So why did you ask?
Luis Alberto - SIGNED fap fap fap - Fuck you Doc Mac, fuck you right in the face'
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Cos I wanted to.
Nah. Don't smoke.
Anyway, I hope he proves to be worth it. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.
I've never heard of ANY of the players we're after. Well, apart from Kolo Toure. It's like when Championship Manager gets to 2043 and makes players names up that sound like Bulgarian cough sweets.
However, previous years when I had heard of all of our transfer targets, more often than not they turned out to be largely dog shit. So, right now, I'm quite happy to be signing these unknowns from a parallel dimension in the faint hope that some fucker whose job it is to know that they're good, knows that they're good.
If not, we can sack aforementioned fuckers when we reach our next crisis point.
However, previous years when I had heard of all of our transfer targets, more often than not they turned out to be largely dog shit. So, right now, I'm quite happy to be signing these unknowns from a parallel dimension in the faint hope that some fucker whose job it is to know that they're good, knows that they're good.
If not, we can sack aforementioned fuckers when we reach our next crisis point.
Ross, you seem to be on a personal crusade to educate us all on some intrinsic 'values' in a player that only you and the Sloan Consortium have uncovered. It's reached a wonderfully patronising nadir recently too, and coincidentally it also seems to be getting on everyone's tits.
Not because people don't understand that there are other variables beyond how many goals a striker scores/saves a keeper makes/crosses a winger puts in when evaluating a footballer's ability and worth, but because you seem intent on eliminating any identifiable traits that can't be measured through a fucking spreadsheet or some convoluted analytics. There are other less analytical mesaures that are critical in football, but to that in a minute...
There's a space for useful data, especially in sport where the human eye has been the judge for far too long. I'm with you on it's much-needed onset, I'm with you on using as many helpful measures as we can get, I'm with you on avoiding any of the archaic premiership-proven adages that are out there, I'm with you on having seen fucking Moneyball, I've got all of it. But you cannot for one second convince me that there is a dataset or computation that can analsyse the things trained football professionals - like scouts, technical experts, coaches, etc - can see in a footballer that your average Excel spreadsheet can't.
Sure opta can tell me how many passes Michael Carrick made last year, and how far they were and when he played them. But I've yet to see anything which tells me why when he was under pressure he made the more difficult pass to Rooney's non-preferred foot (for a change) when Rooney had a defender up his arse, despite there being 4 other simpler options. And the pace he played it? And why at that pace? And why did he run forward instead of back to offer up the option of the return pass? To lift the temp of the game or slow it down? And why at that time of the game?
Millions upon millions of decisions that every footballer makes in a game that can't be computed or understood. That can't be denoted by a line on a flat screen. How does Luis Suarez continually find space in confined areas? How does he lose a marker when Andy Carroll can't? Wikipedia doesn't answer that for me, but astute footballing minds and experts can and do.
So when we spend 7M or whatever on Luis Alberto or anyone for that mind, sure I want stats. I want as much fucking information as I can possibly get to formulate an opinion, and a large quota of that info comes from just watching him play the game. Because sometimes you see something in them that seperates, and can explain why it's worth it despite all the nominal statistics you've arguing otherwise. I read an interview with Brian Marwood (City DoF or something) on how they revolutionized City's player evaluation strategy. Really interesting read which argued the pro's of all the things you're banging on about. And then Marwood openly admitted to throwing it out of the window when the opportunity to sign Yaya Toure became available. He didn't fit their age profile, their wage structure, he wasn't getting regular games at Barca, wasn't quick, wasn't a wonderful passer, wasn't great in the tackle, didn't score a lot of goals, hadn't excelled at previous clubs - pretty much everything you're arguing right now about Alberto or whomever else. But they knew he'd fit at City. They knew he was an intelligent footballer that could do things that you couldn't easily explain or justify through a fucking dataset. And look what they got, a fucking beast who still isn't quick, good in the tackle, a complete passer, and scores the odd goal. But he can do the things that not even you know how to fucking identify Ross - like raise the tempo of a game when they're playing shite away to Newcastle with 3 games left in the league campaign, like pick the right moment to drive forward and the right one to sit and help Barry, provide the in-game nous to control the shit out of just about anyone else he plays, and make the right decisions in a fucking nanosecond more often than 99% of other players in the world.
Those attributes won't appear on Wikipedia, and the Sloan Consortium don't know how to evaluate them, but they're invaluable and they're worth paying the money for. So next time we're about to sign someone, add in your computations, but have a look at what they can do on a football pitch also. Cos that shit helps too.
I knew someone eventually would
I'll leave the irony aside for a second.
The simple point I made was I don't believe we've been watching this guy since before the new scouting team was put in place.
His transfer value seems to be plucked out of the air/Ayre.
And for the record statistical analysis is pointless without scouting and vice versa.
But it matters not what anyone thinks they're worth apart from the buyer! My ex-wife keeps saying that the house isn't worth what the estate agents say. I've told her time and time again, that it matters not what she or the estate agents say. If someone buys it, then it was worth that to them!
*applauds*
But you realise the troll will bite back with something.
EDIT - he already has!!!
Are you suggesting that the seller had no idea of his value? Are you suggesting that we just offered a sum of money without getting any indication of a value from the seller?
If you are, I'd love to see your proof of this. Or is this another piece of your opinion quoted for truth?
Questions, questions....
Im saying players with similar profiles go for a third of what we paid.
Should I put that into your house analogy for you ?
You've got to hand it to Rosco. He's really nailing his colours to the mast here. I mean, imagine how he'll look if this guy turns out to be good...
Imagine how many times I'm going to quote everyone from this thread if he's not
He'll be our third or fourth best Luis.
So how did your "the price is plucked out of the air/Ayre" thing work?
Are you suggesting that the selling club did not have a value on him? Are you suggesting that we offered a sum of money without asking how much they valued him at?
Don't duck the questions, a simple yes or no will do.
I think you're reading way more into what I was saying.
So you'll rejoice in the fact that we've wasted money?
I wonder if this is a self-preservation mechanism. If he's great, then you can simply hold your hands up and be pleased for the club. But if he's not, at least you'll be able to tell everyone how right you were. It seems like an awful lot of effort for a pretty cheap thrill, though.
Not really. He's just saying that he thinks that for the level of football he's played at that he's too expensive. In general he's correct on the matter. You wouldn't normally pay such a high price for a player of his level. Tom Ince is going for £8m and he's played in theory more competitive football and we consider £8m too much for Ince.
I've been on holidays and dont want to trawl through 20 pages. How much have we paid for this obvious cunt? £7m or €7m
Isn't he? You clearly haven't looked into Ross' track record on here. He's the King Troll of "I was right and you were wrong" on the site. I'd also say its people's perception that he's being haughty and arrogant about this and quite a few other things.
Now you see my issue with you bringing Tom Ince into the discussion is that he is a known quantity to us. So maybe the amount of competitive football thing is not the only reason we consider £8m to be too high? We've had good experience of the Ince family values and attitude towards Liverpool FC. I'd say that is very possibly a factor as well.
I think you're posting things, getting asked to clarify/justify what you've said and then you're avoiding what you've been asked. I'd suggest that the Ayre comment was just a cheap bandwagon jibe which you cannot actually justify because you don't know how the negotiations on the price were arrived at.
Just saying.
I've been clear already, but I'll spell it out for you.
Lets say you and all your neighbours decide to sell your largely similar looking houses. You all sell for around the 250k mark, except one fella who gets 700k.
Would you not wonder what the fuck is inside that house ? Because from the outside it looks like every other one.
Still avoiding the original questions I asked then?
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