Jesus...Suso....
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2005:06
Florent S.-Pongolle 7 1 1 4 1 2 16
Darren Potter 0 0 1 6 0 0 7
Daniel Agger 4 0 0 0 0 0 4
Zak Whitbread 0 0 1 2 0 0 3
Anthony Le Tallec 0 0 0 2 0 0 2
David Raven 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Antonio Barragan 0 0 0 1 0 0 1
2004:05
Neil Mellor 9 1 4 2 16
Darren Potter 2 1 4 3 10
Anthony Le Tallec 4 0 0 3 7
John Welsh 3 1 2 1 7
Zak Whitbread 0 1 3 0 4
David Raven 1 1 1 0 3
Richie Partridge 0 0 2 0 2
Mark Smyth 0 0 1 0 1
Florent S.-Pongolle 7 1 1 4 1 2 16
Darren Potter 0 0 1 6 0 0 7
Daniel Agger 4 0 0 0 0 0 4
Zak Whitbread 0 0 1 2 0 0 3
Anthony Le Tallec 0 0 0 2 0 0 2
David Raven 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Antonio Barragan 0 0 0 1 0 0 1
2004:05
Neil Mellor 9 1 4 2 16
Darren Potter 2 1 4 3 10
Anthony Le Tallec 4 0 0 3 7
John Welsh 3 1 2 1 7
Zak Whitbread 0 1 3 0 4
David Raven 1 1 1 0 3
Richie Partridge 0 0 2 0 2
Mark Smyth 0 0 1 0 1
bitterness and bile? for being one of the older members on our site, you surely act like a little child sometimes. If you read what I've written (and you probably haven't bar that little line, see below), you'll note that I give credit to Rafa for revamping our youth system, getting Borrelo etc. But hey, go on with your childish insults (Surprised Ryan stooped to that level when he complains about Brendan continually).
Thanks for proving my point ... So he was healthy for the last few months of the season, and got two sub appearances ... Wow. That shows my point exactly.
Let's make this really simple - if you were a youngster in the LFC set up with any potential, would you want Rafa managing you? Can you name me a successful talent he's nurtured in his management career in Valencia, Liverpool and Inter? Any 20-24 year olds who he nutured into being a top class talent? And please Ryan, don't mention Lucas.
Why post stats related to players we've already discussed? And we have a great statto in Binny -
Thanks for proving my point ... So he was healthy for the last few months of the season, and got two sub appearances ... Wow. That shows my point exactly.
Let's make this really simple - if you were a youngster in the LFC set up with any potential, would you want Rafa managing you? Can you name me a successful talent he's nurtured in his management career in Valencia, Liverpool and Inter? Any 20-24 year olds who he nutured into being a top class talent? And please Ryan, don't mention Lucas.
Why post stats related to players we've already discussed? And we have a great statto in Binny -
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=43540.msg1255550#msg1255550 date=1295343299]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255529#msg1255529 date=1295340265]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=43540.msg1255417#msg1255417 date=1295310841]
He could be outrages! Thank fuck Benitez isnt here to bury him and then send him on loan to the conference or something!!!
[/quote]
Can you name one player who Benitez sent on loan who is now doing well and playing at a better level?
I'll bet you can't. Its this kind of pathetic, ill thought out jibe against people that irks me the most. Why did his name even need to be brought into this discussion?
Youth players; some of them make it, most of them don't. That's not a Benitez thing, that's the case at pretty much every football club.
[/quote]
It was just a general statement, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it would have been a legitimate concern of mine under previous management. Ok maybe not being sent to the conference but somewhere else perhaps.
Compared to other clubs, the scum, arsenal etc, we never really blooded youngsters under Benitez. The reserves under Benitez seemed more like a quick fix for turning fees of under a million into profit. And ill bring him into it if I want to, Whether you think its knee jerk, ill thought out or whatever the fact is that Suso does stand a better chance under someone like Kenny of breaking into the first team.
Oh and your first line, is that disagreeing or agreeing or what the fuck. One player thats playing at a better level than what? The reserves where he was kept or the first team? I dont understand. Maybe you should be a tad clearer when constructing your knee jerk ill thought out questions! However if its loans and benitez you want to talk about I know that if you were loaned out under Rafa it was pretty much the kiss of death for your liverpool career!
Plus everything le tallac said!!! Its not Rafa bashing either, its just being happier with the attitude of the current management towards promoting youth. Jesus, some people are so touchy!
[/quote]
Seeing as you are being so obtuse about my "ill thought out reaction" to your post I'll spell it out to you.
Name any player who Benitez sent out on loan who has been successful with any other club at a higher level than LFC are currently playing at? ie the reason he sent them out on loan was that they weren't good enough for our first team. The fact that none of them have "made it" anywhere else apart from at clubs like Barnsley (Hammill) and Forest (Anderson) to name but two examples shows that he was right to let them go on loan.
We could criticise Benitez for bringing the "talent" in the first place, but as I've alluded to previously, not every player who comes through the youth team can or will be the new Fowler or Gerrard etc.
Oh and by your own admission, your initial post was a bit of an exaggeration, so perhaps that explains my "ill thought out post".
And LTW, not all people who defend Benitez are RCDNWer's, that's a lazy tag and I expected better from you...
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255529#msg1255529 date=1295340265]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=43540.msg1255417#msg1255417 date=1295310841]
He could be outrages! Thank fuck Benitez isnt here to bury him and then send him on loan to the conference or something!!!
[/quote]
Can you name one player who Benitez sent on loan who is now doing well and playing at a better level?
I'll bet you can't. Its this kind of pathetic, ill thought out jibe against people that irks me the most. Why did his name even need to be brought into this discussion?
Youth players; some of them make it, most of them don't. That's not a Benitez thing, that's the case at pretty much every football club.
[/quote]
It was just a general statement, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it would have been a legitimate concern of mine under previous management. Ok maybe not being sent to the conference but somewhere else perhaps.
Compared to other clubs, the scum, arsenal etc, we never really blooded youngsters under Benitez. The reserves under Benitez seemed more like a quick fix for turning fees of under a million into profit. And ill bring him into it if I want to, Whether you think its knee jerk, ill thought out or whatever the fact is that Suso does stand a better chance under someone like Kenny of breaking into the first team.
Oh and your first line, is that disagreeing or agreeing or what the fuck. One player thats playing at a better level than what? The reserves where he was kept or the first team? I dont understand. Maybe you should be a tad clearer when constructing your knee jerk ill thought out questions! However if its loans and benitez you want to talk about I know that if you were loaned out under Rafa it was pretty much the kiss of death for your liverpool career!
Plus everything le tallac said!!! Its not Rafa bashing either, its just being happier with the attitude of the current management towards promoting youth. Jesus, some people are so touchy!
[/quote]
Seeing as you are being so obtuse about my "ill thought out reaction" to your post I'll spell it out to you.
Name any player who Benitez sent out on loan who has been successful with any other club at a higher level than LFC are currently playing at? ie the reason he sent them out on loan was that they weren't good enough for our first team. The fact that none of them have "made it" anywhere else apart from at clubs like Barnsley (Hammill) and Forest (Anderson) to name but two examples shows that he was right to let them go on loan.
We could criticise Benitez for bringing the "talent" in the first place, but as I've alluded to previously, not every player who comes through the youth team can or will be the new Fowler or Gerrard etc.
Oh and by your own admission, your initial post was a bit of an exaggeration, so perhaps that explains my "ill thought out post".
And LTW, not all people who defend Benitez are RCDNWer's, that's a lazy tag and I expected better from you...
May i politely ask, how that long list of players is proving anything?
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
I have some sympathy with LTWs viewpoint. Benitez was often criticized for his youth policy whilst he was here and by a large percentage of the board. He bought many players for the reserves, but also bought many senior players for the first team so that there was no real path through to the first team for the youngsters. It was a bit of a scattergun policy that didn't really seem to add up half the time. It was only really towards the end of his tenure that youngsters started getting a bit more of a look in and that can largely be attributed to the fact that so many of his buys were disastrous.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255742#msg1255742 date=1295352871]
May i politely ask, how that long list of players is proving anything?
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
[/quote]
In fairness, Houllier bombed out Warnock, Baragan was homesick and we made a profit on him, Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem, and the other players you list have not really pulled up trees elsewhere. Of course the counter argument could be that if they were backed here they may have pulled up trees but I'm not sure it was *that* likely.
May i politely ask, how that long list of players is proving anything?
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
[/quote]
In fairness, Houllier bombed out Warnock, Baragan was homesick and we made a profit on him, Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem, and the other players you list have not really pulled up trees elsewhere. Of course the counter argument could be that if they were backed here they may have pulled up trees but I'm not sure it was *that* likely.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255742#msg1255742 date=1295352871]
May i politely ask, how that long list of players is proving anything?
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
[/quote]
In fairness, Houllier bombed out Warnock, Baragan was homesick and we made a profit on him, Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem, and the other players you list have not really pulled up trees elsewhere. Of course the counter argument could be that if they were backed here they may have pulled up trees but I'm not sure it was *that* likely.
[/quote]
But he was as talented as Spearing is. But it would have taken a huge tragedy for Benitez to give him a start while he was here. That is my point. Benitez took the safer option of putting on an experienced player almost every single time, even after a youngster showed a bit of promise in a cameo appearance here and there. How then is it possible for a youngster to make it through? You have got to be as talented as Gerrard to make it through....that doesn't happen very often. But promoting regular squadies using youth policy usually happens more often than it happens in our club. Rafa takes a huge share of that blame...
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255742#msg1255742 date=1295352871]
May i politely ask, how that long list of players is proving anything?
If anything it proves that there were quite a few youngsters who showed enough to be promoted at least once, but were not backed from that point.
I think Rafa was backed sufficiently at least when it came to purchasing youth. In fact he was one the most highly backed manager. Yet, in 6 years he couldn't even manage more than 1 or 2 regular squadies from his youth policy/acquisition. That is the bottomline and so I think it is a very very valid criticism of his managerial methods and ideologies.
If you think giving the odd sub appearance here and there is the definition of giving youth a chance, it's a little wonder why you don't see why Rafa was quite inadequate in this area.
Kenny was not afraid to use Spearing on his very second game in charge in spite of having Poulsen available on the bench. I think we have had at least a handful of players at Spearing's level who were not backed.
Warnock
Hammill
Guthrie
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Baragan
are all players who were capable of being Squad players who could have been used a bit better or managed better in their formative years to get the best of the talent and promise they showed. Yet Rafa would rather buy a more experienced player than rely on one of these.
6 years is a long fucking time to cover up with excuses. He was certainly found wanting in this area.
[/quote]
In fairness, Houllier bombed out Warnock, Baragan was homesick and we made a profit on him, Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem, and the other players you list have not really pulled up trees elsewhere. Of course the counter argument could be that if they were backed here they may have pulled up trees but I'm not sure it was *that* likely.
[/quote]
But he was as talented as Spearing is. But it would have taken a huge tragedy for Benitez to give him a start while he was here. That is my point. Benitez took the safer option of putting on an experienced player almost every single time, even after a youngster showed a bit of promise in a cameo appearance here and there. How then is it possible for a youngster to make it through? You have got to be as talented as Gerrard to make it through....that doesn't happen very often. But promoting regular squadies using youth policy usually happens more often than it happens in our club. Rafa takes a huge share of that blame...
Well said Jules & Keni ...
Jules sums it up nicely:
Jules sums it up nicely:
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255752#msg1255752 date=1295353356]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
He was talking about Le tallec the player....???
or am i getting whooshed..
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
He was talking about Le tallec the player....???
or am i getting whooshed..
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255752#msg1255752 date=1295353356]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
Didn't mean to offend, just didn't think the discussion was going to get anywhere.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
Didn't mean to offend, just didn't think the discussion was going to get anywhere.
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255758#msg1255758 date=1295353618]
Well said Jules & Keni ...
Jules sums it up nicely:
Kelly has made it through, but he does seem exceptional.
Liverpool have a long history of players making it through Fowler Owen Gerrard McManamen, BUT ITS MAYBE 1-2 a DECADE that make it!
Kelly is the first player now since way back, its probably the same ratio????
The way some of you are going on, you'd think we was bringing in full teams before Rafa came.
Rafa rebuilt the academy, we ARE seeing the benefits now, with the kids coming up, and over the next couple of years we will see more
Well said Jules & Keni ...
Jules sums it up nicely:
[/quote]
Kelly has made it through, but he does seem exceptional.
Liverpool have a long history of players making it through Fowler Owen Gerrard McManamen, BUT ITS MAYBE 1-2 a DECADE that make it!
Kelly is the first player now since way back, its probably the same ratio????
The way some of you are going on, you'd think we was bringing in full teams before Rafa came.
Rafa rebuilt the academy, we ARE seeing the benefits now, with the kids coming up, and over the next couple of years we will see more
Everyone is a little bit right and talking a bit of pish too.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
What angered me with Benitez was that he picked his underachieving senior players instead of the "up-comers" and that he ultimately went for experience before youth.
Warnock vs Dossena
Anderson/Hammill vs Riera/Jovanovic(just saying)
Jack Hobbs/Ayala vs Kyrgiakos
Kelly vs Johnson
Goes to show that we could have saved a lot of money.
I agree that Benitez did give them a chance, but at the same time it seemed like he didn't have any belief in them.
There's several ways to look at it:
* Maybe he was right in getting rid of Hobbs, Anderson, Hammill and Warnock. I mean none of them are exactly setting the world alight and only one of them is in the premier league.
* However Hobbs, Anderson and Hammill are considered to be very prominent players in their respective teams and they all play in the Championship. The same division Blackpool were in last season and they beat us twice.
Warnock vs Dossena
Anderson/Hammill vs Riera/Jovanovic(just saying)
Jack Hobbs/Ayala vs Kyrgiakos
Kelly vs Johnson
Goes to show that we could have saved a lot of money.
I agree that Benitez did give them a chance, but at the same time it seemed like he didn't have any belief in them.
There's several ways to look at it:
* Maybe he was right in getting rid of Hobbs, Anderson, Hammill and Warnock. I mean none of them are exactly setting the world alight and only one of them is in the premier league.
* However Hobbs, Anderson and Hammill are considered to be very prominent players in their respective teams and they all play in the Championship. The same division Blackpool were in last season and they beat us twice.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255773#msg1255773 date=1295354002]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Here's an 'opinion'. "Nabil was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off."
He was fucking turd.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Here's an 'opinion'. "Nabil was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off."
He was fucking turd.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255773#msg1255773 date=1295354002]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Fuck I banned myself from posting stats and just did it,
I was saying Rafa played El Zar 32 times over a few years, but PLAYING him didn't make him get better, he was still shit and got Shipped out.
I thought it was you who said he didn't play them enough and let them develope, sorry if it wasn't
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Fuck I banned myself from posting stats and just did it,
I was saying Rafa played El Zar 32 times over a few years, but PLAYING him didn't make him get better, he was still shit and got Shipped out.
I thought it was you who said he didn't play them enough and let them develope, sorry if it wasn't
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43540.msg1255776#msg1255776 date=1295354122]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255773#msg1255773 date=1295354002]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Here's an 'opinion'. "Nabil was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off."
He was fucking turd.
[/quote]
Thanks Doc, I knew I posted an opinion.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255773#msg1255773 date=1295354002]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=43540.msg1255766#msg1255766 date=1295353787]
kingJulian Nabil El Zar was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off.
Nabil El Zhar
Birthdate: 27.08.1986
Birthplace: Alès France
Other clubs: Saint Etienne, PAOK (on loan)
Bought from: Saint Etienne
Signed for LFC: 200000 21.08.2006
International debut: 26.03.2008 vs. Belgium
International caps: 8/2 (19.11.2008) - unconfirmed
Liverpool debut: 29.11.2006
Last appearance: 09.05.2010
Debut goal: 31.10.2007
Last goal: 31.10.2007
Contract expiry: 2012 (July 2009)
LFC league games/goals: 21 / 0
Total LFC games/goals: 32 / 1
[/quote]
this is supposed to prove what exactly?
I'd rather you posted opinions than some of those numbers, which mean nothing...
[/quote]
Here's an 'opinion'. "Nabil was given ample opportunity, he played 32 times for us during Rafa's reign, but you can't make a silk purse from a cows ear and he was shipped off."
He was fucking turd.
[/quote]
Thanks Doc, I knew I posted an opinion.
I think it's obvious that none of the young players that Rafa gave a chance to were good enough. Proven by the fact that none of them have gone onto anything, with maybe one or two debatable exceptions. It's also obvious that he wasn't ignoring youth as he has given a lot of them a run, and would probably have Kelly more games if he had been fit. He never would have put all the effort he did into the youth set up if he didn't want to give them a chance.
Loads of people wanted rafa to give the amazing insua a chance, then moaned when he was shit.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255752#msg1255752 date=1295353356]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
[/quote]
Hehehe!
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
[/quote]
Hehehe!
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=43540.msg1255759#msg1255759 date=1295353638]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255752#msg1255752 date=1295353356]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
He was talking about Le tallec the player....???
or am i getting whooshed..
[/quote]
Whoosh.
Asbo,
I agree ... and I have no issue with not seeing that type of player every year, two or three. I just want our squad to not be filled with expensive dross, when there is passionate, eager kids who can do equal (if not better) job. That's what I mean by 'poor youth policy'. Again, I am GRATEFUL for the revamping of our youth sides (Rafa 100%) and Borrelo (Rafa 100%). That doesn't mean I cannot see the 'negative aspects' of his mgmt.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43540.msg1255752#msg1255752 date=1295353356]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43540.msg1255749#msg1255749 date=1295353143]
Le Tallec believed the incredible hype about him and had an attitude problem[/quote]
Mate, I'm not that cocky ... Come on, no need for personal digs.
And Asbo, you're ridiculous. If you name 'Rafa haters' on this site, I'd be amazed if I was on anybody's list. And thanks Mamma Mia - much props to you too.
[/quote]
He was talking about Le tallec the player....???
or am i getting whooshed..
[/quote]
Whoosh.
Asbo,
I agree ... and I have no issue with not seeing that type of player every year, two or three. I just want our squad to not be filled with expensive dross, when there is passionate, eager kids who can do equal (if not better) job. That's what I mean by 'poor youth policy'. Again, I am GRATEFUL for the revamping of our youth sides (Rafa 100%) and Borrelo (Rafa 100%). That doesn't mean I cannot see the 'negative aspects' of his mgmt.
- Status
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