Liverpool set sights on Town star

[Avmenon]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42355.msg1203304#msg1203304 date=1287730255]
> bunnyman the slack-jawed yokel.

> avy: errrr, right yeah. bale, ramsey, walcott - 3 players who are obviously never going to be good enough for liverpool. oh no, actually now i think, 3 players who are more than good enough for us *right now*. but, whatever, you get the general idea.
[/quote]

Well, I'm sure I can find 2 or 3 or 37 young stars who wont make that grade, especially at Liverpool.

 

[peterhague]

fire away mate. i did after all say i'm sure there are some but i couldn't think, so i'd be grateful if you helped me out.

 

[Fabio]

Freddy Adu was touted as being the dogs and he was shit

less shit now hes at benfica.....even if he has been loaned to aris

 

[Avmenon]

There have been some successes and some promising ones of course, like Pacheco and Shelvey..

I don't know, maybe you have to get in 20 players to unearth one decent one.

Seems there has to be a better way though.

(These are over the past 5 years, but I hadnt included Houillier's players coz I think I might break the forum if I did)

There's a lot of young names in there that are pretty rubbish.


Player Signed Cost Came from
Fernando Torres July 2007 20,200,000 Atletico Madrid
Alberto Aquilani August 2009 20,000,000 AS Roma
Robbie Keane July 28 2008 19,000,000 Tottenham Hotspur
Javier Mascherano January 2007 18,000,000 West Ham United
Glen Johnson 22 June 2009 17,500,000 Portsmouth
Ryan Babel July 2007 11,500,000 Ajax
Xabi Alonso August 20th 2004 10,750,000 Real Sociedad
Dirk Kuyt August 18 2006 9,000,000 Feyenoord
Albert Riera September 1 2008 8,000,000 Espanyol
Andrea Dossena July 2008 7,000,000 Udinese
Peter Crouch July 20th 2005 7,000,000 Southampton
Lucas Leiva 11 May 2007 6,750,000 Gremio
Jermaine Pennant July 26 2006 6,700,000 Birmingham City
Martin Skrtel 11 January 2008 6,500,000 Zenit St Petersburg
Jose Reina July 4th 2005 6,000,000 Villareal
Luis Garcia August 20th 2004 6,000,000 Barcelona
Craig Bellamy July 1st 2006 6,000,000 Blackburn Rovers
Dan Agger January 2006 5,800,000 Brondby
Mohammed Sissoko July 2005 5,600,000 Valencia
Fernando Morientes January 2005 5,500,000 Real Madrid
Yossi Benayoun July 2007 5,000,000 West Ham United
Diego Cavalieri July 2008 4,000,000 Palmeiras
Alvaro Arbeloa January 31 2007 2,600,000 Deportivo La Coruna
Sebastian Leto July 2007 2,500,000 Lanus
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) July 2004 2,000,000 CD Malaga
Gabriel Paletta July 1st 2006 2,000,000 Banfield
Jonjo Shelvey 10 May 2010 1,700,000 Charlton Athletic
Mark Gonzalez July 4th 2005 1,500,000 Albacete
David Ngog July 24 2008 1,500,000 Paris St Germain
Sotirios Kyrgiakos 21 August 2009 1,500,000 AEK Athens
Scott Carson January 21st 2005 750,000 Leeds United
Mikel San Jose July 2007 270,000 Athletic Bilbao
David Martin January 2006 250,000 MK Dons
Antonio Barragan July 4th 2005 240,000 Sevilla
Besian Idrizaj August 2005 190,000 Linzer ASK
Jack Hobbs August 2005 150,000 Lincoln City
Alex Cooper January 2008 100,000 Ross County
Alexander Kacaniklic June 2007 75,000 Helsingborgs
Philipp Degen July 1 2008 0 Borussia Dortmund
Chris Buchtmann January 2008 0 Borussia Dortmund
Fabio Aurelio July 5 2006 0 Valencia
Hakan Duyan June 2008 0
Daniel Ayala July 2007 0 Sevilla
Gerardo Bruna September 2007 0 Real Madrid
Lauri Dalla Valle January 2008 0 Jippo
Damien Plessis August 2007 0 Lyon
Peter Gulacsi 1 September 2008 0 MTK Hungaria
Charles Itandje August 2007 0 Lens
Lee Peltier July 2005 0 Trainee
Jan Kromkamp January 2006 0 Villareal
Boudewijn Zenden July 4th 2005 0 Middlesbrough
Jakub Sokolik August 2009 0 Banik Ostrava
Jamie Stephens April 5th 2010 0 Swindon Town
Maxi Rodriguez January 2010 0 Atletico Madrid
Kristjan Gauti Emilsson January 2010 0 FH Hafnarfjordur
Dave Moli December 2009 0 Luton Town
Antonio Nunez August 2004 0 Real Madrid
Nicolaj Beier Kohlert July 2009 0 Esbjerg fB
Chris Mavinga July 8 2009 0 Paris St Germain
Mauricio Pellegrino January 2005 0 Valencia
Victor Palsson January 2009 0 AGF Arhus
Paul Willis July 2005 0 Trainee
Vitor Flora September 1 2008 0 Botafogo FC
Emmanuel Mendy July 23 2008 0 Murcia Deportivo
Nikola Saric July 2008 0 Herfolge
Vincent Lucas Weijl July 2008 0 AZ Alkmaar
Ryan Crowther July 2007 0 Stockport County
Mihail Alexandrov July 2007 0 CSKA Sofia
Dani Pacheco July 2007 0 Barcelona
Jordy Brouwer January 2007 0 Ajax
Francisco Manuel Duran January 2007 0 Malaga
Emiliano Insua January 2007 0 Boca Juniors
Ray Putterill June 2007 0 Trainee
Martin Hansen June 2007 0 Trainee
Jay Spearing June 2007 0 Trainee
Dave Roberts July 2006 0 Trainee
David Mannix July 2004 0 Trainee
Ryan Flynn July 2006 0 Trainee
Robbie Threlfall July 2006 0 Trainee
Godwin Antwi August 2005 0 Real Zaragoza
Stephen Darby July 2006 0 Trainee
Miki Roque August 2005 0 Llieda
Nabir El Zhar June 2006 0 St Etienne
Mark Smyth June 2004 0 Trainee
Ronald Huth January 2007 0 Tacuary FC
Martin Kelly August 2007 0 Trainee
Steve Irwin July 2008 0 Trainee
Marvin Pourie July 2007 0 Borussia Dortmund
Nikolay Mihaylov July 2007 0 Levski Sofia
Paul Anderson January 2006 0 Hull City
Gary Mackay Steven June 2007 0 Ross County
Andras Simon 27 May 2007 0 MTK Hungaria
Krisztian Nemeth 27 May 2007 0 MTK Hungaria
Danny Guthrie July 2005 0 Trainee
Andriy Voronin July 2007 0 Bayer Leverkusen
Adam Hammill January 2006 0 Trainee
Robbie Fowler January 2006 0 Manchester City
Ryan Wilkie July 2005 0 Trainee
Calum Woods January 2006 0 Trainee
Craig Lindfield July 2006 0 Trainee
Danny O'Donnell July 2005 0 Trainee
Ramon Calliste August 2005 0 Manchester United
Jay Smith July 2005 0 Trainee

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42355.msg1203328#msg1203328 date=1287731792]
Freddy Adu was touted as being the dogs and he was shit

less shit now hes at benfica.....even if he has been loaned to aris
[/quote]


not really the sort of player i'm talking about old bean. i suppose it's more the likes of jon bostock or fabian delph, but they still never had the same level of promise as the 3 i mentioned, and i don't think they went for much money either, so don't really fit the bill.

 

[Avmenon]

But I agree with your point though.

The outstanding ones should get some attention from us.

I just think that going after as many young stars as possible is a bit scatter-shot.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42355.msg1203334#msg1203334 date=1287732242]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42355.msg1203328#msg1203328 date=1287731792]
Freddy Adu was touted as being the dogs and he was shit

less shit now hes at benfica.....even if he has been loaned to aris
[/quote]


not really the sort of player i'm talking about old bean. i suppose it's more the likes of jon bostock or fabian delph, but they still never had the same level of promise as the 3 i mentioned, and i don't think they went for much money either, so don't really fit the bill.
[/quote]

ahhhhhhh i get you. High cost alleged talent from lower league

i'll have a ponder

 

[Fabio]

Thought of one. That michael johnson from city was touted for AAAAAAAGES as a possible replacement for gerrard, and the lad did have undoubted talent, plus stupid money was touted for him. Shame he got injured and fat

although this is more bullet dodged than purchased

hmm

 

[peterhague]

right avy, i'm convinced now you just didn't read my post.

i'm talking about these ultra-hyped young british prodigies that all big clubs chase but still only go for fairly modest fees: walcott, ramsey, bale.

what are you talking about?

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42355.msg1203342#msg1203342 date=1287732454]
right avy, i'm convinced now you just didn't read my post.

i'm talking about these ultra-hyped young british prodigies that all big clubs chase but still only go for fairly modest fees: walcott, ramsey, bale.

what are you talking about?
[/quote]

Soz.

I get what you mean now.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42355.msg1203339#msg1203339 date=1287732414]
Thought of one. That michael johnson from city was touted for AAAAAAAGES as a possible replacement for gerrard, and the lad did have undoubted talent, plus stupid money was touted for him. Shame he got injured and fat

although this is more bullet dodged than purchased

hmm
[/quote]

that's not a bad shout, actually. we were meant to be in for him for £6m or so i think, so he could definitely apply. micah richards as well.

 

[Avmenon]

Wright Phillips?

 

[Avmenon]

Oo, I've got one.

HOw about that TOnge bastard from Sheffield United?

We were supposed to be in for him at pretty big money, boyhood red bla bla...

 

[Fabio]

Thing is, a club of our size should always be in for youth talent, HOWEVER the problem we have is our scouting system or our financial constraints. When the likes of bale, walcott etc were being sold we were in a financial black hole and couldn't justify 5m+ on a player who might make it. Now we're out of the black hole however our scouts couldn't spot a whore in a brothel so we're still fucked. We're only linked to wickham because there has been chatter about this kid for over a year. i don't watch lower league, or even overly care about it, yet i've heard of him. Like romelu lukaku at anderlecht, i've only heard of him because i know people who have watched anderlecht a few times. I've never seen him play, but i know he's good.

i think thats how our scout operate

 

[peterhague]

SWP is a good player, isn't he? although again i don't think he applies because he was never prodigious - i think he was into his 20s before he got a chance at city.


michael tonge....was there really a clamour to sign him? tom huddlestone's probably more like it, but then he's turned out a pretty good player himself.


i mentioned fabian delph before, he might be the best example. he didn't go for much in the end, but there was definitely a lot of noise about him for a while, and he seems to have done asolutely fuck all at villa, unless i've missed a major injury or something.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42355.msg1203355#msg1203355 date=1287733064]
Thing is, a club of our size should always be in for youth talent, HOWEVER the problem we have is our scouting system or our financial constraints. When the likes of bale, walcott etc were being sold we were in a financial black hole and couldn't justify 5m+ on a player who might make it. Now we're out of the black hole however our scouts couldn't spot a whore in a brothel so we're still fucked. We're only linked to wickham because there has been chatter about this kid for over a year. i don't watch lower league, or even overly care about it, yet i've heard of him. Like romelu lukaku at anderlecht, i've only heard of him because i know people who have watched anderlecht a few times. I've never seen him play, but i know he's good.

i think thats how our scout operate
[/quote]
I think it's probably a bit of both really. We certainly were interested in both Bale and Walcott at the time, didn't we even place a bid for Theo only to be outmuscled financially yet again?

There are signs however that things are looking up in the scouting department area. Shelvey for starters actually looks like a proper English talent and it's certainly been a while since we've had one of those. A few of the young players we are apparently looking at around Europe certainly fills me with optimism too.

Have never seen Wickham play but the fact we've lured players like Raheem Sterling, Sosu and Wilson already tells us that we're not that far of the pace when it comes to snapping up the best talents around.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=42355.msg1203440#msg1203440 date=1287738191]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42355.msg1203355#msg1203355 date=1287733064]
Thing is, a club of our size should always be in for youth talent, HOWEVER the problem we have is our scouting system or our financial constraints. When the likes of bale, walcott etc were being sold we were in a financial black hole and couldn't justify 5m+ on a player who might make it. Now we're out of the black hole however our scouts couldn't spot a whore in a brothel so we're still fucked. We're only linked to wickham because there has been chatter about this kid for over a year. i don't watch lower league, or even overly care about it, yet i've heard of him. Like romelu lukaku at anderlecht, i've only heard of him because i know people who have watched anderlecht a few times. I've never seen him play, but i know he's good.

i think thats how our scout operate
[/quote]
I think it's probably a bit of both really. We certainly were interested in both Bale and Walcott at the time, didn't we even place a bid for Theo only to be outmuscled financially yet again?

There are signs however that things are looking up in the scouting department area. Shelvey for starters actually looks like a proper English talent and it's certainly been a while since we've had one of those. A few of the young players we are apparently looking at around Europe certainly fills me with optimism too.

Have never seen Wickham play but the fact we've lured players like Raheem Sterling, Sosu and Wilson already tells us that we're not that far of the pace when it comes to snapping up the best talents around.
[/quote]

i'll change my viewpoint when one of supposed youth talents performs consistently at a top level for us in the league

until then these kids, while promising, have shown nothing to suggest they'll be great players.

 

[DHSC]

How about the Leeds kids that Chelsea got?

Tom Taiwo and Danny Rose?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=42355.msg1203454#msg1203454 date=1287738992]
How about the Leeds kids that Chelsea got?

Tom Taiwo and Danny Rose?
[/quote]


Danny Rose plays for spurs doesn't he? btw, if ever we're going to get a british jewish footballer playing in the premier league, i'm thinking it's got to be Danny Rose coming throgh the ranks at Tottenham, and then i see him and it turns out he's only black.

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42355.msg1203462#msg1203462 date=1287739626]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=42355.msg1203454#msg1203454 date=1287738992]
How about the Leeds kids that Chelsea got?

Tom Taiwo and Danny Rose?
[/quote]


Danny Rose plays for spurs doesn't he? btw, if ever we're going to get a british jewish footballer playing in the premier league, i'm thinking it's got to be Danny Rose coming throgh the ranks at Tottenham, and then i see him and it turns out he's only black.
[/quote]

Ooops its Michael Woods, not Danny Rose.

Woods turned down a scholarship from Leeds United to sign for Chelsea. Leeds United chairman Ken Bates accused Chelsea of tapping-up the sixteen-year-old as well as two other academy players.[1] Eventually the two clubs later agreed an out-of-court settlement, with Chelsea paying £5 million in compensation for Woods and Tom Taiwo.[2]

After spending time in the reserves, Woods made his first-team debut for Chelsea at Stamford Bridge against Macclesfield Town in the third round of the FA Cup on 6 January 2007, making him the fourth-youngest player to ever play for Chelsea at 16 years and 275 days old.[3] He came on as a substitute for Frank Lampard in the 79th minute. He currently has two appearances for Chelsea in the FA Cup, but is yet to make his Premier League debut. Although his progress was interrupted by a series of injuries, he has been ever-present in the reserves.

Taiwo joined Chelsea from Leeds United along with Michael Woods in a controversial move after Ken Bates accused Chelsea of tapping up the youngsters.[2]

Taiwo joined League Two club Port Vale on a month's loan in August 2008. He made his debut, coming on as a substitute in the 61st minute, at home to Bournemouth, in the 3–1 win in League Two on 30 August.[3] Vale sent him back to Chelsea in September after they decided not to extend his loan.[4]

Taiwo went on a trial with Seattle Sounders FC of Major League Soccer in the middle of March 2009.[5]

In July 2009, Carlisle United announced they had signed Taiwo on loan until the end of December.[6] Taiwo scored his first goal for Carlisle in a 3-2 league victory over rivals Hartlepool. On 6 January 2010, Carlisle signed Taiwo from Chelsea permanently on a two-and-a-half-year contract.[7]

 

[Hansern]

Julian Joachim??

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42355.msg1203192#msg1203192 date=1287702403]
[quote author=My_Blood_Bleeds_Red link=topic=42355.msg1203187#msg1203187 date=1287701186]
So what ?

What's the point buying all these 'prodigies' when we hardly get a chance to see them play ?

Jonjo Shelvey, Raheem Sterling, Pacheco, Pongolle, Le Tallec and many, many more whose names I don't even remember now.
[/quote]

They don't get a chance cos they're hardly ever good enough.

Proof of that usually comes from the fact that they move on to shit clubs like Leicester, Notts County and the fucking like after leaving us. And sit on the bench there too.
[/quote]

That's why they were spotted and signed for their potential. The potential to eventually come good.
I'd like to believe that part of their development involves playing them in games, esp. games that help accelerate their progress and not some reserve match that let's admit it, even if you had a shite game, you'll still get a look-in the following week. There isn't that kick up their arse urgency to get them going.

Ferguson and Wenger are fine examples of blooding youths into their first team.

A lot of the 'prodigies' we have signed in the past were all touted to be the next so and so, and this view usually resonated to top clubs' scouts who had been watching them for quite awhile too so that means a collective of scouts couldn't have been all wrong together.

So then, why is it when these 'prodigies' join our setup, there's almost a feeling of certainty (well, at least based on my observation for the last 10 years as a fan) that their progress would be stunted and none would ever make the grade ?

It's either our youth setup is absolutely shite (which can't be entirely true cos we've been revamping it and changing coaches numerous times) or there's just something seriously wrong within our club, of which I can't identify.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I've just bought him on fifa 😉

 

[gene hughes]

There's always risk but if you're really looking at spending 10m per annum and only buying the 2 hottest prospects to emerge (rather than 10) you'd probably have some returns.

 

[keniget]

It would seem to me that there are some cases where you just know your money is safe. Even if the player doesn't ultimately make it with you, there is enough talent there - usually reflected in the price you pay for him - to ensure you can sell him on.

Can someone post a list of youngsters who clubs paid big money for in the last 5 years or so who have failed to make the grade?

I can't think of that many. The only one that springs to mind at the moment is Gago.

 

[Squiggles]

Is Gago really that bad?

City also tried to buy him last January for £16M only for it to fall through due to a lack of time. And he's played loads of games at Madrid.

 

[keniget]

He hasn't really shown enough for a player billed as the new Redondo. They paid 20M for him and then went all out to get Alonso... although I know that' on it's own, that's not an entirely convincing argument given that it's Madrid.

 

[gene hughes]

Aguero, Pato, Pastore ... none look like big risks now! If a club had those three you wouldn't need to spend much on attacking talent over the next 7-8 years.

In England Bale, Walcott, Rooney, Ferdinand (when leds bought him) have all been expensive youngsters.

I'm probably forgetting all the expesive flops though, the only ones that spring to mind are Mark kennedy (when we bought him) and Pennant (when he left Notts County).

 

[manwithnoname]

We have a poor record with buying prospects at high prices, all the way back to Mark Kennedy, and Wayne Harrison before him.

Mind you, Hansen and Rush were OK

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42355.msg1203881#msg1203881 date=1287773998]
He hasn't really shown enough for a player billed as the new Redondo. They paid 20M for him and then went all out to get Alonso... although I know that' on it's own, that's not an entirely convincing argument given that it's Madrid.
[/quote]

Ah, I thought that £20M included Higuan, but apparently not.

Babel and Francis Jeffers were two expensive punts at the time who have failed.