Jamie Carragher: I’ll quit Anfield if I must

[SaintGeorge67]

Spot on Mark

 

[iseered]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=39193.msg1065252#msg1065252 date=1268049858]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39193.msg1065250#msg1065250 date=1268049473]
Based on his form this season?
[/quote]

You're right Ross; in addition we should also renegotiate Gerrards contract down to 25k per week based on his form as well - Johnson too because he's been injured; Aquilani's barely played so he should only get £250; using the same sliding scale Lucas owes the club 2million.
[/quote]
lol how awesome would it be if this was how it actually worked.
"omg NO! he scored a hattrick - again! the club is broke!"
"no look, is ok, someone nutmegged insua again - he'll cover it"

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39193.msg1065258#msg1065258 date=1268050805]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39193.msg1065255#msg1065255 date=1268050261]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39193.msg1065250#msg1065250 date=1268049473]
Based on his form this season?
[/quote]

Forgetting the form, desire and commitment he's shown for the last decade? That would be nothing short of disgraceful and a kick in the teeth for one of our best defenders ever.

Football is what it is Ross, the best at it get paid highly. No one can deny Carragher's love for the club, he's shown it enough on and off the pitch and just because he's had a shakey season (which everyone suffers at some point) doesn't mean we should start calling the shots over his future. He deserves to see out his career here. If he's not good enough at some point to be starting every game, then demote him to the bench ala Hyypia and let him provide experience to the team.
Denying him a new contract would be fickle, and frankly, a fucking disgrace.
[/quote]

that's what I want to see but that's not going to happen as carra will leave so that puts pressure on new players to hit the ground and that puts pressure on us to remain relatively injury free. what is wrong with seeing out your career at liverpool? once upon a time you had to get players out of the club with a crowbar.
[/quote]

I think you're reading too much into it Neil, it sounds like he's a bit upset at not being offered a new deal yet and he's hitting back. I doubt that Carra believes that he's likely to be leaving soon.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39193.msg1065266#msg1065266 date=1268051663]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39193.msg1065258#msg1065258 date=1268050805]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39193.msg1065255#msg1065255 date=1268050261]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39193.msg1065250#msg1065250 date=1268049473]
Based on his form this season?
[/quote]

Forgetting the form, desire and commitment he's shown for the last decade? That would be nothing short of disgraceful and a kick in the teeth for one of our best defenders ever.

Football is what it is Ross, the best at it get paid highly. No one can deny Carragher's love for the club, he's shown it enough on and off the pitch and just because he's had a shakey season (which everyone suffers at some point) doesn't mean we should start calling the shots over his future. He deserves to see out his career here. If he's not good enough at some point to be starting every game, then demote him to the bench ala Hyypia and let him provide experience to the team.
Denying him a new contract would be fickle, and frankly, a fucking disgrace.
[/quote]

that's what I want to see but that's not going to happen as carra will leave so that puts pressure on new players to hit the ground and that puts pressure on us to remain relatively injury free. what is wrong with seeing out your career at liverpool? once upon a time you had to get players out of the club with a crowbar.
[/quote]

I think you're reading too much into it Neil, it sounds like he's a bit upset at not being offered a new deal yet and he's hitting back. I doubt that Carra believes that he's likely to be leaving soon.
[/quote]

I'm not talking about this contract I'm talking about jamie's next contract, admittedly I am looking too far ahead.

 

[grjt]

Re: Jamie Carragher: I’ll quit Anfield if I must

Absolutely right Mark - put yourself in Carras position, Benitez is out in the press talking about how all the "key" players are signed up to new contracts, or are close to agreeing terms, meanwhile Carra is left waiting until the end of the season (and as such clearly not on the "critical" list). I would guess he's simply rattling his sabre at the perceived slight.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39193.msg1065255#msg1065255 date=1268050261]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39193.msg1065250#msg1065250 date=1268049473]
Based on his form this season?
[/quote]

Forgetting the form, desire and commitment he's shown for the last decade? That would be nothing short of disgraceful and a kick in the teeth for one of our best defenders ever.

Football is what it is Ross, the best at it get paid highly. No one can deny Carragher's love for the club, he's shown it enough on and off the pitch and just because he's had a shakey season (which everyone suffers at some point) doesn't mean we should start calling the shots over his future. He deserves to see out his career here. If he's not good enough at some point to be starting every game, then demote him to the bench ala Hyypia and let him provide experience to the team.

Denying him a new contract would be fickle, and frankly, a fucking disgrace.
[/quote]
Absolutely spot on.

Carragher for me is the epitome of what's been great about Liverpool for the past ten years or so. Maybe not the best defender outthere but because of his heart and love for the club and his sheer desire and determination he's been upthere with the very best for the best part of 5-6 years in my opinion.

One poor season doesn't change anything. At least it shouldn't be.

 

[LarryHagman]

New contract for quite easily our best defender. What's the debate?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39193.msg1065302#msg1065302 date=1268058442]

New contract for quite easily our best defender. What's the debate?

[/quote]

there is no debate for the new contract I think the debate is whether or not carra should see out his career here even if he is relagated to the bench.

 

[LarryHagman]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39193.msg1065306#msg1065306 date=1268058547]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39193.msg1065302#msg1065302 date=1268058442]

New contract for quite easily our best defender. What's the debate?

[/quote]

there is no debate for the new contract I think the debate is whether or not carra should see out his career here even if he is relagated to the bench.
[/quote]

Well I don't think we should give him a contract until he's 47 but, whilst he's our best, which he quite clearly is, it's no biggy.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39193.msg1065309#msg1065309 date=1268058670]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39193.msg1065306#msg1065306 date=1268058547]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39193.msg1065302#msg1065302 date=1268058442]

New contract for quite easily our best defender. What's the debate?

[/quote]

there is no debate for the new contract I think the debate is whether or not carra should see out his career here even if he is relagated to the bench.
[/quote]

Well I don't think we should give him a contract until he's 47 but, whilst he's our best, which he quite clearly is, it's no biggy.




[/quote]

personally as I said I'd give him a two year contract then a rolling contract after that but I doubt jamie would go for that.

 

[Ryan]

By the way, here's the full article on this...

From The Sunday Times March 7, 2010

Jamie Carragher: "I'm not scared to leave Anfield"
Jonathan Northcroft, Football Correspondent


Mark Chester, of Liverpool’s Tactics 4 Families project, is picking his ideal XI for a classroom of 10-year-olds. Defenders? Easy. You can’t beat Jamie Carragher. In fact, imagine a back four where every player is as indomitable as Anfield’s No 23. Strikers? Chester wants players who would chase down every half-chance. How about two more Carraghers? Delight flashes across faces as kids realise Chester is selecting what Liverpool fans sing they dream about, a “Team of Carraghersâ€. “Brilliant team,†shouts one boy. “A very brilliant team,†concurs another. A third lad’s opinion: “Very, very, very bad.†Carragher is actually present, having come to Northway Primary School to help the lesson, but his critic is unabashed. This is Merseyside, where having an opinion and defending it stridently is virtually a civic duty.

The lad supports Everton.

The moment delights Citizen Carra. He couldn’t love what he calls “Liverpool life†more. He has two children himself, James, seven, who’s “totally into his footballâ€, and Mia, five, “a character and a half who loves singing and dancing and X Factorâ€. In summary: “They’re not shy. They’re Liverpool kids.†He reflects how he hardly gets to see his mates any more but “my kids are my mates now reallyâ€. He’s “desperate†to take James and Mia to Chill Factor, an indoor ski centre in Manchester which the pair fixate about, but football’s relentless schedule makes it difficult. Carra laughs.

“Footballers are privileged but people look at the money we earn and the cars some drive and think we don’t do normal stuff, like we have servants to look after our babies or something . . . I’m up at half seven every morning, getting the kids ready for school, making sure they’re brushing their teeth, getting their breakfast, taking them to school. That’s the same as anyone really.â€

His workplace just happens to be special. He has been Liverpool’s company man since signing ‘S’ forms 18 years ago, making 611 appearances, and a record 120 in Europe. If a Team of Carraghers is the Kop’s dream, a side without him is its nightmare. Yet Rafa Benitez says, because of age, Carragher will not be considered for a contract extension until this summer, when his current deal will be a year from expiry. Carragher only turned 32 five weeks ago, has enough juice in his legs to have started the most games of any Liverpool player this season, and none give Benitez greater service.

It is even harder imagining Carragher in another club’s shirt than Steven Gerrard. But Carragher’s outlook is as no-nonsense as his defending. He’s not going to become an old lag clinging to the red shirt or coasting as a squad player if Liverpool prove lukewarm about his future usefulness, and would consider other playing options, including abroad, provided a move suited his kids.

Benitez says: “With Carra we will have to see.â€

“I’ve no problem with that. That’s up to the club. I play my football and I’ve got 12 months left in the summer. The club will give me a new contract if they want to, if not it doesn’t matter, I’ll still play my best and if I have to move I’ll move, no problem. It wouldn’t bother me,†Carragher says. “I made the England decision [to retire] very quickly. I’m not scared of making big decisions.â€

His club still need him, on recent evidence. Carragher has been at his cussed best as Liverpool (one league defeat in 10 games) finally have turned their campaign round. “I’ve come through this season well because at the start it was ‘Jamie Carragher’s finished’. The whole team was struggling and probably myself, Mascherano, Stevie, since we’re classed as the spine of the team, we were getting the criticism. And people jumped on me because of my age. I had a bad first half at West Ham, a really poor game, but I’d have one of them every season. Then Drogba got the better of me for a goal in the 90th minute against Chelsea when I’d played well for the other 89. I had to get on with it. It sort of became me against the world and I don’t mean I was sitting at home crying, I was going into training every day to prove to everyone I’ve still got a career.

“I’ve always thought footballers who say they’ve nothing to prove are talking rubbish. Every day on the training pitch you have got to prove you’re better than the competition. I’m not finished and the performance I gave against Rooney, best striker in the world, the performances versus Everton, Villa away, Tottenham, big games . . . I was there.†Being “thereâ€, on the field, is all-important.

He once had a collapsed lung and was back playing — wheezing and grimacing — three weeks later. This season he has ignored a twisted ankle and strained groin to turn out during difficult times. “I’m proud of the fact that . . . †He chooses his words carefully. “ . . . well, I’ve played with lots of players like this and when it’s not going well it’s easy to get out of the firing line, pick up a suspension on purpose, get a little nick, stay out for two or three weeks.

“I was always there, I’m maybe too honest at times, always there to be shot at. But I don’t feel you’ve got to be 100% fit to play. I’ve got to be 100% injured not to play. And the reason is simple: I’m terrified of losing my place.†Liverpool also have status fears. The race for fourth spot is “going to the wireâ€, says Carragher. “Manchester City’s win at Chelsea was a big one but you don’t know if it’ll galvanise them or prove a freak result. Tottenham are the ones I’m wary of. They keep a lot of clean sheets and score goals and have fantasy players. But, when it gets to the wire, there’s games you need to win 1-0 and over the past month Liverpool have been probably one of the best teams in Europe at grinding a result out.

“That’s what we’re doing, grinding. We’ve come back through fight, desire to do well, and we could never be accused of lacking that. But we’re still not playing fantastic football, we’re not good enough to.â€

In March 2009, Liverpool thrashed Manchester United, Real Madrid and Aston Villa. Why does March 2010 find the club in such a different place? “What’s gone wrong? I think about it all the time. I don’t think we’re as bad as we’ve been this season. This has been us at our worst, and last season was us at our best. The ‘real’ us is probably somewhere in the middle.â€

Pundits reckon finishing outside the Champions League places would be a “disaster†for Liverpool. “Nahh!†Carragher snorts. “People talk as if we’ve finished top four every year. We haven’t. Under Houllier and in Rafa’s first season we didn’t manage it. Liverpool FC will always be there. The top clubs will always regroup. If we finish fifth or sixth I know people say this player or that player will go . . . well if they do, somebody else will come in. Good players will always play for Liverpool. This club doesn’t depend on one player or individuals, it’s a top club, always will be.â€

And, for Carragher, being a top club means you chase opportunities in all competitions to finish first rather than obsess about being fourth in one. Thursday’s Europa League clash with Lille is as big as tomorrow’s Premier League game against Wigan. “I don’t understand why people rubbish the Europa League. There are only two European trophies up for grabs every year. I mean, if you asked would I rather get in the semi-finals of the Champions League or win the Europa League I’d rather win the Europa. At the end of my career I could say, ‘I won that’. We got to the Champions League final in 2007, brilliant, but what did it mean in the end?

“People ask would you rather win the Europa Cup or finish top four? Well sometimes I think, ‘Win the cup’. I always hear Leeds got to the semi-final of the Champions League in 2001. So what? Newcastle had a good run. So what? It’s about winning trophies. The only way to make this season positive is by achieving both targets, finish top four and win the Europa League. Even if we do, next season we need to move on.†How? “The squad is capable of producing better and we probably need two or three players who will go into the team and make an impact every week and three or four more to beef up the squad. We probably need six or seven signings.â€

Tactics 4 Families teaches family behaviour using football metaphors. Your “family†is your “teamâ€, whether it’s a traditional unit or involves a single parent or other carers, and members must work together. It’s an especially significant message in areas of Liverpool where social breakdown is high. “My parents split up when I was 10 but it wasn’t one of them where you never saw a parent. I saw my dad every day. I was upset but we moved on and I have a great relationship with my mum and dad,†he says. “My heart goes out to kids who are not so lucky. I’m from Bootle and stuff goes on there with families that makes me realise I’m lucky.â€

Family life is the factor that, post-playing, might stop him making what seems a natural progression into coaching. “I don’t like the idea of moving my kids out of school. I would for a playing thing, because that’s my career and how we make our money as a family, but managers can be out of a job in two or three months,†he says. He’s about to do his ‘A’ coaching licence. “It’s like being back at school! The thought of coming up with a new session every day, writing it down, all that stuff . . . I’m not the most academic of people. I’d be a manager rather than a coach.†He smiles. “I think I’m a pretty strong character who’d make decisions.â€

Liverpool, if they vacillate over keeping him, should not doubt that.

• Tactics 4 Families, backed by the Premier League’s Creating Chances Programme, is a Liverpool FC project aimed at supporting positive family relationships.

GROWING PAINS

Carragher has followed the debate, prompted by the John Terry scandal, on whether footballers should be role models. ‘We have become like movie or pop stars and can easily be on the front pages as well as the back pages. We are role models and get a lot of attention, so people have a right to expect us to do the right things,’ he says.

‘But we’re only human. One minute you’re on a YTS contract, the next you’re on thousands of pounds a week. You go out for a drink, buy a fast car and end up in situations you shouldn’t. But then you’ve got to grow up.’

Re the bolded bit; I read this the other day and immediately thought of Agger & Riera. No idea why.

What do you think?

 

[franklyfrank]

Good find Ryan.

And yeah he could well be having a subtle dig at Riera, Agger and co with the injury thing. who knows?

You have to admire Carra's dedication and commitement to his profession but even he looks to be a beaten man nowadays.

Maybe he's sick to the back teeth of playing with players that don't share his fighting and battling instinct when the going gets tough. and who would blame him?

Btw i don't think i could stomach watching him turn out for another team.

 

[themn]

Actually, when you think of how long he's played for us, it could be anyone from a very long list.

Doesn't have to be someone from the present squad.

 

[Squiggles]

Re: Jamie Carragher: I’ll quit Anfield if I must

I'm not convinced having a 33-34 year old defender on 90K a week can be justified at our club (although neither can a single penny spent on Degen)

If we believe he can keep playing first team football regularly then yes, there's no problem keeping him on his wage for another year.

If we feel he cannot and will gradually be reduced down the order, then he will have to take a pay-cut or else find another club, preferably abroad.

Carragher knows the tough realities of running a football club and would accept either decision with little problem.

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39193.msg1066886#msg1066886 date=1268187458]
I'm not convinced having a 33-34 year old defender on 90K a week can be justified at our club (although neither can a single penny spent on Degen)

If we believe he can keep playing first team football regularly then yes, there's no problem keeping him on his wage for another year.

If we feel he cannot and will gradually be reduced down the order, then he will have to take a pay-cut or else find another club, preferably abroad.

Carragher knows the tough realities of running a football club and would accept either decision with little problem.
[/quote]

Agreed. He is near the end of his career and we should offer him a deal which pays him half of what he earns now. He shouldnt be playing as many games a season as he is now

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39193.msg1066899#msg1066899 date=1268194289]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39193.msg1066886#msg1066886 date=1268187458]
I'm not convinced having a 33-34 year old defender on 90K a week can be justified at our club (although neither can a single penny spent on Degen)

If we believe he can keep playing first team football regularly then yes, there's no problem keeping him on his wage for another year.

If we feel he cannot and will gradually be reduced down the order, then he will have to take a pay-cut or else find another club, preferably abroad.

Carragher knows the tough realities of running a football club and would accept either decision with little problem.
[/quote]

Agreed. He is near the end of his career and we should offer him a deal which pays him half of what he earns now. He shouldnt be playing as many games a season as he is now
[/quote]

So we should offer Carra $45K instead of the $90K that he currently earns?

He'd tell the club to go and royally fuck itself, and would be well within his rights to.

 

[Mistadobalina]

He our longest serving and most loyal player. He deserves to stay on that kind of money until hes no longer a weekly fixture in the 1st team.

 

[Ryan]

How do we think that conversation would go anyway?

Employer: So, you earn 90,000 a week, and have been here for 15 years. We see you're getting older though. With that in mind would we think you deserve only half of your current earnings. 45K it is. You ok with that?

Employee: Right. And my colleagues, they'll be offered similar paycuts?

Employer: No.

Employee: Sounds awesome. Where do I sign?

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Fuck it. If they drop Carra we should immediately re-hire him as the new manager and tell Rafa to fuck off.

 

[the_khl]

I can absolutely assure you Carras not referring to Agger Ryan.

Why would he take such a sly dig at a team-mate, whom despite severe back-pains that forced him to be standing up in the flight all the way to Lyon still went on and played the full 90 minutes?

Every manager and coach who's been involved with Agger says the exact opposite of him actually. Only if he had actually broken something in half he'd accept to be rested. He's always played throughout the pain-barrier and often not to his own good. As in making slight injuries far worse.

I know you don't have the highest thoughts of our Agger but come on...

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39193.msg1066955#msg1066955 date=1268211056]
I can absolutely assure you Carras not referring to Agger Ryan.[/quote]

Don't take it personally K - it's Agger and Ryan. It's like you and spoting Swedish talents. Not really a match made in heaven.

 

[spider-Neil]

the best players at the club should be the top earners whether they are 20 or 35

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39193.msg1066962#msg1066962 date=1268211721]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39193.msg1066955#msg1066955 date=1268211056]
I can absolutely assure you Carras not referring to Agger Ryan.[/quote]

Don't take it personally K - it's Agger and Ryan. It's like you and spoting Swedish talents. Not really a match made in heaven.
[/quote]
Haha... it's true isn't I haven't spotted one talent from Sweden....

Actually, I have mentioned a LB called Oscar Wendt earlier. He is playing in Denmark though so I don't know whether that counts.

I've got high hopes for Kancaliknic though.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=themn link=topic=39193.msg1066871#msg1066871 date=1268184593]
Actually, when you think of how long he's played for us, it could be anyone from a very long list.

Doesn't have to be someone from the present squad.
[/quote]

Exactly, I think he was generalising, witch-hunt over.

As to Carra's contract.
I agree with Squiggs to a certain extent, it would be madness to lash long term £90k a week contracts around to people nearing the end of their career, if they were not going to earn it, they didn't do it with Sami, and they aren't going to with Carra
He has been, indeed still is, a great servant and of course that should be recognised.
Perhaps a two year contract, on whatever the wage might be, leading to a two year contract on a reduced wage leading into a coaching role.

regards


regards

 

[Buddha]

We can't and shouldn't be slashing Carra's wage in half just because he's had poor season (by his standards) of late. He is still of high-standing in our current side and his wage should reflect that.

However, it'd be foolish to offer him another mega-deal for anything more than 2 years with a extension clause at a lower rate when he'll likely be playing less regularly. By the time he's 35 he'd surely be glad of 45k a week having been paid handsomely for his best years.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39193.msg1066972#msg1066972 date=1268212247]
[quote author=themn link=topic=39193.msg1066871#msg1066871 date=1268184593]
Actually, when you think of how long he's played for us, it could be anyone from a very long list.

Doesn't have to be someone from the present squad.
[/quote]

Exactly, I think he was generalising, witch-hunt over.

As to Carra's contract.
I agree with Squiggs to a certain extent, it would be madness to lash long term £90k a week contracts around to people nearing the end of their career, if they were not going to earn it, they didn't do it with Sami, and they aren't going to with Carra
He has been, indeed still is, a great servant and of course that should be recognised.
Perhaps a two year contract, on whatever the wage might be, leading to a two year contract on a reduced wage leading into a coaching role.

regards


regards
[/quote]

this is exactly what should happen. I think even carra realises this is his last big contract.

 

[mark1975]

I think Carra has a right to be miffed. That said, I think if you asked him to take a pay cut for the good of the club or whatever, he wouldn't particularly be fucked off at that, he'd be fucked off that others in the squad (and in the past) have picked up a health wedge while not really deserving it.

 

[spider-Neil]

that latest tomkins article was pretty spot on. I agreed with absolutely every word of if but I'm sure all the people who want rafa out will say tomkins is talking rubbish.

 

[Modo]

Rafa is a daft cunt. How can he be stalling when its Carra.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39193.msg1067001#msg1067001 date=1268217021]
I think Carra has a right to be miffed. That said, I think if you asked him to take a pay cut for the good of the club or whatever, he wouldn't particularly be fucked off at that, he'd be fucked off that others in the squad (and in the past) have picked up a health wedge while not really deserving it.
[/quote]

If Jamie Carragher was on a huge contract and felt that he wasn't deserving it (ie hardly ever playing and sitting on the bench all the time) he would leave.