Kenny Huang leading serious bid for LFC
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[quote author=Asim link=topic=41235.msg1148408#msg1148408 date=1280964173]
Who is this Harris bloke? and who is he representing?
So we have 3 frontmen with no money themselves but each have the backing of amazingly wealthy people....appaz.
Oh I'm bored of you also H
[/quote]
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
Who is this Harris bloke? and who is he representing?
So we have 3 frontmen with no money themselves but each have the backing of amazingly wealthy people....appaz.
Oh I'm bored of you also H
[/quote]
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
Hopefully they'll give us their entire budget for the next century.
The guardian is reporting the CIC have raised the cash ahead of a purchase, which would mean talks are significantly more serious than just a proposal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/05/china-liverpool-ownership-fund
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/05/china-liverpool-ownership-fund
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=41235.msg1148423#msg1148423 date=1280965287]
Over £200bn in assets.
[/quote]
That's not that relevant.
We would be some small part of their investment portfolio. Granted we wouldn't be that traditional an investment, as they may well look to use us to provide value within their sometimes closed market, especially for advertisement, but they aren't going to treat us like Abromovich does Chelsea, no matter how much they have.
Over £200bn in assets.
[/quote]
That's not that relevant.
We would be some small part of their investment portfolio. Granted we wouldn't be that traditional an investment, as they may well look to use us to provide value within their sometimes closed market, especially for advertisement, but they aren't going to treat us like Abromovich does Chelsea, no matter how much they have.
If CIC do buy us, we'd probably see a significant investment in the club up front, debt taken onto the club for the purposes of a stadium, at a reasonable rate and term, given far lower risk, and then fairly modest investments in players over the course of the stadium build until increased revenue from commercial arrangements in China, and increased gate receipts came in.
And IF that happened, it'd be fucking fantastic, especially given where we've been for the last couple years.
And IF that happened, it'd be fucking fantastic, especially given where we've been for the last couple years.
True, but i can't let myself get excited.
At the moment, it's at a such and such is buying a house on Merseyside level.
At the moment, it's at a such and such is buying a house on Merseyside level.
They only want us cos we play in red.
Guardian reporting they have sold shares in Morgan Stanley which matches the RBS loan to the nearest decimal place. Coincedence?
Guardian reporting they have sold shares in Morgan Stanley which matches the RBS loan to the nearest decimal place. Coincedence?
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=41235.msg1148431#msg1148431 date=1280966434]
True, but i can't let myself get excited.
At the moment, it's at a such and such is buying a house on Merseyside level.
[/quote]
I think it's considerably more advanced than that.
I don't think there are any bids anywhere near the weight of CIC.
The thing is, they are really trying to play a game of brinksmanship by offering ONLY the debt of the club. That undervalues the club significantly, in my opinion, while also encouraging someone to take the Moores route and pick another investor who offers more money now, and also is perhaps less sensibly leveraged.
I can't imagine CIC will end up getting the club for that. If they do, what an epic fail it has been for H&G, who have turned down profit on several occasions.
True, but i can't let myself get excited.
At the moment, it's at a such and such is buying a house on Merseyside level.
[/quote]
I think it's considerably more advanced than that.
I don't think there are any bids anywhere near the weight of CIC.
The thing is, they are really trying to play a game of brinksmanship by offering ONLY the debt of the club. That undervalues the club significantly, in my opinion, while also encouraging someone to take the Moores route and pick another investor who offers more money now, and also is perhaps less sensibly leveraged.
I can't imagine CIC will end up getting the club for that. If they do, what an epic fail it has been for H&G, who have turned down profit on several occasions.
If it is in such an advanced stage, realistically any takeover could be done within August then?
Seems silly to host the bidding now if we don't get a sniff of the wodge til January.
Seems silly to host the bidding now if we don't get a sniff of the wodge til January.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=41235.msg1148438#msg1148438 date=1280967291]
If it is in such an advanced stage, realistically any takeover could be done within August then?
Seems silly to host the bidding now if we don't get a sniff of the wodge til January.
[/quote]
Both the buyer and the seller want a deal done before the summer transfer season is over, so I don't see why that can't happen.
If it is in such an advanced stage, realistically any takeover could be done within August then?
Seems silly to host the bidding now if we don't get a sniff of the wodge til January.
[/quote]
Both the buyer and the seller want a deal done before the summer transfer season is over, so I don't see why that can't happen.
Seriously if CIC is involved we are talking about trillions!
China is the biggest holder of US Bonds and US Dollars. And I think they are keen to divest from the US currency reserves and cant be seen selling the US$. What better way to divest than to invest into a lost making club like LFC? It is like money laundering indirectly.
*new stadium dreaming coming into fruition*
China is the biggest holder of US Bonds and US Dollars. And I think they are keen to divest from the US currency reserves and cant be seen selling the US$. What better way to divest than to invest into a lost making club like LFC? It is like money laundering indirectly.
*new stadium dreaming coming into fruition*
S
Squiggles
Guest
How much CIC invest into the first team straight-away almost comes secondary to me. If they can effectively open up the Chinese markets for us we'll be a lot better off anyway, which is very important with the new rules coming in.
Fucking hell
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0805/1224276242947.html
CIC's cash-raising exercise confirms Huang's interest
In this section »
Pleased as punch worthwhile trip for Ferguson3 new FAI sponsorFiery Celtic exit despite victoryMATT SCOTT and ANDY HUNTER
EUROPA LEAGUE/Liverpool (2) v FK Rabotnicki (0): THE CHINESE fund represented by Kenny Huang has spent the past fortnight raising precisely the amount of cash required to finance a bid for Liverpool. Sources have confirmed that the China Investment Corporation, the sovereign-wealth fund to the world’s most populous nation, is the organisation being fronted by Huang, who yesterday admitted interest in bidding for Liverpool.
In a series of trades since July 19th, CIC has sold $558 million of shares in Morgan Stanley, equating to £351.4 million. That sum is equivalent to Liverpool’s debt to the nearest decimal place, and is exactly the number insiders say has been quoted to interested parties as the club’s sale price.
China Daily, the English-language arm of the Chinese state media, reported yesterday: “China Investment Corp, the Chinese sovereign wealth fund that bought a 9.9 per cent stake in Morgan Stanley in 2007, sold $90.5 million of shares in the investment bank on July 30th, bringing the total amount divested in the last two weeks to about $558 million.â€
Although sovereign-wealth funds have enormous values of assets under management, cash is generally tied up in equity and bond markets. This requires liquidation by share sales before major new investments can be made. It is therefore hugely significant that the £351.4 million number is also equivalent to Liverpool’s debt, suggesting that CIC is shifting its assets ahead of an offer for the five-times European Cup winners.
It also indicates that despite the ambitions of the Anfield club’s chairman, Martin Broughton, to generate a return for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, China is refusing to reward them for their three-and-a half-year ownership of the club. The Americans’ capacity to dictate terms is further reduced by the fact that there are few other credible bidders preparing to compete with Huang and CIC.
Huang confirmed for the first time yesterday that he had contacted Liverpool’s brokers in the sale – who together are Broughton and Barclays’s investment-banking division, Barcap – to “register interestâ€. He did state that he “has made no formal bidâ€, however CIC’s cash-raising exercise demonstrates it is in a position to make an approach at any time.
In that event the red half of Merseyside will be concerned about the impact of direct investment from the Chinese government.
Manager Roy Hodgson yesterday confirmed his interest in a €7 million move for the Juventus midfielder Christian Poulsen ahead of tonight’s second leg of Uefa’s Europa League. Hodgson also welcomed Fernando Torres’ public commitment to the club following a summer of uncertainty.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0805/1224276242947.html
CIC's cash-raising exercise confirms Huang's interest
In this section »
Pleased as punch worthwhile trip for Ferguson3 new FAI sponsorFiery Celtic exit despite victoryMATT SCOTT and ANDY HUNTER
EUROPA LEAGUE/Liverpool (2) v FK Rabotnicki (0): THE CHINESE fund represented by Kenny Huang has spent the past fortnight raising precisely the amount of cash required to finance a bid for Liverpool. Sources have confirmed that the China Investment Corporation, the sovereign-wealth fund to the world’s most populous nation, is the organisation being fronted by Huang, who yesterday admitted interest in bidding for Liverpool.
In a series of trades since July 19th, CIC has sold $558 million of shares in Morgan Stanley, equating to £351.4 million. That sum is equivalent to Liverpool’s debt to the nearest decimal place, and is exactly the number insiders say has been quoted to interested parties as the club’s sale price.
China Daily, the English-language arm of the Chinese state media, reported yesterday: “China Investment Corp, the Chinese sovereign wealth fund that bought a 9.9 per cent stake in Morgan Stanley in 2007, sold $90.5 million of shares in the investment bank on July 30th, bringing the total amount divested in the last two weeks to about $558 million.â€
Although sovereign-wealth funds have enormous values of assets under management, cash is generally tied up in equity and bond markets. This requires liquidation by share sales before major new investments can be made. It is therefore hugely significant that the £351.4 million number is also equivalent to Liverpool’s debt, suggesting that CIC is shifting its assets ahead of an offer for the five-times European Cup winners.
It also indicates that despite the ambitions of the Anfield club’s chairman, Martin Broughton, to generate a return for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, China is refusing to reward them for their three-and-a half-year ownership of the club. The Americans’ capacity to dictate terms is further reduced by the fact that there are few other credible bidders preparing to compete with Huang and CIC.
Huang confirmed for the first time yesterday that he had contacted Liverpool’s brokers in the sale – who together are Broughton and Barclays’s investment-banking division, Barcap – to “register interestâ€. He did state that he “has made no formal bidâ€, however CIC’s cash-raising exercise demonstrates it is in a position to make an approach at any time.
In that event the red half of Merseyside will be concerned about the impact of direct investment from the Chinese government.
Manager Roy Hodgson yesterday confirmed his interest in a €7 million move for the Juventus midfielder Christian Poulsen ahead of tonight’s second leg of Uefa’s Europa League. Hodgson also welcomed Fernando Torres’ public commitment to the club following a summer of uncertainty.
Ok, I have now officially lost all sense of proportion.
Times article as mentioned earlier
The Chinese Government is the mystery backer behind a bid for Liverpool Football Club, The Times can reveal. China’s overseas investment arm China Investment Corporation (CIC), which already owns a stake in Canary Wharf, is funding the bid fronted by the sports tycoon Kenny Huang for one of Britain’s biggest sporting names. The debt-laden club is expected to change hands this month and last night the Chinese appeared to be in pole position to win a three-way takeover battle. The other bidders are a wealthy Kuwaiti family and an American private equity group. Liverpool’s lender, the Royal Bank of Scotland, forced the club’s unpopular American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to put it up for sale in April. A number of potential foreign buyers have been circling, but until now the role of the Communist Government was unknown. The acquisition would be just a tiny piece of China’s vast global investment plan.
The Chinese Government is the mystery backer behind a bid for Liverpool Football Club, The Times can reveal. China’s overseas investment arm China Investment Corporation (CIC), which already owns a stake in Canary Wharf, is funding the bid fronted by the sports tycoon Kenny Huang for one of Britain’s biggest sporting names. The debt-laden club is expected to change hands this month and last night the Chinese appeared to be in pole position to win a three-way takeover battle. The other bidders are a wealthy Kuwaiti family and an American private equity group. Liverpool’s lender, the Royal Bank of Scotland, forced the club’s unpopular American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to put it up for sale in April. A number of potential foreign buyers have been circling, but until now the role of the Communist Government was unknown. The acquisition would be just a tiny piece of China’s vast global investment plan.
Financial muscle makes Chinese bid favourite with Liverpool board
Hicks and Gillett are failing to persuade Broughton to pick Syrian offer as details of Huang's backing emerge
By Ian Herbert/The Independent
Thursday, 5 August 2010
Liverpool's American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett appeared to be losing their fight to walk away from the club with a profit last night as Gillett's preferred Syrian buy-out bid was widely dismissed as lacking credibility and the rival Chinese move for the club was revealed to be backed by the state-owned Chinese Investment Corporation (CIC) which has $332bn (£209bn) of assets under management.
In a day of dramatic scrambling for the ownership of Liverpool, which coincided with manager Roy Hodgson confirming he is ready to make an £8m bid to bring Juventus' defensive midfielder Christian Poulsen to Anfield as a likely replacement for Javier Mascherano, representatives of Yahya Kirdi, a former Syria international now fronting one bid, insisted that a price has been agreed and a formal purchase agreement "is in the final stage of negotiation".
But the Kirdi camp could not explain to The Independent last night where their money comes from, and this newspaper also understands that CIC is behind the rival Chinese move for the club, led by businessman Kenny Huang, which appears to remove one of the key uncertainties. None of the prospective owners have presented proof of their claimed backing, but provision of such details is due to begin next week, at which point the CIC involvement may be crucial.
CIC, formed in 2007 as a way of investing Chinese currency reserves, ploughed €800m (£665m) into one of the funds operated by the Apax Partners private equity company earlier this year, though a move for Liverpool would be something completely different to its previous activities.
Though questions remain about Huang – claims that he bid for a stake in the Cleveland Cavaliers basketball team in the United States have been denied by the National Basketball Association – the precise source of the sovereign wealth which his representatives assert is behind him has not been divulged until now.
Gillett is desperate to fend off Huang's bid as the money would be used to buy the club's £237m debt from the banks and to invest in the club. None of the funds would go to Gillett or his co-owner Hicks, leaving them with nothing from their initial personal investment of £130m. The suspicion remains that Gillett is touting Kirdi as a stalling device to prevent a Chinese takeover at the end of the month.
Liverpool's non-executive chairman, Martin Broughton, of Barclays Capital (BarCap), was recruited by Hicks and Gillett to find a buyer for the club but is aware that if he arranges a sale to buyers who make a mess of the club's future his reputation will be damaged. Broughton has suggested that there are several bids to weigh up before preferred bidder status is granted, preferably before the transfer window closes, though as of last night the Huang bid and that of the New York based Rhône Group – who have re-entered the picture, four months after their £100m bid for a share of the club proved fruitless – were the only the main contenders.
Despite reports to the contrary, a source close to the process said a bid from the Kuwaiti Al-Kharafi family looks unlikely to succeed despite them having re-entered the picture recently.
Having made his part in the scramble for the club clear – perhaps to make sure that Hicks and Gillett can not manoeuvre him out of the picture behind the scenes as they did Rhône Group back in March – Huang has decided, or been asked, to move back into the shadows as his offer to buy out the club's £237m debt from the Royal Bank of Scotland is now considered. To that end, Huang has clarified that his negotiation is ongoing and stipulated that only his PR agents, the Hong Kong office of Hill and Knowlton, are authorised to speak for him. But the public job of pressing Liverpool to accept his bid by his deadline of tomorrow week, apparently in time for Hodgson to get his hands on Chinese funds to spend on transfers, has been well and truly done.
Though Broughton and BarCap have given Gillett clearance to pursue discussions with Kirdi, claims from the Syrian's representatives yesterday that an agreement on purchase price has been reached, which would pay off the club's debt and build the new stadium critical to their financial future, were met with bemusement by those close to the investment process.
Two sources in the financial community have suggested that the size of Kirdi's offer far outweighs Haung's, though with the source of his funds so unclear the fear is that he, like Gillett and Hicks, may be planning to borrow for leveraged buy-out which would leave the club's future as uncertain as ever.
Of the uncertain financial future, Hodgson would say only that it is better that the Americans be gone soon. "I don't want to go down the ownership route because I don't know enough about it," he said. "Unfortunately the owners we have are very unpopular with the fans. They know it. That is why they are prepared to sell the club."
The Chinese investment fund behind Huang's bid
* Established in Beijing in September 2007, the China Investment Corporation (CIC) is a $300bn (£190bn) sovereign wealth fund.
* Modelled on a similar fund in Singapore, It was originally established to utilise China's foreign exchange reserves for the benefit of the state and to mitigate risks in the country's huge foreign exchange reserves.
* The fund comprises of two halves: an operation which makes global investments, and China Huijin Investment Ltd, which invests in domestic state-owned financial institutions on the government's behalf. Reserves are mainly held in low-risk, low-yielding instruments such as US Treasury bonds, but the global recession has led CIC to attempt to diversify to improve returns.
* CIC recorded an 11.7 per cent return on their £37bn overseas investments last year, reversing a decline from the previous 12 months when investments fell 2.1 per cent as an indirect result of the global financial situation. Net profit totalled $41.66bn (£26.2bn) last year, almost doubling the $23.1bn (£14.6bn) from 2008. Nearly 44 per cent of the fund's equity investments were in North America, with 28.4 per cent in the Asia-Pacific region and 20.5 per cent in Europe.
* At the end of last year, the fund held shares in dozens of US-listed companies, including Coca-Cola, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and private equity giant Blackstone, while also having equity holdings in US-listed firms included shares in Motorola among others.
Hicks and Gillett are failing to persuade Broughton to pick Syrian offer as details of Huang's backing emerge
By Ian Herbert/The Independent
Thursday, 5 August 2010
Liverpool's American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett appeared to be losing their fight to walk away from the club with a profit last night as Gillett's preferred Syrian buy-out bid was widely dismissed as lacking credibility and the rival Chinese move for the club was revealed to be backed by the state-owned Chinese Investment Corporation (CIC) which has $332bn (£209bn) of assets under management.
In a day of dramatic scrambling for the ownership of Liverpool, which coincided with manager Roy Hodgson confirming he is ready to make an £8m bid to bring Juventus' defensive midfielder Christian Poulsen to Anfield as a likely replacement for Javier Mascherano, representatives of Yahya Kirdi, a former Syria international now fronting one bid, insisted that a price has been agreed and a formal purchase agreement "is in the final stage of negotiation".
But the Kirdi camp could not explain to The Independent last night where their money comes from, and this newspaper also understands that CIC is behind the rival Chinese move for the club, led by businessman Kenny Huang, which appears to remove one of the key uncertainties. None of the prospective owners have presented proof of their claimed backing, but provision of such details is due to begin next week, at which point the CIC involvement may be crucial.
CIC, formed in 2007 as a way of investing Chinese currency reserves, ploughed €800m (£665m) into one of the funds operated by the Apax Partners private equity company earlier this year, though a move for Liverpool would be something completely different to its previous activities.
Though questions remain about Huang – claims that he bid for a stake in the Cleveland Cavaliers basketball team in the United States have been denied by the National Basketball Association – the precise source of the sovereign wealth which his representatives assert is behind him has not been divulged until now.
Gillett is desperate to fend off Huang's bid as the money would be used to buy the club's £237m debt from the banks and to invest in the club. None of the funds would go to Gillett or his co-owner Hicks, leaving them with nothing from their initial personal investment of £130m. The suspicion remains that Gillett is touting Kirdi as a stalling device to prevent a Chinese takeover at the end of the month.
Liverpool's non-executive chairman, Martin Broughton, of Barclays Capital (BarCap), was recruited by Hicks and Gillett to find a buyer for the club but is aware that if he arranges a sale to buyers who make a mess of the club's future his reputation will be damaged. Broughton has suggested that there are several bids to weigh up before preferred bidder status is granted, preferably before the transfer window closes, though as of last night the Huang bid and that of the New York based Rhône Group – who have re-entered the picture, four months after their £100m bid for a share of the club proved fruitless – were the only the main contenders.
Despite reports to the contrary, a source close to the process said a bid from the Kuwaiti Al-Kharafi family looks unlikely to succeed despite them having re-entered the picture recently.
Having made his part in the scramble for the club clear – perhaps to make sure that Hicks and Gillett can not manoeuvre him out of the picture behind the scenes as they did Rhône Group back in March – Huang has decided, or been asked, to move back into the shadows as his offer to buy out the club's £237m debt from the Royal Bank of Scotland is now considered. To that end, Huang has clarified that his negotiation is ongoing and stipulated that only his PR agents, the Hong Kong office of Hill and Knowlton, are authorised to speak for him. But the public job of pressing Liverpool to accept his bid by his deadline of tomorrow week, apparently in time for Hodgson to get his hands on Chinese funds to spend on transfers, has been well and truly done.
Though Broughton and BarCap have given Gillett clearance to pursue discussions with Kirdi, claims from the Syrian's representatives yesterday that an agreement on purchase price has been reached, which would pay off the club's debt and build the new stadium critical to their financial future, were met with bemusement by those close to the investment process.
Two sources in the financial community have suggested that the size of Kirdi's offer far outweighs Haung's, though with the source of his funds so unclear the fear is that he, like Gillett and Hicks, may be planning to borrow for leveraged buy-out which would leave the club's future as uncertain as ever.
Of the uncertain financial future, Hodgson would say only that it is better that the Americans be gone soon. "I don't want to go down the ownership route because I don't know enough about it," he said. "Unfortunately the owners we have are very unpopular with the fans. They know it. That is why they are prepared to sell the club."
The Chinese investment fund behind Huang's bid
* Established in Beijing in September 2007, the China Investment Corporation (CIC) is a $300bn (£190bn) sovereign wealth fund.
* Modelled on a similar fund in Singapore, It was originally established to utilise China's foreign exchange reserves for the benefit of the state and to mitigate risks in the country's huge foreign exchange reserves.
* The fund comprises of two halves: an operation which makes global investments, and China Huijin Investment Ltd, which invests in domestic state-owned financial institutions on the government's behalf. Reserves are mainly held in low-risk, low-yielding instruments such as US Treasury bonds, but the global recession has led CIC to attempt to diversify to improve returns.
* CIC recorded an 11.7 per cent return on their £37bn overseas investments last year, reversing a decline from the previous 12 months when investments fell 2.1 per cent as an indirect result of the global financial situation. Net profit totalled $41.66bn (£26.2bn) last year, almost doubling the $23.1bn (£14.6bn) from 2008. Nearly 44 per cent of the fund's equity investments were in North America, with 28.4 per cent in the Asia-Pacific region and 20.5 per cent in Europe.
* At the end of last year, the fund held shares in dozens of US-listed companies, including Coca-Cola, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and private equity giant Blackstone, while also having equity holdings in US-listed firms included shares in Motorola among others.
I think they like all that 'peoples republic of Liverpool' stuff.
If they have spent the last 2 weeks selling shares to the exact amount of the debt, then surely a deal must be on.
This deal will almost certainly make us the most supported club in the world by about a billion people and the red army will be marching.
If they have spent the last 2 weeks selling shares to the exact amount of the debt, then surely a deal must be on.
This deal will almost certainly make us the most supported club in the world by about a billion people and the red army will be marching.
Liverpool has an amazing history with regard to the Chinese people. One of the first and largest Chinatown's apparantly, tens of thousands of sailors from China passing through the port in the 20s and 30s and a big fuck off Chinese gate thingy in the city, one of the biggest around.
I'm going outside right now to hug the first Chinese person I meet.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41235.msg1148391#msg1148391 date=1280960240]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=41235.msg1148387#msg1148387 date=1280959932]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41235.msg1148369#msg1148369 date=1280957617]
Where is the condescending, patronising twat Cockring by the way? He's been rather quiet since things have been looking a bit more rosy. It would appear that there's going to be a whole load of conspiracy theorists left with a damn big hole in their lives. Fuck. Just what will they do with their time?
[/quote]
Don't tempt fate, we still haven't got a new owner and there is a 50:50 chance he/they could be dicks.
[/quote]
I know I know. It was a cheap shot based on no fact. He's still a patronising, condescending cunt though.
[/quote]
You're confusing him with your mum.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=41235.msg1148387#msg1148387 date=1280959932]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41235.msg1148369#msg1148369 date=1280957617]
Where is the condescending, patronising twat Cockring by the way? He's been rather quiet since things have been looking a bit more rosy. It would appear that there's going to be a whole load of conspiracy theorists left with a damn big hole in their lives. Fuck. Just what will they do with their time?
[/quote]
Don't tempt fate, we still haven't got a new owner and there is a 50:50 chance he/they could be dicks.
[/quote]
I know I know. It was a cheap shot based on no fact. He's still a patronising, condescending cunt though.
[/quote]
You're confusing him with your mum.
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