Klopp Needs To Loook At Himself

[Markeh]

Not just that. Every one of Hendo, Fabinho and Thiago seem to need energy around them but which of them actually warrants the luxury of being surrounded by energy? In the interim at least the answer is Thiago, the other two can barely pass or control the ball at the moment.

Unfortunately the top end of the premier league doesn’t seem like a place for an aging quarterback type in midfield so even his days might be numbered.

 

[Frogfish]

This is so confusing. I cant handle this multiple villains. I need one person to act as a scape goat - Kornmeyer or Lijnders or Henry. I hope those in the know provide a clear picture on whom I should focus my frustrations on.

To me it reads like Reddy is throwing darts willy nilly. She's rehashed the 'done to death' midfield issues whilst throwing a spotlight on those that have departed. I don't see how their departure has had any direct negative effect.

Transfers have been of good players (if not in the right areas - though we all know that the forward line was due a refresh too) and no more or less money than previously seems to have been available. The stats guys leaving doesn't mean we don't have a wealth of data that they've already accumulated and has been discussed by committee - so why isn't it having an effect? Or maybe it has.

As far as medical staff go : we've all moaned about our horrendous injury list a couple of years back - so this probably isn't directly related to that staffing turnover either - in fact that turnover may be directly due to pressure put on them for NOT performing, seeing returning players break down again for example.

People move on in life, higher salary offers, personal situations, de facto (though not public) firings or just natural 'end of effective life' situations, this doesn't mean that there is all out war going on behind the scenes. Staffing-wise we were never going to stay still no matter how well your business is run (when I ran my own company, 20 staff, and we were flying, that's when I had the most staffing issues - as our competitors recognised this and came in to steal high-performing staff offering excellent packages that were difficult to match).

To me it seems Reddy has jumped on this situation as article-worthy, even if it may not reflect the actual situation. I don't know, it may do, however it doesn't look/feel like it to me, whereas other factors (particularly a mentally & physically over-tired & aging squad) are not being sufficiently taken into account (in that article) and recognised as being the real explanation behind the drastic performance decline.

A refresh in a few positions (2-3 x MF and a CB) and a proper Summer break and I can see us re-energised and challenging again next season.

 

[Red Bird]

Check this for an unpopular opinion - Thiago's shit.

What does he bring to the team?

Positives - he spots a pass, he calms stuff
Negatives - he's about as mobile as Steven Hawking's corpse

He's part of the problem. We need energy, he has none. How many great games has he had? Man U when we beat them 4 or 5 nil? He was imperious.

He's a player who, when everything's going well, he's an added dimension. When you're scrapping, he's next to useless.

Slotting into the best team in the league, which we were, he looked ace. Pulling the same team out of the mire, he's worthless. Great at Barca, Bayern and Liverpool when they're ace, not when they're shite.

I think his negatives are being exaggerated here — he’s never been a mobile box to box but he’s a bit like Alonso— but his positives, in any case, are far better than any of the our other midfielders’. By a bloody country mile. At the moment Henderson and Fabinho bring absolutely nothing to the team. Nothing at all.

 

[Farkmaster]

Not just that. Every one of Hendo, Fabinho and Thiago seem to need energy around them but which of them actually warrants the luxury of being surrounded by energy? In the interim at least the answer is Thiago, the other two can barely pass or control the ball at the moment.

Unfortunately the top end of the premier league doesn’t seem like a place for an aging quarterback type in midfield so even his days might be numbered.

That's correct. Especially in Henderson's case. He cannot need the energy, because he was the energy around others.

 

[peekay]

To me it reads like Reddy is throwing darts willy nilly. She's rehashed the 'done to death' midfield issues whilst throwing a spotlight on those that have departed. I don't see how their departure has had any direct negative effect.

Transfers have been of good players (if not in the right areas - though we all know that the forward line was due a refresh too) and no more or less money than previously seems to have been available. The stats guys leaving doesn't mean we don't have a wealth of data that they've already accumulated and has been discussed by committee - so why isn't it having an effect? Or maybe it has.

As far as medical staff go : we've all moaned about our horrendous injury list a couple of years back - so this probably isn't directly related to that staffing turnover either - in fact that turnover may be directly due to pressure put on them for NOT performing, seeing returning players break down again for example.

People move on in life, higher salary offers, personal situations, de facto (though not public) firings or just natural 'end of effective life' situations, this doesn't mean that there is all out war going on behind the scenes. Staffing-wise we were never going to stay still no matter how well your business is run (when I ran my own company, 20 staff, and we were flying, that's when I had the most staffing issues - as our competitors recognised this and came in to steal high-performing staff offering excellent packages that were difficult to match).

To me it seems Reddy has jumped on this situation as article-worthy, even if it may not reflect the actual situation. I don't know, it may do, however it doesn't look/feel like it to me, whereas other factors (particularly a mentally & physically over-tired & aging squad) are not being sufficiently taken into account (in that article) and recognised as being the real explanation behind the drastic performance decline.

A refresh in a few positions (2-3 x MF and a CB) and a proper Summer break and I can see us re-energised and challenging again next season.

I am not as optimistic as you but I agree with your general sentiment. When we are doing good, the journos just continuously praise us and when we slip up, they try to find all sorts of issues. It is all about going with the flow and trend with no sense of critical thinking.

Truth is our scouting and recruiting was not as good as the journos made it out to be when we were good. We made some insanely good purchases but we have had some failures also. So it was not all perfect.

The exodus of people behind the scenes does worry me. But I believe, or atleast I hope, that there is a plan. I am guessing Klopp is looking for midfielders with very specific attributes who will be signed in the summer and then the new team will come together. I am not that optimistic but this is what I am choosing to believe in, now.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Let's be honest... his loyalty and lack of flexibility has always been his weakness ...

He should be playing 5'4'1 going for 1-0 wins to build some confidence etc ...

This team is finished and may yet even get in a relegation battle ..

 

[King Binny]

The fact that so many backroom staffs left/are leaving one after another surely aren't coincidence. I'm just kind of surprised that Klopp signed his extension. He needs help, loads of them, from various parties. Not sure if he'll get them though. Would be sad to see things end on a sour note.

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah, I'm actually thinking this "team" will get sucked into a relegation battle now.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Nah. It's an end of an era. Curtains. Show's over.

Very obvious the entire data team and Edwards were leaving a sinking ship.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

When your club doctor, an integral member of your first team staff leaves on the eve of the new season, and it takes them 4 months to find a replacement, you just know something's not right behind the scenes.

 

[Farkmaster]

He should be playing 5'4'1 going for 1-0 wins to build some confidence etc ...

This team is finished and may yet even get in a relegation battle ..

What is the convincing 5-4-1 we could play? I'm all for getting wild, but why not just play doak or something, any combination of the players we saw today (we had few options) plus nat Phillips is going to get shit on.

And who exactly is going to be the lone striker?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

What is the convincing 5-4-1 we could play? I'm all for getting wild, but why not just play doak or something, any combination of the players we saw today (we had few options) plus nat Phillips is going to get shit on.

And who exactly is going to be the lone striker?

I'd go with

Taa matip Phillip's gomez robbo

Hendo badger thiago
Elliot

Salah

Make the middle tougher to bypass ...

 

[tomasjj]

we set up shop tighter and more defensive in the fall, so we can do it again

 

[Red Bird]

I'd go with

Taa matip Phillip's gomez robbo

Hendo badger thiago
Elliot

Salah

Make the middle tougher to bypass ...

They’ll simply get in each other’s way at the back.

No, 4-5-1 maybe be a better option, and not just by padding the middle with obvious players; so no Henderson or Fabinho. They aren’t producing and haven’t largely produced this season.

Phillips is a good shout at the back, though. We may even win some aerial challenges. I’d seriously drop Salah and play Núnez at the tip with Gakpo just behind him. The problem is that Klopp’s too conservative in his selections and formations and isn’t going suddenly to jettison Salah which is why he’s going to plod along, profess shock and loss of words etc.

Sigh…

 

[MomoWASright]

4-5-1

Ali

Milner
Nat
VVD
Robertson

Elliott
Badger
Thiago
Klopp
Tsimikas

Donkey

 

[Farkmaster]

We didn't have vvd to play.

 

[Farkmaster]

I'd go with

Taa matip Phillip's gomez robbo

Hendo badger thiago
Elliot

Salah

Make the middle tougher to bypass ...

Look at the state of that.

 

[MomoWASright]

We didn't have vvd to play.

We will next week.

 

[Farkmaster]

We will next week.

I don't think that will happen. Set back or just not ready. You basically just need to think "how could this get worse" and you can see the future right now.

By the way, everyone saying vvd "needed a rest" has seen how much better a diminished vvd is compared to the totally at sea thing.

 

[Squiggles]

The longer Klopp persists with a failing 4-3-3 system the more responsibly falls on his shoulders. I'd care less about the defeat it we were experimenting and seeing some progress, but the fact is anyone could have scripted the key actions and result way before the game started. It's not good enough.

 

[The Nomad]

Klopp vs Pearce.. what's all that about?

 

[Farkmaster]

The way our team has been playing 433 compared to usual may as well be a different set of numbers. It hasn't worked but it's not because we aren't trying to do anything differently.

The pick another formation, followed by an equally shit looking arrangement of shit, is just one of the various necessary ways that supporters digest grief.

 

[rurikbird]

The way our team has been playing 433 compared to usual may as well be a different set of numbers. It hasn't worked but it's not because we aren't trying to do anything differently.

The pick another formation, followed by an equally shit looking arrangement of shit, is just one of the various necessary ways that supporters digest grief.

I completely disagree with this, mate. We have enough quality in the squad to be better than most teams if the tactics reflected the qualities of the squad as it is, not as it was 2 years ago. Play deeper and more compact, get Nunez and a couple of others playing on the counter with space to run into and you will start getting positive results, players' morale and confidence will improve and you can build from there.

You don't need to imagine it, look at this Fall – after the humbling at Napoli and the 3:3 draw with Brighton (seems like a decent result now, doesn't it? We actually scored 3 goals in one game, imagine that), Klopp switched to 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 for the rest of the season and results and performances improved to the point that the World Cup break seemed to come in an inopportune time. Unfortunately after the break he went back to the formula that didn't work and keeps doubling down on it. Anyone could have predicted that once Konate got injured, Gomez and Matip playing a high line together with inconsistent protection from the midfield would be a disaster – this is on the manager for making his players look worse than they are.

 

[Farkmaster]

I completely disagree with this, mate. We have enough quality in the squad to be better than most teams if the tactics reflected the qualities of the squad as it is, not as it was 2 years ago. Play deeper and more compact, get Nunez and a couple of others playing on the counter with space to run into and you will start getting positive results, players' morale and confidence will improve and you can build from there.

You don't need to imagine it, look at this Fall – after the humbling at Napoli and the 3:3 draw with Brighton (seems like good result now, doesn't it? We actually scored 3 goals in one game, imagine that), Klopp switched to 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 for the rest of the season and results and performances improved to the point that the World Cup break seemed to come in an inopportune time. Unfortunately after the break he went back to the formula that didn't work and keeps doubling down on it. Anyone could have predicted that once Konate got injured, Gomez and Matip playing a high line together with inconsistent protection from the midfield would be a disaster – this is on the manager for making his players look worse than they are.

I must have missed where we lost this game because we were pressed up high and didn't have protection from our midfield. We were passed through, in a set defensive block, completely flat footed, due to woeful pressure on the ball and a failure to track runners.

The second was again, a second ball, woeful pressure on the ball.

The third is meaningless. We can sit back then if you want and it'll be 3-0 or 2-0.

Any team, set up in any way you can fucking think of, that makes these failures, in application, in closing down, in intensity, combined with individual lack of focus, will not win football games. Take the Christmas tree, flip it upside down, shove it up a false 9s arsehole of your choosing, and it'll still be a pile of shit if we can't maintain some degree of professional focus. Watch those goals again and tell me it's the system.

 

[binomial]

Klopp vs Pearce.. what's all that about?

Pearce being Pearce the little condescending fucking nark.

Thinks he knows all the answers the divvy.

 

[binomial]

Klopp should protect his mental health and walk, don't let this shambles of a club take years off your retirement....go and spend time with your beautiful family. You've done everything we couldv'e ever imagined and more.

 

[rurikbird]

I must have missed where we lost this game because we were pressed up high and didn't have protection from our midfield. We were passed through, in a set defensive block, completely flat footed, due to woeful pressure on the ball and a failure to track runners.

The second was again, a second ball, woeful pressure on the ball.

The third is meaningless. We can sit back then if you want and it'll be 3-0 or 2-0.

Any team, set up in any way you can fucking think of, that makes these failures, in application, in closing down, in intensity, combined with individual lack of focus, will not win football games. Take the Christmas tree, flip it upside down, shove it up a false 9s arsehole of your choosing, and it'll still be a pile of shit if we can't maintain some degree of professional focus. Watch those goals again and tell me it's the system.

These things are connected – players and coaches can try to "work on their confidence" for a whole week in training, but on the pitch it very quickly becomes apparent what players actually think about themselves, their partners and system. Is it possible to set up a workable defence with these players? Yes, it's possible – but you need to sacrifice some things for this to work, more compact means less pressing, less space, more overall focus on the defensive side of the game. For whatever reason, Klopp doesn't want to make these sacrifices; he is asking Bajcetic, Keita and Thiago to run all over the place to support the front 3, as if they are prime Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum and for Gomez and Matip to do Van Dijk and Konate's job as all-around enforcers when they are so much slower and weaker. Deep down the players know it won't work and the plan quickly disintegrates once we concede.

So in short, it's not just the formation or the tactical system, it's the whole approach. Dyche came to Everton and suddenly the players are running more than they ever did at any point this season and the defence is sharp and focused. We're currently focusing on the wrong things.

 

[Farkmaster]

These things are connected – players and coaches can try to "work on their confidence" for a whole week in training, but on the pitch it very quickly becomes apparent what players actually think about themselves, their partners and system. Is it possible to set up a workable defence with these players? Yes, it's possible – but you need to sacrifice some things for this to work, more compact means less pressing, less space, more overall focus on the defensive side of the game. For whatever reason, Klopp doesn't want to make these sacrifices; he is asking Bajcetic, Keita and Thiago to run all over the place to support the front 3 and Gomez and Matip have to cover. Deep down the players know it won't work and the plan quickly disintegrates once we concede.

So in short, it's not just the formation or the tactical system, it's the whole approach. Dyche came to Everton and suddenly the players are running more than they ever did at any point this season and the defence is sharp and focused. We're currently focusing on the wrong things.

We were defensively set, and quite compact for the first goal. No systemic change is going to fix players sleep walking around. Why did we play with some degree of confidence once the game was over, in a much more vulnerable and expansive system?

 

[rurikbird]

We were defensively set, and quite compact for the first goal. No systemic change is going to fix players sleep walking around.

My theory is that they are not sleep-walking or lazy, they are terrified because each player is asked to do too much and every breakdown can be catastrophic. They need simpler system, simpler instructions, more fail-safe mechanisms at every juncture. Klopp used to be a master of this.

Why did we play with some degree of confidence once the game was over, in a much more vulnerable and expansive system?

I saw this as some kind of desperate death throes, but it's actually a good question – maybe once the pressure is off, some players actually perform better. That's a bad sign, if so – this disease is called spursitis and takes years to cure.

 

[MomoWASright]

We were defensively set, and quite compact for the first goal. No systemic change is going to fix players sleep walking around. Why did we play with some degree of confidence once the game was over, in a much more vulnerable and expansive system?

Because they got fucking bollocked at half time.