The Trent comment is key here for me.
When TAA is back on form you'll see a different Salah.
Doesn't mean Salah should be playing as poorly as he is doing though, obv.
Liverpool v Manchester United - Match Thread
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When TAA is back on form you'll see a different Salah.
Doesn't mean Salah should be playing as poorly as he is doing though, obv.
Well, at least there's no commute to work to worry about lads! [emoji23]
Jota back and we’ll go on a 10 game winning run.
3 matches in a row without scoring is concerning. The shooting has been abysmal in these games. It’s either ends up like a pass back to the goalie or it’s uncontrolled and overpowered into row Z.
The only positive maybe is we created enough chances against Newcastle and yesterday to win quite comfortably.
The only positive maybe is we created enough chances against Newcastle and yesterday to win quite comfortably.
You probably know already, but there's full match replays posted here minutes after the final whistle
https://www.reddit.com/r/footballhighlights/
Sleep > Football.
Part of the problem is our attackers are used to receiving the ball when the defence is in a state of panic, inflicted by our relentless midfield winning the ball back high up the pitch and often. Now our midfield is our defence, and the replacement midfielders are incapable of exerting a similar level of pressure to make the system work. Combine that with more teams figuring out how to nullify Klopps tactics, and we find ourselves behind Leicester in the league.
Klopp recognised this yesterday, selecting in a more creative midfield, because the press is no longer our creative energy. It's clear he's aware of the problem, however correcting it will take time. This isn't just a simple case of a few players out of form; the players are out of form because the entire system that has been drilled into them from day 1 has been is disrupted and out of balance. What we need is some consistency to find rhythm and new passing patterns. Klopp would be wise to start the same team again in the next few weeks and let them find some flow.
That doesn't excuse all the performances. We can of course improve on an individual level, too. It's madness really, but I'm now relying on our two summer signings in Jota and Thiago bailing out a team that walked the league by 30 points. It's strange, but it's where we're at.
There were positives yesterday. Allison, Henderson and Fabinho were all superb, Trent despite some questionable defending was finding his accuracy again, Thiago was a sensation in the opening thirty minutes, Shaqiri fizzed the ball well excellently, making decent decisions time and time again. United also defended extremely well. It was difficult to expose slabheads weaknesses, because they just sat back and played like his old Leicester team that miraculously got his value up to £80M.
Klopp recognised this yesterday, selecting in a more creative midfield, because the press is no longer our creative energy. It's clear he's aware of the problem, however correcting it will take time. This isn't just a simple case of a few players out of form; the players are out of form because the entire system that has been drilled into them from day 1 has been is disrupted and out of balance. What we need is some consistency to find rhythm and new passing patterns. Klopp would be wise to start the same team again in the next few weeks and let them find some flow.
That doesn't excuse all the performances. We can of course improve on an individual level, too. It's madness really, but I'm now relying on our two summer signings in Jota and Thiago bailing out a team that walked the league by 30 points. It's strange, but it's where we're at.
There were positives yesterday. Allison, Henderson and Fabinho were all superb, Trent despite some questionable defending was finding his accuracy again, Thiago was a sensation in the opening thirty minutes, Shaqiri fizzed the ball well excellently, making decent decisions time and time again. United also defended extremely well. It was difficult to expose slabheads weaknesses, because they just sat back and played like his old Leicester team that miraculously got his value up to £80M.
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Did we though? I don't remember too many clear chances. One fizzed across goal that Firmino should have tapped home and another where Salah struggled to get the ball out of his feet and he put it between Maguire's legs and it went wide. What else was there? A Thiago shot from distance?
We're not creating that many chances, there were a couple of moments that could have ended in a good chance, where the supply was there but then the next phase of play broke down because the attacker then didn't hit it early enough or play in a team mate, but they weren't what you would class as clear cut chances.
The bigger issue is the front three, because they often supply each other, the approach play is "ok" and was better yesterday at times with Shaqiri and Thiago, but I wouldn't say we created any more than when we have had Henderson, Fabinho etc in there, there was an injection of some prettier interplay, but we weren't creating chance after chance either.
Like squiggles said above, we are best right after a turn-over, not against an established defense with two banks of four.
We need some alternative plans, and the working it around their box ending in a cross is not working against an established defense.
Great when countering, but now it is more like giving the ball away 9 out of 10 times.
We need some alternative plans, and the working it around their box ending in a cross is not working against an established defense.
Great when countering, but now it is more like giving the ball away 9 out of 10 times.
I need to watch the highlights but I thought Bobby could have got himself a hat trick yesterday.
We aren’t creating chance after chance as you say but we’ve had enough to get that first goal, which would help open these games up and allow us to counter attack more.
For me bobby is the issue. Everything is breaking down with him. His runs, his use of the ball, his positional choices are all awful. He's hampering the midfield as he's taking up deeper attacking positions with his back to goal that they would be taking facing goal. His control for anything coming in the box is poor and he's not making the runs to open up space for Salah or mane to exploit
He's turned in to a full on flabby melt
He's turned in to a full on flabby melt
If I hear one more pundit declare that what we're missing most in VVD's absence is his long diagonal passes, I think I'll scream. We are missing that element, true, but he's not the only player who can hit that type of ball. It wasn't even as if Virge was THAT good at it - a lot of his long passes were either cut out early or just bounced into touch. Williams can play that kind of pass. Matip can, too. Fab surely can. So there's no reason why one of them shouldn't be encouraged to assume responsibility for doing so. We don't need to wait for VVD to return in order to start using that move again.
Creating chances is one thing but testing the keeper is another. De gea had one save to make
I thought the whole reason we dropped Henderson to CB was to bring that facet back to our game, and it happened a few times yesterday....but we were still shite up front
People are hanging their hat on the "woe is me we have injured centre backs" for everything wrong with us.
Arguably our defence has been the best part of us this season
The defence has been good at the expense of the midfield though.
That midfield is now nowhere near the quality it was before & it's creating loads of problems.
TAA's poor form added, & then a rare loss of form to all the front three, & we lack any real teeth attacking, so we're reduced to crossing & hoping, rinse & repeat.
Inevitably some of these issues feed into each other, were we less predictable defences would struggle a bit more, which would give the forwards more space etc, so it's hard to pick a single facet, but losing our two best midfielders & them at the back simply not being as effective with the ball is a huge part of it.
That midfield is now nowhere near the quality it was before & it's creating loads of problems.
TAA's poor form added, & then a rare loss of form to all the front three, & we lack any real teeth attacking, so we're reduced to crossing & hoping, rinse & repeat.
Inevitably some of these issues feed into each other, were we less predictable defences would struggle a bit more, which would give the forwards more space etc, so it's hard to pick a single facet, but losing our two best midfielders & them at the back simply not being as effective with the ball is a huge part of it.
One good thing that may come from all of this is that we've remembered how to defend as a team again.
Post winning the title we dropped off and our defensive displays both individually and as a team were dire. Remember, our two worst defensive displays over the last year have come with a full defense available. Gomez is missed, but he was fucking awful at times and needed to show more consistency, I'm not sold on him and even less so now he has to come back from a serious injury.
So we can only get better again as a defensive unit and team, as we gradually get our injured players back, providing we maintain that desire to protect our defense when we need to.
The big issue is what everyone has touched on. Our defensive patch-up has had a knock on effect on the midfield, which might in turn have had a knock on effect on the attack. What you usually find when your midfield isn't functioning on certain levels is that your attackers start dropping to search for possession and this then disrupts the whole system.
Post winning the title we dropped off and our defensive displays both individually and as a team were dire. Remember, our two worst defensive displays over the last year have come with a full defense available. Gomez is missed, but he was fucking awful at times and needed to show more consistency, I'm not sold on him and even less so now he has to come back from a serious injury.
So we can only get better again as a defensive unit and team, as we gradually get our injured players back, providing we maintain that desire to protect our defense when we need to.
The big issue is what everyone has touched on. Our defensive patch-up has had a knock on effect on the midfield, which might in turn have had a knock on effect on the attack. What you usually find when your midfield isn't functioning on certain levels is that your attackers start dropping to search for possession and this then disrupts the whole system.
That is the issue though because not only is it that our defence so much weaker (note GA and because we now need extra cover from midfield) but that has weakened our midfield where Fabinho proved the cover, long range passing and midfield runs and Hendo the energy to cover for TAA (is this part of the reason he doesn't seem to be attacking as much or as deep?) and his presence on the RW when pressing. I can't wait to see those two with Thiago.
This in turn has undoubtedly affected the supply to our front line. And our presence at corners without VvD attracting most of the defensive attention as well as scoring from time to time.
It all stems from the lack of established CBs. Until they return it has to be Fabs & Matip however depending on the opposition I'd also occasionally send Fabs back into DM and play Rhys.
Bobby has been highly inconsistent this season and this was one of the game where was complete shit. Jota was the answer to this but sadly he is injured. I hope Klopp drops Firmino for 1 or 2 games or just simply brings him after 60 minutes or so. We can still start a midfield of Thiago, Gini and Ox/Milner/Jones/Keita, thereby play Mane-Salah-Shaq up front.
Klopp seems reluctant to change formation, even if he rotates players around in the 4-3-3.
Yesterday, I expected more of a 4231 with Salah or Mane up front, also to accommodate Shaq in a better position, and to give us the two DMs (Rafa tm) to protect our makeshift central defense.
Yesterday, I expected more of a 4231 with Salah or Mane up front, also to accommodate Shaq in a better position, and to give us the two DMs (Rafa tm) to protect our makeshift central defense.
Yes, we've lost fab and hendo from midfield from this game; but we had thiago, shaqiri and gini there! That's a midfield 3 that's better than 90% of the fucking league!
It was a lack of movement and options that kept blunting us. Thiago constantly looking to spring an attack and no one was doing anything. Shaq tried to burst in to the box or lay the ball through, but no one was getting on the end of it.
The lack of van dijk passing is negated by the passing ability of fab at the back, or hendo at the back.
We're out of form and it's nothing to do with van dijk
We're screaming for Jota more than were screaming for van dijk. And that's the issue for me
And sometimes a positive can be lost in the avalanche of negatives. Playing just off the front 3 is his best position. He does try the little through ball and with Jota coming back, who has that extra bit of zip that has been missing, it could be a decent play.
Other issue that was a bit overlooked was Thiago not being as noticable in the second half. Maybe he was a bit deep to influence it or his fitness isn't quite right. I'm also a bit disappointed with Jones and his development. He just hasn't done anything of note. Seems to be on the periphery of the attack. Whatever comes or goes all the progress over the past 2/3 years is under threat.
Realistically when is he back. Someone said he was still in a leg brace a week or so ago...
I would be interested to know if there has been a change in trents average position pre and post VVD’s injury.
According to Pearce it may not be until Feb before Jota's back.
Playing out from the back wasn't very fluent. None of the 3 mids really showed for the ball as much as Hendo often does. It was a bit strained. Has to be expected a little bit due to the injuries. Both full backs have been below par as well.
I think with the worries we have the FA cup game should be downgraded even further. Do we need the grief given our current difficulties.
I think with the worries we have the FA cup game should be downgraded even further. Do we need the grief given our current difficulties.
We’ve lost VVD's goal threat from set pieces which was another way we broke down stubborn defences in the last two seasons or so.
But yeah we really could have done with Jota in these recent matches.
This is ducking the issue.
We had enough chances to win the match yesterday with some eminently convertible chances. Should have had at least two goals by the 30th minute. Why do we keep talking about defenders as if we conceded a shedload? Time to look the problems squarely in the eye-- it's the forwards not the defenders who are letting the side down with diabolical finishing and poor decisions-- how many times did Robertson find himself in open space with Firmino choosing the wrong option each time 😡
As somebody said, we're missing Jota more than we're missing van Dijk.
Fortunately, Klopp himself realises which problems need addressing.
We had enough chances to win the match yesterday with some eminently convertible chances. Should have had at least two goals by the 30th minute. Why do we keep talking about defenders as if we conceded a shedload? Time to look the problems squarely in the eye-- it's the forwards not the defenders who are letting the side down with diabolical finishing and poor decisions-- how many times did Robertson find himself in open space with Firmino choosing the wrong option each time 😡
As somebody said, we're missing Jota more than we're missing van Dijk.
Fortunately, Klopp himself realises which problems need addressing.
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