Kenny Huang leading serious bid for LFC
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Huang a front-runner despite uncertain backing
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
Published: August 6 2010 23:48 | Last updated: August 6 2010 23:48
Chinese businessman Kenny Huang Jianhua has been seen as the front-runner to buy the Liverpool Football Club, reportedly with backing from China’s $332bn sovereign wealth fund.
But far from being a billionaire tycoon with keys to the Chinese Treasury, Mr Huang’s only formal roles are as an investor in a fledgling minor league Chinese basketball team, a Chinese basketball magazine and two sports marketing companies – one in Beijing and one in the US, neither of which has more than 15 employees.
China Investment Corp, the country’s main sovereign wealth fund, told the FT it has never heard of Mr Huang or about the bid for Liverpool, although people close to Mr Huang had earlier claimed that a “sovereign wealth fund from the Far East†was backing his bid.
At least one of the more extravagant claims made about Mr Huang – that he bid for and used to own part of the Cleveland Cavaliers NBA basketball team – is false, according to the NBA.
It has been widely reported in Chinese and western media that Mr Huang owns up to 15 per cent of the Cleveland Cavaliers and in numerous published and broadcast interviews Mr Huang has not denied this.
Through a spokesperson he told the FT on Friday that he is “no longer an owner of the Cleveland Cavaliersâ€.
“Mr Huang has never had an ownership interest in the Cleveland Cavaliers or any other NBA team nor was he ever affiliated with an owner of an interest in an NBA team,†the NBA told the Financial Times.
Mr Huang set up QSL Sports Limited last year. QSL has a small office in Beijing and employs about 15 people there. QSL employees and the company’s website claimed to have an office at a prestigious central Hong Kong location but that office does not exist and the building’s managers said they have no record of the company renting an office there.
After the FT raised questions about the office address and other assertions made by Mr Huang, QSL’s website was taken down and replaced with a sign saying “Site under maintenanceâ€.
In May this year, QSL announced that Yang Guang, a portfolio manager and research analyst at fund management company Franklin Templeton, will “become a partner†of Mr Huang to jointly promote QSL’s investment in China’s nascent minor basketball league and help develop little league baseball in China, where the sport is virtually unknown.
Mr Yang’s official Franklin Templeton biography says he has research responsibility for the European utilities and medical technology/supplies sectors.
Franklin Templeton in New York said: “Franklin Templeton has no involvement in the Liverpool FC bid and Yang Guang has also stated that he has no involvement.â€
Mr Huang says he was the first Chinese college graduate from mainland China to work at the New York Stock Exchange, where he was employed in the public relations department in 1988.
When asked what Mr Huang has been doing since then, his Hong Kong-based spokesperson said he was “in Wall Street doing private wealth management†for “some billionaires in the US.â€
Mr Huang had been associated with Rocket Capital, a fund set up by Leslie Alexander, owner of the Houston Rockets NBA basketball team.
The Rockets team said it was unable to confirm or deny Mr Huang’s involvement with the team and Mr Huang’s spokesperson in Hong Kong said she did not know whether Mr Huang was still working with Mr Alexander or Rocket Capital.
In one of his online biographies Mr Huang says he “has become one of the most accomplished business executives partnering with some of the largest state-owned enterprises in China.â€
But three high-profile successful Beijing-based investors in the China market said they had never heard of him or any investment deals he had done until the media frenzy surrounding his claims he wants to buy Liverpool FC.
Mr Huang refused to speak directly to the FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/202c5bb2-a18c-11df-9656-00144feabdc0.html
Not encouraging... I can't say how much I respect the FT in matters such as these, and it's always been obvious that Huang is an attention whore...
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
Published: August 6 2010 23:48 | Last updated: August 6 2010 23:48
Chinese businessman Kenny Huang Jianhua has been seen as the front-runner to buy the Liverpool Football Club, reportedly with backing from China’s $332bn sovereign wealth fund.
But far from being a billionaire tycoon with keys to the Chinese Treasury, Mr Huang’s only formal roles are as an investor in a fledgling minor league Chinese basketball team, a Chinese basketball magazine and two sports marketing companies – one in Beijing and one in the US, neither of which has more than 15 employees.
China Investment Corp, the country’s main sovereign wealth fund, told the FT it has never heard of Mr Huang or about the bid for Liverpool, although people close to Mr Huang had earlier claimed that a “sovereign wealth fund from the Far East†was backing his bid.
At least one of the more extravagant claims made about Mr Huang – that he bid for and used to own part of the Cleveland Cavaliers NBA basketball team – is false, according to the NBA.
It has been widely reported in Chinese and western media that Mr Huang owns up to 15 per cent of the Cleveland Cavaliers and in numerous published and broadcast interviews Mr Huang has not denied this.
Through a spokesperson he told the FT on Friday that he is “no longer an owner of the Cleveland Cavaliersâ€.
“Mr Huang has never had an ownership interest in the Cleveland Cavaliers or any other NBA team nor was he ever affiliated with an owner of an interest in an NBA team,†the NBA told the Financial Times.
Mr Huang set up QSL Sports Limited last year. QSL has a small office in Beijing and employs about 15 people there. QSL employees and the company’s website claimed to have an office at a prestigious central Hong Kong location but that office does not exist and the building’s managers said they have no record of the company renting an office there.
After the FT raised questions about the office address and other assertions made by Mr Huang, QSL’s website was taken down and replaced with a sign saying “Site under maintenanceâ€.
In May this year, QSL announced that Yang Guang, a portfolio manager and research analyst at fund management company Franklin Templeton, will “become a partner†of Mr Huang to jointly promote QSL’s investment in China’s nascent minor basketball league and help develop little league baseball in China, where the sport is virtually unknown.
Mr Yang’s official Franklin Templeton biography says he has research responsibility for the European utilities and medical technology/supplies sectors.
Franklin Templeton in New York said: “Franklin Templeton has no involvement in the Liverpool FC bid and Yang Guang has also stated that he has no involvement.â€
Mr Huang says he was the first Chinese college graduate from mainland China to work at the New York Stock Exchange, where he was employed in the public relations department in 1988.
When asked what Mr Huang has been doing since then, his Hong Kong-based spokesperson said he was “in Wall Street doing private wealth management†for “some billionaires in the US.â€
Mr Huang had been associated with Rocket Capital, a fund set up by Leslie Alexander, owner of the Houston Rockets NBA basketball team.
The Rockets team said it was unable to confirm or deny Mr Huang’s involvement with the team and Mr Huang’s spokesperson in Hong Kong said she did not know whether Mr Huang was still working with Mr Alexander or Rocket Capital.
In one of his online biographies Mr Huang says he “has become one of the most accomplished business executives partnering with some of the largest state-owned enterprises in China.â€
But three high-profile successful Beijing-based investors in the China market said they had never heard of him or any investment deals he had done until the media frenzy surrounding his claims he wants to buy Liverpool FC.
Mr Huang refused to speak directly to the FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/202c5bb2-a18c-11df-9656-00144feabdc0.html
Not encouraging... I can't say how much I respect the FT in matters such as these, and it's always been obvious that Huang is an attention whore...
why can't you say how much you respect the FT 'in matters such as these'? it's not like anyone's going to give a toss if you're wrong.
i'd say it's pretty damn respectable in all matters tbh.
i'd say it's pretty damn respectable in all matters tbh.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41235.msg1149873#msg1149873 date=1281138458]
why can't you say how much you respect the FT 'in matters such as these'? it's not like anyone's going to give a toss if you're wrong.
i'd say it's pretty damn respectable in all matters tbh.
[/quote]
I meant I respect it a lot. I enjoy reading it every day.
It's sitting in front of me right now, on my desk, in burbank, where I've been for fucking hours, and I have a 2 hour commute waiting for me, so give me a little leeway.
On it being respectable in all matters - it's weekend paper gets worse and worse, at least the international edition, and it's art coverage sucks too. I mean, what do you expect, that's not what it's for, but still.
Maybe the special yachting insert every few months isn't good too, I wouldn't know.
why can't you say how much you respect the FT 'in matters such as these'? it's not like anyone's going to give a toss if you're wrong.
i'd say it's pretty damn respectable in all matters tbh.
[/quote]
I meant I respect it a lot. I enjoy reading it every day.
It's sitting in front of me right now, on my desk, in burbank, where I've been for fucking hours, and I have a 2 hour commute waiting for me, so give me a little leeway.
On it being respectable in all matters - it's weekend paper gets worse and worse, at least the international edition, and it's art coverage sucks too. I mean, what do you expect, that's not what it's for, but still.
Maybe the special yachting insert every few months isn't good too, I wouldn't know.
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41235.msg1149875#msg1149875 date=1281138724]
*tears down Huang's image & puts on sack cloth and ashes*
[/quote]
That's a good look for you. Come here sexy.
*tears down Huang's image & puts on sack cloth and ashes*
[/quote]
That's a good look for you. Come here sexy.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41235.msg1149877#msg1149877 date=1281139668]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41235.msg1149875#msg1149875 date=1281138724]
*tears down Huang's image & puts on sack cloth and ashes*
[/quote]
That's a good look for you. Come here sexy.
[/quote]
*wails*
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41235.msg1149875#msg1149875 date=1281138724]
*tears down Huang's image & puts on sack cloth and ashes*
[/quote]
That's a good look for you. Come here sexy.
[/quote]
*wails*
oh right-ho. you're not planning on using the FT to help you through a 2 hour commute are you? i'd advise something a little less unenjoyable myself. ever heard of maeve binchy?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149688#msg1149688 date=1281113955]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=41235.msg1149281#msg1149281 date=1281077928]
From Rawk...
In Sohu today : http://sports.sohu.com/20100806/n274020065.shtml
Key points:
- Huang has made a formal bid at £450m.
- The bid made up of two parts: 300m for 100% of the shares; injection of 150m with 100m for the stadium and 50m for transfer.
Sohu said it comes from its own special correspondent in England and internal sources of the Club! Please be careful on anything news piece from China although Sohu is the better one.
***
?
[/quote]
With the cost of the stadium somewhere around the 350m mark we can still expect to be (at least) 250m in debt if the deal goes through as above.
[/quote]
But we're £250m in debt now with no stadium. Or am I reading you wrong?
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=41235.msg1149281#msg1149281 date=1281077928]
From Rawk...
In Sohu today : http://sports.sohu.com/20100806/n274020065.shtml
Key points:
- Huang has made a formal bid at £450m.
- The bid made up of two parts: 300m for 100% of the shares; injection of 150m with 100m for the stadium and 50m for transfer.
Sohu said it comes from its own special correspondent in England and internal sources of the Club! Please be careful on anything news piece from China although Sohu is the better one.
***
?
[/quote]
With the cost of the stadium somewhere around the 350m mark we can still expect to be (at least) 250m in debt if the deal goes through as above.
[/quote]
But we're £250m in debt now with no stadium. Or am I reading you wrong?
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149889#msg1149889 date=1281145763]
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
Chinese government can kiss my balls. Australian government want to build a porn firewall but where do you draw the line? Production values?
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41235.msg1149892#msg1149892 date=1281147142]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149889#msg1149889 date=1281145763]
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
[/quote]
It's very strange - usually I can't get through without the aid of my VPN, but then inexplicably sometimes I can not only load 6CM but actually post too. Inconsistent.
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149889#msg1149889 date=1281145763]
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
[/quote]
It's very strange - usually I can't get through without the aid of my VPN, but then inexplicably sometimes I can not only load 6CM but actually post too. Inconsistent.
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149896#msg1149896 date=1281147846]
Chinese government can kiss my balls. Australian government want to build a porn firewall but where do you draw the line? Production values?
[/quote]
That's not just Australia ... isn't there a worldwide initiative to force all porn to use a special designation, xxx.porn for example, to help with firewalling ?
Chinese government can kiss my balls. Australian government want to build a porn firewall but where do you draw the line? Production values?
[/quote]
That's not just Australia ... isn't there a worldwide initiative to force all porn to use a special designation, xxx.porn for example, to help with firewalling ?
Well I'm all for freedom but this is probably a good thing. Kids don't need to see this stuff. When I was a boy you had to rely on an older brothers hand me down Porno mag just to see a naked lady! Then later on you would wait 10 minutes to download a single picture off the Internet.
These days there is all kinds of stuff at the touch of a button I think it could warp young minds! I'm glad I couldn't see German people shitting on each other when I was growing up. Dirty bastards.
These days there is all kinds of stuff at the touch of a button I think it could warp young minds! I'm glad I couldn't see German people shitting on each other when I was growing up. Dirty bastards.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41235.msg1149902#msg1149902 date=1281149639]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41235.msg1149892#msg1149892 date=1281147142]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149889#msg1149889 date=1281145763]
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
[/quote]
It's very strange - usually I can't get through without the aid of my VPN, but then inexplicably sometimes I can not only load 6CM but actually post too. Inconsistent.
[/quote]
Some hotels/businesses use Pacnet through HK for their internet. You could get it for your business too, no restriction last I used it.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41235.msg1149892#msg1149892 date=1281147142]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41235.msg1149889#msg1149889 date=1281145763]
I wonder if SCM gets through the Great FireWall of China? Not many websites can be read in China.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't.
[/quote]
It's very strange - usually I can't get through without the aid of my VPN, but then inexplicably sometimes I can not only load 6CM but actually post too. Inconsistent.
[/quote]
Some hotels/businesses use Pacnet through HK for their internet. You could get it for your business too, no restriction last I used it.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149919#msg1149919 date=1281167156]
It seems the more we learn about these bids, the less we know.
[/quote]
The more things bounce around, the more I begin to think this won't be wrapped up before the transfer window ends, which is no good, because we seem destined to have 0 or worse net spend, and our team isn't close to good enough.
It seems the more we learn about these bids, the less we know.
[/quote]
The more things bounce around, the more I begin to think this won't be wrapped up before the transfer window ends, which is no good, because we seem destined to have 0 or worse net spend, and our team isn't close to good enough.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41235.msg1149923#msg1149923 date=1281168110]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149919#msg1149919 date=1281167156]
It seems the more we learn about these bids, the less we know.
[/quote]
The more things bounce around, the more I begin to think this won't be wrapped up before the transfer window ends, which is no good, because we seem destined to have 0 or worse net spend, and our team isn't close to good enough.
[/quote]
Maybe , there have been various mentions of anywhere between 4 and 6 bids so we might get lucky. And you can already see that if Huang isn't successful he'll be referred to for years after as what should have been in the way DIC were.
He appears to be a lot like the various Pompey bidders though.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149919#msg1149919 date=1281167156]
It seems the more we learn about these bids, the less we know.
[/quote]
The more things bounce around, the more I begin to think this won't be wrapped up before the transfer window ends, which is no good, because we seem destined to have 0 or worse net spend, and our team isn't close to good enough.
[/quote]
Maybe , there have been various mentions of anywhere between 4 and 6 bids so we might get lucky. And you can already see that if Huang isn't successful he'll be referred to for years after as what should have been in the way DIC were.
He appears to be a lot like the various Pompey bidders though.
so it seems huang isn't backed by the CIC but intends to remove the debt, start the stadium and give proper funds for transfers...
and the problem with this is?
and the problem with this is?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41235.msg1149932#msg1149932 date=1281169033]
so it seems huang isn't backed by the CIC but intends to remove the debt, start the stadium and give proper funds for transfers...
and the problem with this is?
[/quote]
Every single bid will "intend" to do that. Huang has been willing to lap up attention, even when much of it was based on falsehoods, he has put a proposal in which undervalues the club, while using crude PR to make it seem like he's doing it for some noble purpose, and we have no firm assurance of who is backing him.
There might be no problem with the bid, but I don't like how he's going about it.
so it seems huang isn't backed by the CIC but intends to remove the debt, start the stadium and give proper funds for transfers...
and the problem with this is?
[/quote]
Every single bid will "intend" to do that. Huang has been willing to lap up attention, even when much of it was based on falsehoods, he has put a proposal in which undervalues the club, while using crude PR to make it seem like he's doing it for some noble purpose, and we have no firm assurance of who is backing him.
There might be no problem with the bid, but I don't like how he's going about it.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149937#msg1149937 date=1281169318]
Who is backing him Neil ?
[/quote]
to be honest the thing I'm most concerned about is the potential buyer putting the cost of the buyout on the club again, everything else I think the club can do on its own, transfer fees and the stadium (if the new owner has enough assets to secure the stadium loan).
Who is backing him Neil ?
[/quote]
to be honest the thing I'm most concerned about is the potential buyer putting the cost of the buyout on the club again, everything else I think the club can do on its own, transfer fees and the stadium (if the new owner has enough assets to secure the stadium loan).
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
So what was the deal with CIC freeing up assets to exactly the figure needed to pay off Liverpool's debt? Are we concluding that was simple coincidence, or that it wasn't true in the first place?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149945#msg1149945 date=1281170728]
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
obviously I care if the new owner has finances or not but the new owner shouldn't be automatically discounted because he isn't backed by the vast wealth of CIC.
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
obviously I care if the new owner has finances or not but the new owner shouldn't be automatically discounted because he isn't backed by the vast wealth of CIC.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149945#msg1149945 date=1281170728]
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
Come on, Ross...the size of the finances backing up the potential new owners will always be crucial, even if divideds are payable.
One big reason we're in such a mess now is because the Yanks didnt have a pot to piss in and were thus so badly hit when their mega-leveraged asses fell out together with the market.
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
Come on, Ross...the size of the finances backing up the potential new owners will always be crucial, even if divideds are payable.
One big reason we're in such a mess now is because the Yanks didnt have a pot to piss in and were thus so badly hit when their mega-leveraged asses fell out together with the market.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41235.msg1149953#msg1149953 date=1281171571]
So what was the deal with CIC freeing up assets to exactly the figure needed to pay off Liverpool's debt? Are we concluding that was simple coincidence, or that it wasn't true in the first place?
[/quote]
1. Sovereign funds don't need to and don't disclose their books.
2. It is not uncommon for them to divest nearly 500 million$ from one asset and invest in another in any given month.
I really don't like this Huang deal. It comes with the same kind of promise that H&G had, and his main source of funds seems to be from a hedge fund. Hedge Funds take higher risks and expect higher return. My fear is that we will well and truly go under, if we let this muppet take over.
So what was the deal with CIC freeing up assets to exactly the figure needed to pay off Liverpool's debt? Are we concluding that was simple coincidence, or that it wasn't true in the first place?
[/quote]
1. Sovereign funds don't need to and don't disclose their books.
2. It is not uncommon for them to divest nearly 500 million$ from one asset and invest in another in any given month.
I really don't like this Huang deal. It comes with the same kind of promise that H&G had, and his main source of funds seems to be from a hedge fund. Hedge Funds take higher risks and expect higher return. My fear is that we will well and truly go under, if we let this muppet take over.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41235.msg1149984#msg1149984 date=1281173089]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149945#msg1149945 date=1281170728]
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
obviously I care if the new owner has finances or not but the new owner shouldn't be automatically discounted because he isn't backed by the vast wealth of CIC.
[/quote]
Straw man argument.
If you want to see why Huang is being discounted, read Farkmasters post above.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41235.msg1149945#msg1149945 date=1281170728]
So you don't care who is backing him or their previous reputation ?
You care about something which is largely irrelevant, since if the club is not paying the interest on the loans to finance the takeover it'll be paying out dividends to those who put the money up.
[/quote]
obviously I care if the new owner has finances or not but the new owner shouldn't be automatically discounted because he isn't backed by the vast wealth of CIC.
[/quote]
Straw man argument.
If you want to see why Huang is being discounted, read Farkmasters post above.
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