Liverpool V Sunderland Match Thread

[Grjt2]

An un happy keeper only brings negative vibes to the squad. He'll be gone by summer or become the backup

Reckon that's how it works champ?

"Joe Bloggs isn't very happy but has loads of time left on his contract...what shall we do?"
"Don't worry boss he's an outfield player and we'll sell him in the summer".
"Oh okay, fuck him"

"Oooh, Joe Bloggs #2 isn't very happy but has loads of time left on his contract...what shall we do?"
"Fuck, fucketty fuck! If only he was an outfield player we wouldn't have to give him anything, especially as we'll probably sell him in the summer. Because he's a goalkeeper we better give him a £15m contract, so that if we sell him we give away half the fee settling his contract"
"Well an unhappy keeper only brings negative vibes to the squad, so it sounds like a great plan"



Have a word with yourself mate

 

[Hansern]

It does though, that's why it's so baffling. There's only two ways this will go. We carry on playing him and putting faith in him, when it's clear he's nowhere near good enough, or we buy a new keeper and look like chumps for giving him a bumper longterm deal. We're on a hiding to nothing again and we look like amateurs, again.

He'll play out this season and then I'm sure Klopp will buy a new GK.
Wheter or not Ming stays after that is up to him I guess.
A new 5 year contract doesnt mean much these days. Loads of players leave have left shortly after and loads wil continue to do so.

Bogdan has been binned. Ward will hopefully get his chance now but next year he might go on loan to a Championship side or Premiership if he's good enough.

It will be Ming and hopefully Horn or Ter Stegen.
Klopp isnt stupid. He can see what we are seeing. The difference is that he just started in this job and is assessing these players while we have watched them for years. I can see us getting frustrated by that but we'll have to give hin time.

Klopp is a World class manager and has built up Dortmund from a similar poition as ours. He'll adress these issue in the summer. If Ming keeps fucking up he wont continue to start.
If he does after this summer, then we can get the knives out. IMHO

 

[mark1975]

It means alot if we want to bin the player off, because we'll have another Golden Handshake on our hands. Why do we have to wait until the Summer to criticise a blatantly stupid mistake? It doesn't mean I think Klopp is wrong for the job, it just means he isn't infallible and that the club have not only bought the wrong player, but thrown more money at him when in 4 months time he shouldn't have a future here.

 

[Grjt2]

It means alot if we want to bin the player off, because we'll have another Golden Handshake on our hands.

Exactly.

I genuinely don't think there is a positive outcome from this situation, bar Klopp exacting some kind of miracle overhaul of Mignolet as a player.

More likely, either:

1) the player is our starting #1 for the foreseeable. Klopp isn't executing some devious morale boosting plan, but means exactly what he says. He rates him, says he rates him, tells the fans he rates him. We deduce from this that he rates him.

2) it is some cunning plan, he does see what the rest of us see and replaces him in the summer. Mignolet goes for £5-10m (to who for fucks sake, but let's ignore that for a mo) but we settle his COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY UNNECESSARY recently signed 5yr £60k a week contract (so £15-16m commitment!!!!!!) for somewhere north of £5m (best case scenario). We therefore add Jurgen to the list of people unnecessarily pissing away the clubs hard earned, whilst significant portions of the fans walk out of the ground over financial sums well below this wasteful clusterfuck.

What part of that gives anyone any reassurance whatsoever?

 

[willby]

When the mings are finally enumerated :
1. Ming dynasty
2. Ming the merciless
3. Ming 😀

 

[Hansern]

Or he stays on as our 2nd choice goalkeeper on a 60k a week contract for 1-2 years, before moving on.
I think people are reading to much into this public backing.
I wouldnt be all that surprised if Achterberg is moved on this summer either. De Beer could be available.

The contract is quite baffling but I dont think it will be a problem to move him on with that kind of wage.
The timing of it is annoying and weird though. Should have said that he could get rewarded with a new deal this summer IF he played well for the last part of the season.
Which with these performances wouldnt have happened...

 

[FoxForceFive]

If it affected the team then good. I'm fucking made up. Football without fans is fuck all. I walked out early and I don't feel one small particle of guilt for us throwing away a win. Its hardly unusual.

Yep. The owners think they can bleed the fans dry & it won't effect them or the team.

Enough is indeed enough.

They are bleeding the lifeblood from the club. This tv deal is fucking HUGE, the new stand paid for by corporate seats & the additional seats will bring in more profit still even at last seasons prices, yet they choose to increase prices, to make a relatively small amount of profit to the club that is actually a large amount to the fans.

I do think it effected the team, it certainly didn't help, & rightly so. It shows how important the fans are to the team, & why we shouldn't be treated like simple consumers, because we aren't simple consumers.

 

[mark1975]

Keepers are by the by, you get a top keeper in and pray (like most clubs) that he doesn't get any significant injury. You have a reserve keeper who's at least adequate on a modest wage. There's no excuse for sticking with him when every fan and critic can see he's not good enough, and there's certainly no justification for letting him sit on the bench for 1-2 years on roughly £3 million per year. As Grjt says, if we pay him off at any point, we're looking at an agreement in the region of £5m, which by my reckoning will basically eat up the majority of any transfer fee we're likely to receive for him.

 

[willby]

Reckon that's how it works champ?

"Joe Bloggs isn't very happy but has loads of time left on his contract...what shall we do?"
"Don't worry boss he's an outfield player and we'll sell him in the summer".
"Oh okay, fuck him"

"Oooh, Joe Bloggs #2 isn't very happy but has loads of time left on his contract...what shall we do?"
"Fuck, fucketty fuck! If only he was an outfield player we wouldn't have to give him anything, especially as we'll probably sell him in the summer. Because he's a goalkeeper we better give him a £15m contract, so that if we sell him we give away half the fee settling his contract"
"Well an unhappy keeper only brings negative vibes to the squad, so it sounds like a great plan"



Have a word with yourself mate

I see your point; the bumper contract should have indeed been handled differently . Regarding player happiness: I'd have thought the main reason Suarez, Sterling and Torres were sold off coz they weren't happy and all, and wanted out. We're just going to have to wait till summer to see how it goes with Ming.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Is it true that people are happy if the walkout possibly effected the team and the result? As an out of towner who has attended a lot of games in the past, but lucky to get to one a season now, I find that hard to understand.

Can somebody enlighten me because, whilst I am totally on the side of people doing what they feel is the right thing, I cant imagine that I would have done the same.

 

[Hansern]

Keepers are by the by, you get a top keeper in and pray (like most clubs) that he doesn't get any significant injury. You have a reserve keeper who's at least adequate on a modest wage. There's no excuse for sticking with him when every fan and critic can see he's not good enough, and there's certainly no justification for letting him sit on the bench for 1-2 years on roughly £3 million per year. As Grjt says, if we pay him off at any point, we're looking at an agreement in the region of £5m, which by my reckoning will basically eat up the majority of any transfer fee we're likely to receive for him.

If we bin him off this summer we're looking at signing 2 new GK though.
Bogdan is out and Ward has to play on loan somewhere.
Thats the only logic I can (hopefully) see. Keeping him on as our nr 2 and going for a new 1st choice GK this summer.
We'll just have to see this summer.

The timing of the contract and the length it is baffeling though.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Is it true that people are happy if the walkout possibly effected the team and the result? As an out of towner who has attended a lot of games in the past, but lucky to get to one a season now, I find that hard to understand.

Can somebody enlighten me because, whilst I am totally on the side of people doing what they feel is the right thing, I cant imagine that I would have done the same.

No I was gutted we didn't win but was fully behind the walkout.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

But in a way the draw just highlighted what a load of shit we have playing for us but for what we're charged you'd think we'd been watching Barcelona for the last 25 years.

 

[Hansern]

Yeah, its shocking to see how average we are. So much money spent and we're rightly a mid table side.
Shambles and heart breaking.

 

[Jack D Rips]

But in a way the draw just highlighted what a load of shit we have playing for us but for what we're charged you'd think we'd been watching Barcelona for the last 25 years.

I totally agree with every word of this. It's just that I cant for the life of me get what yesterday's action achieved.

 

[mark1975]

It's a warped logic really. Increase the prices so we're playing top tier prices for an allegedly top tier club. They justify it by saying we want to compete with the best and that ticket revenue helps us achieve this, and then we go and spend £30m+ on Benteke and we hand one of the worst keepers in the league a £15m contract. What are they trying to justify? Funding their flawed player policy? If we scouted properly and didn't have the fucking pathetic committee, we'd save millions and might actually start getting somewhere.

I swear we overspend so that when the stats/accounts are made available, it looks like we're competing with the best financially - "look at us everyone!". Well, on many levels that might be true, but we're pissing most of it away on a completely flawed model, and no one at the top of the club seems to give a flying fuck.

We were ready to pay £30m for a Brazilian two weeks ago who ended up following the money trail to China, so once again we failed to do our homework on a player and his motivation. And this is what they are charging us for. Overpriced misfit after overpriced misfit.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I'm far from happy we drew. I was a sullen disappointed wreck after the match tbh.

However, two points now mean very little, & it highlights that the fans are more than just consumers in football, they can & do effect the team & results, & shouldn't be taken advantage of to ever more increasing degrees in the name of greed.

 

[Red Mullet]

I totally agree with every word of this. It's just that I cant for the life of me get what yesterday's action achieved.

In effect, I don't think it achieved anything other than affecting the result of the game. You can also argue that the shitness of our players mentality (possibly ability) would mean we would have still drawn so the whole walk out didn't achieve anything.

I cannot fathom that the owners or the board will say "ok, let's lower the prices". It'll put them in a untenable position where they'll feel hostage to the fans staging walk outs whenever they feel aggrieved.

Both sides will know this. So it'll either mean more walk outs and divvy escalations leading to I don't know what or FSG showing some class and begin discussions with the supporters club out of the public eye.

 

[Red Mullet]

We were ready to pay £30m for a Brazilian two weeks ago who ended up following the money trail to China, so once again we failed to do our homework on a player and his motivation. And this is what they are charging us for. Overpriced misfit after overpriced misfit.

This is a little harsh considering the homework showed that we weren't prepared to pay the asking price and left it.

 

[mark1975]

This is a little harsh considering the homework showed that we weren't prepared to pay the asking price and left it.

We were prepared to pay £25m or whatever.

 

[Red Mullet]

We were prepared to pay £25m or whatever.

The homework could have shown he was worth £25m. Considering £25m is around what we paid for Suarez, Lallana, Firmino and less than Benteke and Carroll it's no surprise we were prepared to pay it.

Essentially, the homework was done, no?

 

[mark1975]

The homework could have shown he was worth £25m. Considering £25m is around what we paid for Suarez, Lallana, Firmino and less than Benteke and Carroll it's no surprise we were prepared to pay it.

Essentially, the homework was done, no?

The point was about our ability to buy the right players, in terms of mentality, quality, motivation etc. He opted to move to China for the money, to a league that is some way behind Europe's best. He talked about us being a club that players "pass through" before moving to a bigger club. When we're a team that's shy on players that take responsibility on the pitch and fight for the shirt and want to help make us successful, his actions seem a little bit wide of those expectations. I don't think that's an unreasonable observation to make from what he's said and now done.

 

[Red Mullet]

The point was about our ability to buy the right players, in terms of mentality, quality, motivation etc. He opted to move to China for the money, to a league that is some way behind Europe's best. He talked about us being a club that players "pass through" before moving to a bigger club. When we're a team that's shy on players that take responsibility on the pitch and fight for the shirt and want to help make us successful, his actions seem a little bit wide of those expectations.

Are you truly surprise that a footballer is chasing the money? Name one that isn't (other than Gerrard and Carra - but both were well paid). Let's face it, if he came to us played as per his potential, we wouldn't care if he's paid a fortune and the same old rubbish will come out from his mouth.

We don't know why he wanted to leave Russia, highly likely it's money but let's face it Russia isn't the hot bed for good living.

 

[mark1975]

Are you truly surprise that a footballer is chasing the money? Name one that isn't (other than Gerrard and Carra - but both were well paid). Let's face it, if he came to us played as per his potential, we wouldn't care if he's paid a fortune and the same old rubbish will come out from his mouth.

We don't know why he wanted to leave Russia, highly likely it's money but let's face it Russia isn't the hot bed for good living.

I'm not surprised no, and admittedly I'm talking about two isolated factors really, him moving to a fairly less competitive league and his comments about us being a stepping stone. The latter was a big indicator I thought, so as I said, to be willing to pay £25m for someone with that sort of mindset about us, doesn't suggest to me that we had looked for a player who had the right mentality to be a winner (for us). Maybe it's just me, I know that sort of thing is few and far between these days with the modern game, but it's also something that we've been on the blunt end of a few times now and it's something we should be conscious of when looking for players.

 

[cloggypop]

He didn't leave Russia. He left Ukraine.

 

[Portly]

Mr. Putin would disagree.

 

[Red Mullet]

He didn't leave Russia. He left Ukraine.

I wrote USSR at first but changed it to Russia.

 

[cloggypop]

Mr. Putin would disagree.

Yeah, that probably helps make China look more attractive.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I totally agree with every word of this. It's just that I cant for the life of me get what yesterday's action achieved.

It had every journalist in the country writing about it, MOTD talking about it, Spanish radio covering it.

Opposition supporter groups are now in dialogue with ours on how to escalate the issue.

For something with very little planning time it was a big statement in my eyes.

 

[Red Mullet]

I'm not surprised no, and admittedly I'm talking about two isolated factors really, him moving to a fairly less competitive league and his comments about us being a stepping stone. The latter was a big indicator I thought, so as I said, to be willing to pay £25m for someone with that sort of mindset about us, doesn't suggest to me that we had looked for a player who had the right mentality to be a winner (for us). Maybe it's just me, I know that sort of thing is few and far between these days with the modern game, but it's also something that we've been on the blunt end of a few times now and it's something we should be conscious of when looking for players.

I tend to think all footballers sees each club as a stepping stone. Let's face it, the club will do the same and off load players when they get to the twilight of their careers irrespective of how well they played for them in the past. So it works both ways.

Let's take Suarez for example. Said all the right things (I used to play as Liverpool on my SNES), Liverpool are the best club with all their history but as soon as the team couldn't get into the CL or miss out on the title he was sniffing around Arsenal and as soon as Barcelona made an offer he was off. He didn't show any lack of ambition in his playing and produced his competitive best with each game but he still left and used Liverpool as a stepping stone.