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Klopp Needs To Loook At Himself

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Look at the state of that.

We need to get our fbs attacking more, we need to stuff the middle and we need to give mo more chances to try and get going ... I think that it has a better chance of working that a persistent 4 3 3 where our midfield gets bypassed and our fbs cannot attack as frequently because of it.
 
Your theory makes no sense. That first goal isn't complicated defending or being asked to do too much, its failing to do the bare minimum.

As momo says, it stops when they get bollocked, but also because pressures off. Their attitude is fucked. When klopp talks about body language it's players fucking making half hearted attempts to stop a cross. That can't fucking happen. It can't happen in a low block, it can't happen when you are being compact. The way we played in the first quarter hour of that game wasn't expansive or complicated. It was a shit version of how we've approached the last few games, woefully lacking in application.
 
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We need to get our fbs attacking more, we need to stuff the middle and we need to give mo more chances to try and get going ... I think that it has a better chance of working that a persistent 4 3 3 where our midfield gets bypassed and our fbs cannot attack as frequently because of it.

If we play with wingbacks a simple diagonal ball down the wing will absolutely destroy us right now. What I'm saying though, is forget about that. Play whatever way you fucking want to. If you don't win first and second balls or get out to crosses you're fucked. We threw away the game almost immediately and it was attitude and basics, and had fuck all to do with the system, which is a rearrangement of deckchairs on the titanic with that sort of defending.
 
Sorry Fark, generally agree with you on most things but your argument is treading mighty close to Ross' managers don't make a difference line.

You also seem to be completely disregarding the psychological element in sport which does play a significant factor. A succession of shit individual mistakes could be explained away by shitness but they could also be explained in part by low confidence and the other shit that Rurik said that I can't be bothered to repeat.

If nothing else, Klopp needs to be seen to be doing something. Nobody believes we are getting top 4 or achieving anything of note this season. We just need to recover some level of respect and form that we can take into the summer and next season.
 
Sorry Fark, generally agree with you on most things but your argument is treading mighty close to Ross' managers don't make a difference line.

You also seem to be completely disregarding the psychological element in sport which does play a significant factor. A succession of shit individual mistakes could be explained away by shitness but they could also be explained in part by low confidence and the other shit that Rurik said that I can't be bothered to repeat.

If nothing else, Klopp needs to be seen to be doing something. Nobody believes we are getting top 4 or achieving anything of note this season. We just need to recover some level of respect and form that we can take into the summer and next season.

I'm not saying that Klopp doesn't need to change things around, I'm questioning whether that's a meaningless tautology. We're fucking losing games! We'd rather not be! What I've been responding to here is the odd consensus that he IS stubbornly putting the same team out and NOT changing things. I think we have tried to play in quite significantly different ways, that aren't in anyway encapsulated by "it's still a 4-3-3."


I agree that there is a massive issue in confidence. That is part of my point. Whatever formation each armchair general thinks would solve our problems, the players still have to not just take pictures, watch the other team passing, and close down crosses. They have to be decisive.

We're sending rusty players and shot players, and benched starters back into our worst run of form in god knows how long. And imagine that, they're shit.


Oddly enough, I thought we should have stayed with our front three in the exact same way we had been playing it. Gakpo central etc. etc.

And that wouldn't have made a fucking bit of difference to the two goals that cost us this game.
 
Thiago shit. He's a codswallop cunt. Great when you're beating Bayern 5-0, shite when you're playing Wolves in January. Play Jones instead.
 
I agree that there is a massive issue in confidence. That is part of my point. Whatever formation each armchair general thinks would solve our problems, the players still have to not just take pictures, watch the other team passing, and close down crosses. They have to be decisive.

We're sending rusty players and shot players, and benched starters back into our worst run of form in god knows how long. And imagine that, they're shit.

Agree with a lot of it, but that’s my point - when the team is hurting and low on confidence - you don’t turn it around by asking your players to dominate games when deep down they know they don’t have what it takes. You don’t spend your time teaching a new signing to master a tactically sophisticated false 9 role while everything around him is crashing and burning (and then shifting him back on the wing just as he seemed to start getting more comfortable). You don’t rely on Matip and Gomez to close huge gaps in space and never make a mess of things.

What you should do is to ask players to focus on the basics. Closing down space, working for the team, being alert, making runs for teammates, executing simple passes, treating clean sheets like wins. Same expectations and accountability to all players regardless of seniority. In a hypothetical world where Klopp gets fired mid-season, any decent manager coming in would do exactly that and most likely get an improvement - so Klopp should use the same recipe! To be fair, he did some of it by playing Bajcetic and benching Henderson and Fabinho - and it worked! - but he is still asking inferior players to play like we’re prime Liverpool 2019-2022. I feel there is a bit of pride in that stubbornness and that’s why we’re getting humbled…
 
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Because they got fucking bollocked at half time.

I also think Wolves realized once they get into a two goal lead, they can let us have the ball and conserve their energy as we are not going to do any damage with that. Worst case, even if we score a goal, all they need is couple of runs through the midfield and they have a straight shot at goal.
 
Agree with a lot of it, but that’s my point - when the team is hurting and low on confidence - you don’t turn it around by asking your players to dominate games when deep down they know they don’t have what it takes. You don’t spend your time teaching a new signing to master a tactically sophisticated false 9 role while everything around him is crashing and burning (and then shifting him back on the wing just as he seemed to start getting more comfortable). You don’t rely on Matip and Gomez to close huge gaps in space and never make a mess of things.

What you should do is to ask players to focus on the basics. Closing down space, working for the team, being alert, making runs for teammates, executing simple passes, treating clean sheets like wins. Same expectations and accountability to all players regardless of seniority. In a hypothetical world where Klopp gets fired mid-season, any decent manager coming in would do exactly that and most likely get an improvement - so Klopp should use the same recipe! To be fair, he did some of it by playing Bajcetic and benching Henderson and Fabinho - and it worked! - but he is still asking inferior players to play like we’re prime Liverpool 2019-2022. I feel there is a bit of pride in that stubbornness and that’s why we’re getting humbled…

Klopp has changed the approach and we aren't playing as a high pressing team mostly, we have moved to a mid block team. I don't know what you are talking about genuinely, after Brighton this is precisely what we've been trying to do, and even before then we weren't playing anywhere near as expansively or aggressively. The only reason we played higher this game is that we were down 2.
 
Klopp has changed the approach and we aren't playing as a high pressing team mostly, we have moved to a mid block team. I don't know what you are talking about genuinely, after Brighton this is precisely what we've been trying to do, and even before then we weren't playing anywhere near as expansively or aggressively. The only reason we played higher this game is that we were down 2.

I think we're still too open. The same squad of players could be fashioned into a pretty good counter-attacking team – we saw a bit of that in the Fall when our average possession % dropped down, as far as I remember. Not sure what's the plan now, to be honest – we seem to be kind of in-between, the players seem to come out with the attitude of trying to play on the front foot and dictate the game, but we're too cautious tactically (with full-backs staying further back) to actually make it dangerous for the opponent and still too open at the back at times. The players look confused because there doesn't seem to be a viable, realistic plan for how we can score and control the game.
 
I think we're still too open. The same squad of players could be fashioned into a pretty good counter-attacking team – we saw a bit of that in the Fall when our average possession % dropped down, as far as I remember. Not sure what's the plan now, to be honest – we seem to be kind of in-between, the players seem to come out with the attitude of trying to play on the front foot and dictate the game, but we're too cautious tactically (with full-backs staying further back) to actually make it dangerous for the opponent and still too open at the back at times. The players look confused because there doesn't seem to be a viable, realistic plan for how we can score and control the game.

We just lost 3-0 to fucking wolves, of course we are too fucking open. We play 10 at the back and we will still ship goals if we don't stop crosses and don't mark men.
 
This moment was highlighted by MOTD – Wolves are building from the back (from a goal-kick I presume), Thiago and Keita both go to sort of press, but really just stand in a line with Gakpo, not close enough to put the pressure on the Wolves player with the ball, but leaving all sorts of space behind.

Screen-Shot-2023-02-04-at-10-25-26-PM.png


A simple pass over the top finds a player in acres of space in midfield with only Bajcetic and Trent in the vicinity:

Screen-Shot-2023-02-04-at-10-25-29-PM.png


What the fuck was that "press?" Who is coaching our midfielders to move forward in sync and stand in no-man's land where they will be easily bypassed? That's not a singular occurrence, we've been seeing this all season – only now it's Bajcetic and not Fabinho trying to cover all of the midfield by himself.

Again, it comes down to coaching and tactical decisions. Like him or not, but Thiago is a player who always follows tactical instructions. After 5 years of being coached by Klopp, I assume Keita does too (if not, what the fuck is he still doing in the team?). Some have criticized Hendo for going AWOL on his defensive duties, but now he's on the bench and the other players are doing the same!
 
My English isn’t good so I’ll try to keep it short. I’ve said it time and time again and it’s bleeding obvious for anyone who watches our recent games too.

Opposition teams are attacking our fullbacks ie they playing us on the wings. And our midfield’s not providing much cover which means our hapless CBs have to provide cover to our failing FBs, leaving our centre exposed and our defense positioning all messed up.

Any team who knows how to play quick one twos to release pacy wingers into the D are exploiting us every match. We used to do this type of shit to others and now teams are playing us with our game !
 
My English isn’t good so I’ll try to keep it short. I’ve said it time and time again and it’s bleeding obvious for anyone who watches our recent games too.

Opposition teams are attacking our fullbacks ie they playing us on the wings. And our midfield’s not providing much cover which means our hapless CBs have to provide cover to our failing FBs, leaving our centre exposed and our defense positioning all messed up.

Any team who knows how to play quick one twos to release pacy wingers into the D are exploiting us every match. We used to do this type of shit to others and now teams are playing us with our game !

… but if we’re giving their backline time to either pick a pass over our midfield or into their midfield to play through ours because our forward press has gone to shit tgen we’re making it easy.

A long diagonal in behind Trent is a percentage ball that should favour us if it’s rushed and should be tidied up by a CB most of the time.

I’ve said it before - our problems start with our forward line’s inability to effectively high press.

The problem doesn’t end there - but if you don’t fix that, then it doesn’t matter who else you play in the side.

We either fix it - or change the entire strategy - maybe go for a low block and hump it long to a lonely Nunez and see if he can make anything of it - between goals from that and set pieces we’ll accumulate enough points never be in any danger.
 
A long diagonal in behind Trent is a percentage ball that should favour us if it’s rushed and should be tidied up by a CB most of the time.

Haha how many times have you seen that happen this season ?

Did you not see how Mitoma schooled Trent like he was in nursery school learning how to kick a ball for the first time ?

And CBs ? What, with CBs like Matip and JoeClown ?

And regarding your point about our forwards not pressing enough - that's also true.

The problem we're having now is reminiscent of pre-Klopp teams. Once we have possession of the ball, there are very few outlets to pass the ball and attack AS A TEAM. So every pass becomes rushed, we panic and make mistakes. When Klopp came, he changed all that and i thought that problem has been solved once and for all. Sadly, Thiago/Fab/Hendo - they're all playing like Lucas, Diao, Cheyrou these days. And Gakpo's our new Pennant/Downing hybrid.
 
Haha how many times have you seen that happen this season ?

Did you not see how Mitoma schooled Trent like he was in nursery school learning how to kick a ball for the first time ?

And CBs ? What, with CBs like Matip and JoeClown ?

And regarding your point about our forwards not pressing enough - that's also true.

The problem we're having now is reminiscent of pre-Klopp teams. Once we have possession of the ball, there are very few outlets to pass the ball and attack AS A TEAM. So every pass becomes rushed, we panic and make mistakes. When Klopp came, he changed all that and i thought that problem has been solved once and for all. Sadly, Thiago/Fab/Hendo - they're all playing like Lucas, Diao, Cheyrou these days. And Gakpo's our new Pennant/Downing hybrid.

Yes mate - CB’s like Gomez & Matip who for all their faults have been part of a solid defence for years and yes Trent who also has been part of said defence for years while being our best creative outlet.

There’s too sides to this - there’s individual errors and players losing too many duels - that’s not be issue - then there’s the team not functioning as a unit and/or the tactics leaving individuals exposed to things they can’t deal with.

You mention Mitoma & Trent - surely the best way of dealing with him is stopping the supply at source or at least reducing the quality of passes he receives and therefore the time and space he has to be dangerous.

You look at how other teams play against us - press the living fuck out of us so we either hit it long or Thiago has no time to pick a pass.

Actually maybe the problem is we spent so much times developing the team to counteract all the low blocks we were up against when we had all the ball possession that we stopped being good at pressing.
 
A big part of the issue is our inability to keep the ball in the final third. We could push Trent and Robbo right up as we’d force the opposition to retreat. Their only outlet would be a lone forward which would be eaten up by VVD. We would have triangles of passing and running beyond.

Now we get forward lose it against just 4 opposing players and then we are caught on the back foot.
 
There is so much wrong with our team. But at a baseline our work rate, strength and dynamicism off the ball is a fraction of what it was 5 years ago at every position except for Konate, possibly Robertson and Bajcetic too if we're being kind. Salah, Matip, Fabinho, Henderson, and VVD have all aged. Kostas, Thiago, Elliott, Keita, Gakpo, and Nunez are all lazier, slower, and/or weaker then who they have replaced. Trent is stronger but slower. Gomez is quick but his anticipation is miles behind who he has replaced. That's a lot of downgrades physically speaking.

One of the major changes that took place with Edwards' squad ascendency was it became more physically dominant. We had relied on smaller technical players in a lot of positions for a long time before and we seemed to take the measurable/tangible attributes into account en masse for a short time period. A team of mobile almost or 6ftrs tearing around hunting for the ball in packs. As a team that can now be physically dominated and outrun the whole system needs to change completely. We've only slightly adjusted and mostly by trying to create set patterns of attack around certain players making us more predictable and less of a threat.
 
So klopp confused Pearce with Melissa Reddy..

I mean easy mistake to make.

He's lost another life.
 
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This moment was highlighted by MOTD – Wolves are building from the back (from a goal-kick I presume), Thiago and Keita both go to sort of press, but really just stand in a line with Gakpo, not close enough to put the pressure on the Wolves player with the ball, but leaving all sorts of space behind.

Screen-Shot-2023-02-04-at-10-25-26-PM.png


A simple pass over the top finds a player in acres of space in midfield with only Bajcetic and Trent in the vicinity:

Screen-Shot-2023-02-04-at-10-25-29-PM.png


What the fuck was that "press?" Who is coaching our midfielders to move forward in sync and stand in no-man's land where they will be easily bypassed? That's not a singular occurrence, we've been seeing this all season – only now it's Bajcetic and not Fabinho trying to cover all of the midfield by himself.

Again, it comes down to coaching and tactical decisions. Like him or not, but Thiago is a player who always follows tactical instructions. After 5 years of being coached by Klopp, I assume Keita does too (if not, what the fuck is he still doing in the team?). Some have criticized Hendo for going AWOL on his defensive duties, but now he's on the bench and the other players are doing the same!

In our pomp that long pass would probably have been dealt with by our centre halves.
 
… but if we’re giving their backline time to either pick a pass over our midfield or into their midfield to play through ours because our forward press has gone to shit tgen we’re making it easy.

A long diagonal in behind Trent is a percentage ball that should favour us if it’s rushed and should be tidied up by a CB most of the time.

I’ve said it before - our problems start with our forward line’s inability to effectively high press.

The problem doesn’t end there - but if you don’t fix that, then it doesn’t matter who else you play in the side.

We either fix it - or change the entire strategy - maybe go for a low block and hump it long to a lonely Nunez and see if he can make anything of it - between goals from that and set pieces we’ll accumulate enough points never be in any danger.

Our defense doesn't look that great because the midfield isn't providing them any protection. Our midfield doesn't look great because they are getting old and the front three doesn't give the midfield any protection anymore.
 
We were looking more like our old self in the 15-20 mins in the 2nd half. We just lacked abit of quality in the final third and some confidence. If we had pulled one back it could have been a different game. A glimmer of hope, at least.

But Gomez needs to be binned permanently. I have never seen a player making so many mistakes and is still playing. His only good game this season is against City. Every other game is full of mistakes and naive defending.

I have no idea what is Klopp's beef with Phillips. He is destroying his career while indulging Gomez who must be one of the poorest defender in the league. There must be some stats on that.

Major major blindspot for Klopp
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/joe-gomez-liverpool-contract-injuries-27425283
 
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Our defense doesn't look that great because the midfield isn't providing them any protection. Our midfield doesn't look great because they are getting old and the front three doesn't give the midfield any protection anymore.

Correct - but a younger midfield is just going to look as bad if the forwards aren’t offering any protection.

The forward line is where we’ve made the most changes - our way back starts by fixing them.
 
Jürgen Klopp is still the right man for Liverpool - he remains the club's biggest asset


[article]Two passes. That was all it took to confirm that this was not going to be the day that things would change for Liverpool.

The first, from Naby Keïta, went backwards from the kick off. Nothing new there, of course. Standard practice in top-level football.

The second, from Joël Matip, went forwards. Nothing new there either. That’s the routine for most teams, and certainly for Liverpool. They spend all game hoping to control possession and secure the ball, but when they start the game with it, the first thing they do is send it long and try to pick up some scraps.

That’s the idea, anyway. Matip’s diagonal was, I presume, supposed to land somewhere in the final third, around the left corner of the Wolves penalty area. I’d imagine it was to be aimed at Darwin Núñez.

Instead, though, the ball was scuffed at waist height, like one of my five irons at Aintree driving range - I’ve started playing recently, so if I start working a few more golf analogies into my articles, please pull me up on it! - straight to Rúben Neves.

Wolves’ captain and best player, Neves, with no Liverpool man within five yards of him, was able to adjust comfortably and volley a first-time pass to Matheus Cunha in the Reds half. Liverpool soon won possession back, but within five seconds, a tone had been set, and not a good one.

Jürgen Klopp must be sick of the sight of these players at the moment. I know a lot of supporters are. They’ve given us some of the best days and nights of our lives, these lads, but that only makes what’s happening to them right now harder to fathom, and definitely harder to watch.

“Absolutely not allowed,” was how Klopp described the opening 12 minutes at Molineux, in which Liverpool proceeded to fall two goals down to a team which started the game in the relegation zone and which, even after a 3-0 win, has still scored fewer goals this season than any other Premier League team.

The start to the game, one imagines, will make up the bulk of Liverpool’s Monday analysis meeting at the AXA, and understandably so. Liverpool’s defending was, as Klopp put it, “horrible”, with Matip and Joe Gomez culpable for Wolves’ first goal and Gomez and Andy Robertson found wanting for the second. Even before and inbetween, there were chances for the home side to do further damage.

But if Klopp really wants to test his players’ pride and provoke a reaction, he should show them not the first 12 minutes of the game, but the last four, as Wolves stroked the ball around the pitch in stoppage time unopposed, to loud, ironic cheers from their supporters.

That’s where this Liverpool team is right now. ‘Olé’d’ by Wolves, just as they were by Brentford and by Brighton. Everton are next. They couldn’t, could they?

They might, on this evidence. The bottom line is that teams know if you work hard and do the basics right against Liverpool, there’s a pretty good chance you’ll win. For all of Klopp's talk of “small steps in the right direction” in recent weeks, it’s difficult to see any light at the end of the tunnel. Liverpool aren’t defending well, they aren’t attacking with conviction and the midfield is, well, the midfield. Stefan Bajcetic is a gem, but aside from that it’s a puzzle that only a few big cheques can solve.

It was a tetchy post-match press conference from Klopp, who rather unfairly chose to direct his ire at a colleague, but one with a fair few insights, considering it came so soon after the final whistle.

The team, he said, was bereft of confidence, although that shouldn’t stop them from defending sensibly and blocking the ball. The excuse of last season’s mammoth, 63-game effort, he added, had to be left behind. “How long do we want to suffer from that?” he asked, not unreasonably. “It’s February on my watch.”

The debate around his team’s struggles, he confirmed, is doing his head in as much as it is doing ours in. “I can’t hear it anymore,” Klopp said. “At the moment it’s always ‘if’, ‘if’, ‘if’...”

Most importantly, he stated, publicly, that he still has confidence - “absolutely” - in his ability to turn things around. And while he could hardly say anything else, that should offer some comfort to supporters, even those who had left well before the final whistle at Molineux, or those are starting to seriously doubt the direction the club is heading in.

Klopp is, along with the fans, Liverpool’s biggest asset, without question. It is he, and they, who have made the club what it is; attractive, respected, revered. A place excellent footballers want to play, a stadium which crackles with excitement and anticipation, a team that wins and entertains and connects with its public like few others ever could.

Those things might be broken at the moment, but with this man in charge they can be fixed, I’m convinced of that. It’ll take money, it’ll take changes and it’ll take some hard-nosed, sentiment-free decisions, maybe some more short-term pain too, but it can happen. If Arsenal can get something bubbling after where they’ve been, and if Manchester United can turn the tanker round, then so can Liverpool.

They still have, when all are fit and on song, a team that can compete with anybody. They still have time to work through this mess and find their levels again. They still have match-winners, stars, players whose quality, ego and professionalism won’t allow them to just give up and accept that 10th place is their lot. Mohamed Salah, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Virgil van Dijk messing about in the middle of the league? Come on.

But most importantly, they still have Klopp. The man who told you what he’d do and then did it. The man who made everything happen, everything possible. The man who conquered England, Europe, the whole bloody world.

The right man for Liverpool. Then, now and always. [/article]
 
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