How badly we need another striker

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=39535.msg1077888#msg1077888 date=1269850698]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1077857#msg1077857 date=1269844875]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39535.msg1077829#msg1077829 date=1269831630]
How many have Kuyt and Gerrard got?
[/quote]

kuyt - 9 league goals
gerrard - 6 league goals

gerrard's injuries and loss of form have hit us hard.
[/quote]


so if kuyt's got 9 goals then we do, in actual fact, have 2 players on that top scorers list, don't we?

still, not disputing that we need more goalscorers - malouda with 11 stands out as the sort of contribution we could do with from the left, although not sure how often he's played more centrally this season.
[/quote]

Interesting how Dreamy doesn't put Kuyt on there but puts others on it who have 9 league goals...but the point about us needing more people bearing the goalscoring load is valid. I just wish that people wouldn't distort things to make their point more valid.

 

[Boozer]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39535.msg1078117#msg1078117 date=1269877860]
Welcome to the site KingJulian. As for Jovanovic - the deal hasn't been finalised according to the NOTW.

http://www.imscouting.com/global-news-article/Liverpool-deal-for-Milan-Jovanovic-in-doubt/6762/


[/quote]

It makes you wonder when the quote was from, as the rest of the English press haven't run the story.

 

[Squiggles]

I doubt there's one person in England who is arsed either way.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39535.msg1078124#msg1078124 date=1269879361]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=39535.msg1077888#msg1077888 date=1269850698]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1077857#msg1077857 date=1269844875]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39535.msg1077829#msg1077829 date=1269831630]
How many have Kuyt and Gerrard got?
[/quote]

kuyt - 9 league goals
gerrard - 6 league goals

gerrard's injuries and loss of form have hit us hard.
[/quote]


so if kuyt's got 9 goals then we do, in actual fact, have 2 players on that top scorers list, don't we?

still, not disputing that we need more goalscorers - malouda with 11 stands out as the sort of contribution we could do with from the left, although not sure how often he's played more centrally this season.
[/quote]

Interesting how Dreamy doesn't put Kuyt on there but puts others on it who have 9 league goals...but the point about us needing more people bearing the goalscoring load is valid. I just wish that people wouldn't distort things to make their point more valid.


[/quote]

to be fair it probably wasn't deliberate because the list will be in alphabetical order (arshavin, cole etc) and kuyt will have been omitted accordingly.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39535.msg1078124#msg1078124 date=1269879361]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=39535.msg1077888#msg1077888 date=1269850698]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1077857#msg1077857 date=1269844875]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39535.msg1077829#msg1077829 date=1269831630]
How many have Kuyt and Gerrard got?
[/quote]

kuyt - 9 league goals
gerrard - 6 league goals

gerrard's injuries and loss of form have hit us hard.
[/quote]


so if kuyt's got 9 goals then we do, in actual fact, have 2 players on that top scorers list, don't we?

still, not disputing that we need more goalscorers - malouda with 11 stands out as the sort of contribution we could do with from the left, although not sure how often he's played more centrally this season.
[/quote]

Interesting how Dreamy doesn't put Kuyt on there but puts others on it who have 9 league goals...but the point about us needing more people bearing the goalscoring load is valid. I just wish that people wouldn't distort things to make their point more valid.


[/quote]

Cut and paste from the bbc.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=39535.msg1077913#msg1077913 date=1269853653]
Regardless of tactical considerations we need another quality striker simply because Torres is injury prone. Darren Bent would fit the bill if we could afford it.
[/quote]

No he wouldn't.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39535.msg1078278#msg1078278 date=1269903328]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=39535.msg1077913#msg1077913 date=1269853653]
Regardless of tactical considerations we need another quality striker simply because Torres is injury prone. Darren Bent would fit the bill if we could afford it.
[/quote]

No he wouldn't.
[/quote]

His goal tally is pretty impressive. What am I missing?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39535.msg1078278#msg1078278 date=1269903328]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=39535.msg1077913#msg1077913 date=1269853653]
Regardless of tactical considerations we need another quality striker simply because Torres is injury prone. Darren Bent would fit the bill if we could afford it.
[/quote]

No he wouldn't.
[/quote]

what's wrong with darren bent? I'd be over the fucking moon if we signed him.

 

[doctor_mac]

The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.

 

[jexykrodic]

I thought we were talking about a back-up for Torres.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know, pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will have to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thing, not whether torres wins the golden boot.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=39535.msg1078357#msg1078357 date=1269933009]
I thought we were talking about a back-up for Torres.
[/quote]

The thing is, we know a back up player of the standard a club like LFC needs isn't going to be content to be back up. We need a player who can play another position to a very high standard (without them feeling their talents are being wasted) and for them to slip into Torres' boots when he's injured.

That isn't an easy remit by any stretch. I think a lot of us used to have dreams that Babel might be that man.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]

the pity is we don't have a chance of landing villa.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078405#msg1078405 date=1269941680]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?
[/quote]I don't think we can't afford both. The investment is said to include 25m for players.
Riera - 7m
Babel - 13m
=
45m

If Pacheco isn't ready/good enough then how about Saviola he'd only cost 10 to 15m and then Mata for 20m. That still leaves a bit left over for a compotent left back.
Or how about your favourite Joe Cole? Or that Jovetic lad from Fiorentina, he was awesome.
Anyway, I really think were making this seem a more monumental task than it is.
The key to our success is of course realising sooner when players aren't good enough. Both Lucas and Insua need removing from the starting 11. Wether that means Aquilani in the middle or Gerrard or both I don't know. If Kuyt is playing poorly he MUST be dropped same with everyone. I think the playing the same 11 and hoping it would get better has killed us this year. We aren't a terrible team, we have most of the tools to compete, but we do need that spark of creativity and a better option at LB other than that we just need to go out with a better and more aggressive attitude.
We'll see I guess.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078416#msg1078416 date=1269942530]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078405#msg1078405 date=1269941680]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?
[/quote]I don't think we can't afford both. The investment is said to include 25m for players.
Riera - 7m
Babel - 13m
=
45m

If Pacheco isn't ready/good enough then how about Saviola he'd only cost 10 to 15m and then Mata for 20m. That still leaves a bit left over for a compotent left back.
Or how about your favourite Joe Cole? Or that Jovetic lad from Fiorentina, he was awesome.
Anyway, I really think were making this seem a more monumental task than it is.
The key to our success is of course realising sooner when players aren't good enough. Both Lucas and Insua need removing from the starting 11. Wether that means Aquilani in the middle or Gerrard or both I don't know. If Kuyt is playing poorly he MUST be dropped same with everyone. I think the playing the same 11 and hoping it would get better has killed us this year. We aren't a terrible team, we have most of the tools to compete, but we do need that spark of creativity and a better option at LB other than that we just need to go out with a better and more aggressive attitude.
We'll see I guess.
[/quote]

7 mil for riera?
13 mil for babel?
who ever said you weren't an optimist was well wide of the mark.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078418#msg1078418 date=1269942718]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078416#msg1078416 date=1269942530]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078405#msg1078405 date=1269941680]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?
[/quote]I don't think we can't afford both. The investment is said to include 25m for players.
Riera - 7m
Babel - 13m
=
45m

If Pacheco isn't ready/good enough then how about Saviola he'd only cost 10 to 15m and then Mata for 20m. That still leaves a bit left over for a compotent left back.
Or how about your favourite Joe Cole? Or that Jovetic lad from Fiorentina, he was awesome.
Anyway, I really think were making this seem a more monumental task than it is.
The key to our success is of course realising sooner when players aren't good enough. Both Lucas and Insua need removing from the starting 11. Wether that means Aquilani in the middle or Gerrard or both I don't know. If Kuyt is playing poorly he MUST be dropped same with everyone. I think the playing the same 11 and hoping it would get better has killed us this year. We aren't a terrible team, we have most of the tools to compete, but we do need that spark of creativity and a better option at LB other than that we just need to go out with a better and more aggressive attitude.
We'll see I guess.
[/quote]

7 mil for riera?
13 mil for babel?
who ever said you weren't an optimist was well wide of the mark.
[/quote]What? We paid 8m for Riera who has since become a Spanish International. The rumour was CSKA were offering a year loan with a 6.5m option to buy, it's hardly a massive leap to suggest 500k more if more than 1 countries transfer window was open.
Babel was subject to a rejected 15m bid from Birmingham in January since when he has forced his way back into first team contention with a real chance of going to the world cup. How is 2m less than was already on offer optimistic?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078421#msg1078421 date=1269943009]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078418#msg1078418 date=1269942718]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078416#msg1078416 date=1269942530]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078405#msg1078405 date=1269941680]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?
[/quote]I don't think we can't afford both. The investment is said to include 25m for players.
Riera - 7m
Babel - 13m
=
45m

If Pacheco isn't ready/good enough then how about Saviola he'd only cost 10 to 15m and then Mata for 20m. That still leaves a bit left over for a compotent left back.
Or how about your favourite Joe Cole? Or that Jovetic lad from Fiorentina, he was awesome.
Anyway, I really think were making this seem a more monumental task than it is.
The key to our success is of course realising sooner when players aren't good enough. Both Lucas and Insua need removing from the starting 11. Wether that means Aquilani in the middle or Gerrard or both I don't know. If Kuyt is playing poorly he MUST be dropped same with everyone. I think the playing the same 11 and hoping it would get better has killed us this year. We aren't a terrible team, we have most of the tools to compete, but we do need that spark of creativity and a better option at LB other than that we just need to go out with a better and more aggressive attitude.
We'll see I guess.
[/quote]

7 mil for riera?
13 mil for babel?
who ever said you weren't an optimist was well wide of the mark.
[/quote]What? We paid 8m for Riera who has since become a Spanish International. The rumour was CSKA were offering a year loan with a 6.5m option to buy, it's hardly a massive leap to suggest 500k more if more than 1 countries transfer window was open.
Babel was subject to a rejected 15m bid from Birmingham in January since when he has forced his way back into first team contention with a real chance of going to the world cup. How is 2m less than was already on offer optimistic?

[/quote]

teams know we are desparate to get rid of riera and I thought the bid for babel was 8m

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078422#msg1078422 date=1269943138]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078421#msg1078421 date=1269943009]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078418#msg1078418 date=1269942718]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078416#msg1078416 date=1269942530]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078405#msg1078405 date=1269941680]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078375#msg1078375 date=1269937064]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078368#msg1078368 date=1269936198]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078359#msg1078359 date=1269933352]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39535.msg1078356#msg1078356 date=1269932686]
The fact that Torres did not score a single goal in the entire WC qualifying campaign for Spain tells us that he doesn't do his best work supporting another striker.


[/quote]

that isn't really the point is it? say for example, we bought david villa (I know pipe dream) you will have two strikers capable of being devestating on their day so the opposition will hand to contend with two genuine threats rather than one which would make us a less predictable, more deadly team. torres' goal return would decrease but I suspect our win ratio would increase and at the end of the day that's the most important thank, not whether torres wins the golden boot.
[/quote]

I don't disagree TBF.
[/quote]Me neither, two strikers scoring 15 to 20 a season is better than one scoring 30 for so many reasons.
We need another centre forward. Even if torres didn't have injury worries we would, but we need to use them. Bent isn't a good fit because he can't play the 'rooney' role of link player. We need a Sheringham, Bergkamp type who can play support but do a job up front during Torres injury periods. Tevez really would have been perfect last year.
If we only had a budget of say 15m to buy this player it would be really tough, but it could be done, it must be done really.
[/quote]

I would go for bent for the following reasons

a) he scores goals, I know I know but has to be a kep factor surely?
b) he scores in teams that mainly plays on the counter attack (don't have to explain that one)
c) he's english and that will be a factor sooner rather than later
d) he is perfect to take up the full load if (rather WHEN) torres gets injuried)

he is an out and out striker and torres and bent would have to learn to play with each other (fnar fnar) but as I said before two goal threats is better than one. besides that name some good forwards who play in the bergkemp role, that scores goals and is within our price range.

alternatively rafa could pour his budget into the best wide player he can lay his hands on, say ribery, play torres and gerrard as they are and pray for an injury free season.
if rhone does indeed front that 25m (plus our sales) I see that buying ONE world class player so which position is more important; left midfielder or CF?
[/quote]I don't think we can't afford both. The investment is said to include 25m for players.
Riera - 7m
Babel - 13m
=
45m

If Pacheco isn't ready/good enough then how about Saviola he'd only cost 10 to 15m and then Mata for 20m. That still leaves a bit left over for a compotent left back.
Or how about your favourite Joe Cole? Or that Jovetic lad from Fiorentina, he was awesome.
Anyway, I really think were making this seem a more monumental task than it is.
The key to our success is of course realising sooner when players aren't good enough. Both Lucas and Insua need removing from the starting 11. Wether that means Aquilani in the middle or Gerrard or both I don't know. If Kuyt is playing poorly he MUST be dropped same with everyone. I think the playing the same 11 and hoping it would get better has killed us this year. We aren't a terrible team, we have most of the tools to compete, but we do need that spark of creativity and a better option at LB other than that we just need to go out with a better and more aggressive attitude.
We'll see I guess.
[/quote]

7 mil for riera?
13 mil for babel?
who ever said you weren't an optimist was well wide of the mark.
[/quote]What? We paid 8m for Riera who has since become a Spanish International. The rumour was CSKA were offering a year loan with a 6.5m option to buy, it's hardly a massive leap to suggest 500k more if more than 1 countries transfer window was open.
Babel was subject to a rejected 15m bid from Birmingham in January since when he has forced his way back into first team contention with a real chance of going to the world cup. How is 2m less than was already on offer optimistic?

[/quote]

teams know we are desparate to get rid of riera and I thought the bid for babel was 8m
[/quote]We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.
And maybe you're right with Babel, I'm shit at remembering fees.
Regardless I think 20m from player sales is reasonable.

 

[manwithnoname]

We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.

Yes we are. Yes we will. He'll go out on loan if we can't get a fee.

And there's several obvious precedents with us booting players out post-haste, and losing cash on them: Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, Dossena, Morientes.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39535.msg1077971#msg1077971 date=1269860032]
[quote author=El Nino link=topic=39535.msg1077830#msg1077830 date=1269832004]
Torres is at his best when playing up front on his own.
[/quote]

Based on? He's always looked ok alongside Villa, the only thing is Torres needs to lead the line.
[/quote]

That's a bit of a contradiction Fallon, when he plays with Villa he doesn't lead the line!

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078433#msg1078433 date=1269943718]

We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.

Yes we are. Yes we will. He'll go out on loan if we can't get a fee.

And there's several obvious precedents with us booting players out post-haste, and losing cash on them: Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, Dossena, Morientes.


[/quote]Non of those players sold for less than they were worth.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078437#msg1078437 date=1269943822]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078433#msg1078433 date=1269943718]

We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.

Yes we are. Yes we will. He'll go out on loan if we can't get a fee.

And there's several obvious precedents with us booting players out post-haste, and losing cash on them: Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, Dossena, Morientes.


[/quote]Non of those players sold for less than they were worth.
[/quote]

Moot point. We perhaps bought them for more than they were worth, and sold them at a loss.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39535.msg1078436#msg1078436 date=1269943793]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39535.msg1077971#msg1077971 date=1269860032]
[quote author=El Nino link=topic=39535.msg1077830#msg1077830 date=1269832004]
Torres is at his best when playing up front on his own.
[/quote]

Based on? He's always looked ok alongside Villa, the only thing is Torres needs to lead the line.
[/quote]

That's a bit of a contradiction Fallon, when he plays with Villa he doesn't lead the line!
[/quote]

after watching torres for AM and spain I actually thought torres was going to be a forward when rafa bought him. say what you want about rafa but he turned him into the most deadly striker in world forward.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39535.msg1078440#msg1078440 date=1269944133]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39535.msg1078436#msg1078436 date=1269943793]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39535.msg1077971#msg1077971 date=1269860032]
[quote author=El Nino link=topic=39535.msg1077830#msg1077830 date=1269832004]
Torres is at his best when playing up front on his own.
[/quote]

Based on? He's always looked ok alongside Villa, the only thing is Torres needs to lead the line.
[/quote]

That's a bit of a contradiction Fallon, when he plays with Villa he doesn't lead the line!
[/quote]

after watching torres for AM and spain I actually thought torres was going to be a forward when rafa bought him. say what you want about rafa but he turned him into the most deadly striker in world forward.
[/quote]

I don't think you were alone on that one either, when I first saw in play for Spain he reminded me of Rooney in the role he played.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078438#msg1078438 date=1269943934]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078437#msg1078437 date=1269943822]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078433#msg1078433 date=1269943718]

We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.

Yes we are. Yes we will. He'll go out on loan if we can't get a fee.

And there's several obvious precedents with us booting players out post-haste, and losing cash on them: Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, Dossena, Morientes.


[/quote]Non of those players sold for less than they were worth.
[/quote]

Moot point. We perhaps bought them for more than they were worth, and sold them at a loss.


[/quote]Oh we definately overpaid for them. I just don't see how that makes any difference. We sold them all for what they were worth. We lost money because they were devalued during their time here. Riera isn't the same. He hasn't got worse as a player. He has improved his standing from being loanee at Manchester City under Stuart pearce to championship winner with Spain.
I'm sure we'll get rid, I just don't think we'll get bent over.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078443#msg1078443 date=1269944378]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078438#msg1078438 date=1269943934]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39535.msg1078437#msg1078437 date=1269943822]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39535.msg1078433#msg1078433 date=1269943718]

We aren't 'desperate' to get rid of him. We aren't going to throw money we don't have away just to save face.

Yes we are. Yes we will. He'll go out on loan if we can't get a fee.

And there's several obvious precedents with us booting players out post-haste, and losing cash on them: Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, Dossena, Morientes.


[/quote]Non of those players sold for less than they were worth.
[/quote]

Moot point. We perhaps bought them for more than they were worth, and sold them at a loss.


[/quote]Oh we definately overpaid for them. I just don't see how that makes any difference. We sold them all for what they were worth. We lost money because they were devalued during their time here. Riera isn't the same. He hasn't got worse as a player. He has improved his standing from being loanee at Manchester City under Stuart pearce to championship winner with Spain.
I'm sure we'll get rid, I just don't think we'll get bent over.
[/quote]

I will be gobsmacked if we get more than 7m for riera, it wont happen. the only way it 'could' have happened is if he made the spain squad and had blinding world cup but he wont make the squad so that's that.

 

[The Slugmonster]

Riera didnt win the euro championship with Spain. He wasnt in the squad!