news, The Lying Rag is hot.
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