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How do you beat Spain?

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LeTallecWiz

Doos
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Well ... is it possible to beat them if they're on their game (be it the 4-6-0 or 4-5-1)?

While I look forward to seeing what Ryan, Mark, Pesam etc think, I think a combination - if you have the right personnel - of what Italy (1st game) & Portugal did is the way to go. Italy's formation & Portugal's tactics and I think teams can compete with them far better.
 
The formation's largely irrelevent to be honest. Although I do think a 3-5-2 is your best bet.

It's how you press them and how you find space against them mostly. Easier said.

I'd be wanting to exploit the space behind the full-backs. You could see Balotelli and Cassano trying to pull into the hole Arbeloa was leaving when he went forward, but they didn't move it into those spaces quickly enough. You want to get them turned, and attack the likes of Pique at pace. Tat's how you score against them though, the other bit is how you defend...

I felt Italy afforded them the space in the hole. Pirlo's great in that position on the ball, but he does fuck all the other way and you could see Iniesta coming infield into that gap all night long. You need a Busquets in your side against them really.

A few keys:
- Score first. I'd gamble and go at them like fuck for 20 minutes. If they score first, you've no hope.
- Get pace out wide
- Work on set-pieces against them.
- Play 3 in the middle every single time.
 
Ignore the midfield, play 4-2-4. Punt it over midfield every time you get the ball. In fact play 6-0-4. Spain play without a striker, you play them without a midfield.

It's crazy enough that it might just work.
 
I think Italy probably had the game plan to test Spain, as Ryan says, attacking the FB positions as they did so very effectively against Germany. Unfortunately they looked tired (Spain never look tired) and because the Spanish never gave Pirlo a moment's peice, they didn't have the supply.
 
Italy made two mistakes last night I think --

a) Cheillini - he's never be the paciest, and he's a great CB, but against non-stop movement, he was bound to struggle. He also rarely attacks, thus allowing Ebola more room to push forward.
b) They played them really well in the first game on the back of the 3-5-2. That worked for them ... Why change it?
 
Portugal had the right idea, they matched Spain up with a fluid midfield who all had the dual role of augmenting the attack but also tracking all Spain's midfield - this mean that the team to beat Spain has to be quite young, energetic/fit enough to get around the pitch.

Also, defend on the edge of your own box (again, like Portugal did) because Spain rarely shoot from long distance, don't have a target man to cross too and by playing deep it makes it very difficult for Spain to get in behind.

Really the only thing Portugal were missing was a top striker.

The other hope would be that Iniesta doesn't play because for me he's the most important cog in the Spanish midfield, they have the players to replace Xavi, Alonso, Fabregas etc when they pick up injuries or need to be rested but Iniesta offers them something different and without him a key component of their attacking intent disappears.
 
Dixon did quite a good analysis of the Spain team the other day. Spain hunt in packs, and press very high up the pitch, so if you can get through their first line of defence, be it with a cute passing triangle, or a skilful manoeuvre, then you can get at their back line. You have to be able to turn defence into attack quickly though, which means committing men forward. It's risky, because if it breaks down, they can punish you. But then, they're the best team in the world, so there's really no safe way to play them.
 
You need to close down Iniesta and Alonso. Don't give them any space. Every team (maybe with the exception of Portugal) have failed to do this. If you look at the way Spain closed Pirlo down at every opportunity last night, that will give you a perfect example of what must be done. Alonso and Iniesta should be considered as "primary" targets. Then I'd go for Xavi.
 
I bet you rafa could get a good team to at least match Spain.

He should so be an international manager.

It wouldn't be pretty but fuck me he knows how to get teams through tournament football by adapting to each opponent & nullifying their strengths.
 
Decent thread.

I also agreed with Dixon's analysis; you have to get the ball out from defense as quickly as possible and really make it count when you do. Portugal were the team who best matched them throughout the tournament.

This Spain team could go on to win another two international tournaments with ease, and I wouldn't bet against their replacements being any worse. It is a side that will be talked about in 50 years time.
 
I wouldn't know how to be honest. You can try to pick holes in it, playing a sweeper, putting someone permanently infront of the back four but there's so much strength, clever movement and depth with them, you can't pick out single players or parts of the system and hope that by stopping that you stop them, it doesn't work like that, it can't work like that because they tend to walk all over practically everyone. I don't think you can open up against them, I think that's suicide, the best bet I suppose would be to compress the space around the back four to limit the movement and space for them to play into, despite their ability to play the ball through the eye of a needle. Pepe would actually be a good keeper against them as he's a sound sweeper, that negates the need for you to employ and third centre half who gets everything that drops in behind. A keeper that's quick off his line and a defensive midfieder or two infront, creating a diamond formation at the back, and two full backs who tuck in to create a narrow back four. They have the ability to get in behind which then becomes a worry, but in the percentage game they're more threatening through the centre and getting in behind with a through pass, rather than going around the defense with an orphodox wide player. Either way though, it's a tough call. They scored last night through Silva with a bit of wide play.

And that's just about them. How do you keep the ball long enough to be a threat regularly enough to get enough goals to put the pressure on them? You simply don't. I do think they've got vulnerabilities at the back but it's holding possession long enough to exploit those weaknesses. They keep the ball to take the pressure off and their best form of defense is attack. As said, you have to get at them quickly and make sure what chances you do get you take, which is a big ask.
 
You need a drogba

That would definitely help.

Failing that, a very quick striker who can turn a defender & finish (imagine Owen in his prime) could get in behind them, but you need an on form midfielder to provide the incisive pass with very little time to do it. Stevie could possibly do it now, 4 years ago he'd have provided 3 or 4 of those even against this Spain side.
 
That would definitely help.

Failing that, a very quick striker who can turn a defender & finish (imagine Owen in his prime) could get in behind them, but you need an on form midfielder to provide the incisive pass with very little time to do it. Stevie could possibly do it now, 4 years ago he'd have provided 3 or 4 of those even against this Spain side.

True the Stevie/Torres combo of a few years ago could cause them problems.

Aided by alonso/masher
 
True the Stevie/Torres combo of a few years ago could cause them problems.

Aided by alonso/masher

Well Torres plays for Spain so if he suddenly turned round and started playing for the opposition then it really would cause them problems. Until he got substituted.
 
As said, Portugal did it best. They played very well in the first half. Real Madrid play the same way against Barca, but they have more quality to make it work (and they've struggled as well).

You basically need to defend it numbers, hunt in packs and compress space as much as possible in the middle. Pull your full backs in and give Spain the flanks. They're not going to cross it in and if they do the defence should have the advantage. Real problems start to occur when Spain get space inbetween the lines and between the fullbacks and the centre-backs. Spain exploited that time and again last night against Italy. Abate and his counter-part weren't close enough to their CBs.

The main thing you need however, is luck. I think if Spain are genuinely on their A game they're probably not going to be beaten regardless of tactics. It's like Barca against Chelsea in the CL. They had enough chances, a pen etc. and didn't win the game. They should've done several times over as they were easily the better team but they lost. You need luck.
 
Ignore the midfield, play 4-2-4. Punt it over midfield every time you get the ball. In fact play 6-0-4. Spain play without a striker, you play them without a midfield.

It's crazy enough that it might just work.
very intriguing post - i would LOVE to see a decent team play this formation. this is what makes football so exciting, the possibility for a formation to be created where hitherto everyone thought they had seen it all.
 
very intriguing post - i would LOVE to see a decent team play this formation. this is what makes football so exciting, the possibility for a formation to be created where hitherto everyone thought they had seen it all.
It worked for us.
Jack%20Charlton.jpg
 
I guess the same way Rafa got LFC to beat Barcalona 2-1 at their stadium (Riise - Belamy Golf incident)

Seriously - its not possible there are some crucial facts your all forgetting in all of this - nearly all the top European sides that played in this tournament are a work in progress except the Spain side, so yes they had a great tournament and all but one also has to look at the state of the opposition - I am sure you all remember when we gave Real Madrid a good beating at Anfield a few seasons ago.

I think Italy had the right idea yesterday, but we will never know for sure what the game would have been like had they not had to play with 10 men for the last half-hour. They created chances and forced Casilas to make a few saves with a higher possession rate in the first half. In my view they were on top of them in the 2nd half before they were reduced to 10 men. The way to beat them is to do it like Italy played them - but if you additionally have players that can run and take on their defenders you have a better chance of winning. If we look back at this tournament the games they were holding back a little more than usual were the games against Portugal, and France - why ? - mainly becasue they have accomplished ball players on the wings who can really f*ck you up if you push too forward i.e. Ronaldo, Nani, and Ribery. Once can aslo look back to the Croatia game - that was a nasty game for them, and I remember Croatia had a lot of the ball created some clear chances - why ? - because they are just as comfortable on the ball as Spain and can pass it and they have a dangerous player in Modrick. My prediction is - that they will come undone when they face a team who are/have:

1) comfortable in possession and pass at pace
2) Have 2 players at least who are creative and take on the opposition in the midfield area.
3) Have a forward who is trully world class and can beat defenders to get to the goal like Torres at his best, Ronaldo, and really tricky f*ckers like our Suarez.

Thats all you need.
 
Spain 20-1 to carry on winning tournaments until the 2018 world cup

They're fucking shite odds considering 2014 is in Brazil, & that the German side we saw perform so well until they went out is relatively young now & will be 2 years older.
 
They're fucking shite odds considering 2014 is in Brazil, & that the German side we saw perform so well until they went out is relatively young now & will be 2 years older.

Which cheeky cunts are offering that price? That works out at under 2/1 for each of the next 3 tournaments! The lowest price I can remember for a favourite at a world cup was about 4/1. I wouldn't back Spain for that treble at anything under 100/1.
 
If Brazil & Argentina have good run up games they could be out to 8 or higher for 2014 alone. That 20/1 is fucking nonsense.
 
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