Hodgson v Dalglish

[amber cabs]

[quote author=localny link=topic=48696.msg1483386#msg1483386 date=1329388955]
Kenny clearly favors brittish over foreign. Looking at how we shipped raul and alberto so easily yet sign inferior british Players is a real stain
[/quote]

So you're saying Kenny is a racist?

 

[OLD_Lewy]

i dont see whats wrong with the original post here, its a fair point. im probably in the 'we should have kept rafa' club, and i think we'd be doing a lot better now with him, but thats a different argument. its funny though, people saying that its absurd thinking about getting rid of kenny because he needs more time certainly wernt saying it about hodgson. generally though i think there are a few differences that make people more willing to stand by kenny, we are capable of playing more attractive football, how often we do that is another question, although both managers arnt particularly great in the media at least kenny makes a mess of things whilst trying to stand by the club and its players, unlike hodgson with the whole man u torres issue. and then thers poulsen, i think that was enough to put people off really

 

[Squiggles]

We're slightly better off than we were last season, but I worry Dalglish has done more long-term damage to the club than Hodgson ever did.

 

[Judge Jules]

Whatever one's views of the right and wrongs of the Suarez saga, IMO that's grotesquely over the top.

 

[Molbystwin]

It is over the top.

However ill judged in hindsight Kennys actions were they were certainly not done with anything other than the best intentions.

Hodgson was a man who thought he had earned his shot at managing Liverpool as if it were an entitlement for all his succesful face rubbing lispery up to that point, he had no connection with the club nor sentiment toward it and did not understand its significance.

He wanted to graft the "Hodgson way" onto our club.

Kenny is as different to Hodgson as wine is to piss.

I have been upset with the ridiculous Suarez debacle, dismayed with SO much money wasted on gamble who have not as yet come off bit all that aside Kenny represents so much of what is great about our club for the thread to be even posted is out of order.

I hope we can get to that fourth spot and that given time the expensive dross will come good and the stink from the Suarez incident will waft away.

 

[Gary25]

Win the FA Cup or not, i'll be gutted if Kenny is manager at the beginning of next season. It's just not working out and i've seen nothing to suggest our fortunes will change with Kenny at the helm next season.

Hypothetically speaking, if we were to spend vasts amount of money again, firstly i wouldn't trust Kenny's judgment of bringing in the right quality of player and secondly, even if they were top players, i wouldn't back Kenny to get the best out of them. mainly because Kenny's tactics and man management style has been dire all season long
- He has players out of position, he drops players just when they're showing a bit of promise, he plays some when they're woefully short of confidence and/or form.

The likes of Pardew, O'Neill and Redknapp wouldn't be master tacticians(unlike Rafa or Mourinho for example) but they know how to motivate a team, they know what systems works and they know how to get the best out of every one of their players. Kenny is neither a master tactician or a good man manager/motivator. In fact, i struggle to see what good he has to offer us at all, as a Manager.

I don't get this he deserves another season bullshit. He's been a total failure and we could write a book about his monumental fuck ups this season. How can we risk another season with Kenny in charge? It'll be another season wasted and set us back even further.

 

[gkmacca]

It's interesting that Hodgson's outburst against that hapless Norwegian hack was, as far as I'm aware, completely ignored by the British press, outside of the Echo, when it happened, but now that some are anxious about 'Arry not getting the England job the likes of Martin Samuel has suddenly remembered it:

After that Everton game, a tetchy and perversely positive appraisal of his team — bar Fernando Torres — ended in a tense exchange with a Scandinavian journalist.

Hodgson was asked about the poor service to the forwards, Torres especially.

‘Are you from Denmark?’ he snapped. ‘Norway,’ replied the visitor. ‘Ah, two countries I never want to work in again,’ Hodgson said, before exiting.

His inquisitor was too polite to go with the obvious rejoinder, but there cannot have been a single person in the room who did not think it. Later, it was explained that having managed FC Copenhagen, Hodgson considers the Danish press too negative. As opposed to Wembley on a wet Wednesday, 2-0 down to Croatia, which is often mistaken for a fortnight in Acapulco.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2117891/Martin-Samuel-England-job-far-Roy-Hodgson.html#ixzz1qEJZ70GNhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ngland-job-far-Roy-Hodgson.html#ixzz1qEJZ70GN

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ngland-job-far-Roy-Hodgson.html#ixzz1qEJZ70GN

Funny that.

I saw MOTD2 last night and there was The Hodge doing his usual shouting at the ground and kicking of water bottles as his team ran around completely clueless. I'm so relieved that flaccid tit is no longer here.

 

[gkmacca]

Kenny's tactics and man management style has been dire all season long
.

Of all things to criticise Kenny for, man management isn't one of them.

 

[spider-Neil]

Of all things to criticise Kenny for, man management isn't one of them.

absolutely, he is taking on all critisism of the team and defending them to the death even if it makes him look a foolish.

 

[Gary25]

Of all things to criticise Kenny for, man management isn't one of them.

I happen to think it is.

You look at Carroll, playing much better in recent months, yet he's been inexplicable dropped in the last few games when we've been crying out for someone to take the burden off Suarez. Carroll's been a donkey at times in a Liverpool shirt, and i've been as critical as anyone about his performances but how is the lad suppossed to come good when he's not starting games that everyone knows he should be?

Maxi, here's a player who was knocking in goals for fun at the back end of the last season, yet he rarely gets a sniff this season, not even in the squad in many of our games whilst he sits back and watches Henderson or Downing take his place and put in one inept performance after another. And even when he comes into the team, scores a goal, we dont' see him again for a few months - how the fuck are you going to see a confident, motivated player if that's how you treat him?

Shelvey, we let him go out on loan for a few months, which is fair enough. We then call him back, he plays one or two games(and does alright) but then he's left out in the cold ever since. Again, he sees the likes of Henderson and Adam struggle but he's still overlooked. Another, in a long list of decisions by Kenny that leaves you puzzled to say the least. Is the lad going to feel wanted and appreciated? No.

Over the course of a season, Kenny has shown he can't get his team motivated and disciplined for every game. The best of teams can have the odd 'off day' but we've had too many and Kenny can get his players fired up for the Mancs, for the Derby, for Chelsea away but when it comes to inferior opposition, we've shown time and time again we're weak mentally, and Kenny has to be held accountable for that.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Roy was never the answer but to suggest Kenny is performing better in the league is also a little bit silly. League form has been shocking this term

 

[Judge Jules]

That's OTT. Hodgson took us into the relegation zone at one stage. As much as we've underperformed at times under Kenny this season, we've done well against the top sides and found the time to pick up a trophy along the way. We're not where we should be, but we're closer to it than we ever got under Budgie.

 

[gkmacca]

I happen to think it is.

You look at Carroll, playing much better in recent months, yet he's been inexplicable dropped in the last few games when we've been crying out for someone to take the burden off Suarez. Carroll's been a donkey at times in a Liverpool shirt, and i've been as critical as anyone about his performances but how is the lad suppossed to come good when he's not starting games that everyone knows he should be?

Maxi, here's a player who was knocking in goals for fun at the back end of the last season, yet he rarely gets a sniff this season, not even in the squad in many of our games whilst he sits back and watches Henderson or Downing take his place and put in one inept performance after another. And even when he comes into the team, scores a goal, we dont' see him again for a few months - how the fuck are you going to see a confident, motivated player if that's how you treat him?

Shelvey, we let him go out on loan for a few months, which is fair enough. We then call him back, he plays one or two games(and does alright) but then he's left out in the cold ever since. Again, he sees the likes of Henderson and Adam struggle but he's still overlooked. Another, in a long list of decisions by Kenny that leaves you puzzled to say the least. Is the lad going to feel wanted and appreciated? No.

Over the course of a season, Kenny has shown he can't get his team motivated and disciplined for every game. The best of teams can have the odd 'off day' but we've had too many and Kenny can get his players fired up for the Mancs, for the Derby, for Chelsea away but when it comes to inferior opposition, we've shown time and time again we're weak mentally, and Kenny has to be held accountable for that.

Most of those man management examples are based on presumptions about how they're treated. If you want to complain about how often they're used, fine, but with all due respect that's another issue. There are countless examples, provided by players themselves, about Kenny's man management skills.

 

[Y1]

That's OTT. Hodgson took us into the relegation zone at one stage. As much as we've underperformed at times under Kenny this season, we've done well against the top sides and found the time to pick up a trophy along the way. We're not where we should be, but we're closer to it than we ever got under Budgie.

I wonder the owners/admin takes turn to wind up the rest of us?

 

[gkmacca]

I'm still intrigued about Steve Clarke's invisibility these days in these discussions. Why are people so eager to speculate on what Kenny is doing but seemingly uninterested in what Steve Clarke's doing? It wasn't like that when Sammy Lee was assistant manager.

 

[Gary25]

Most of those man management examples are based on presumptions about how they're treated. If you want to complain about how often they're used, fine, but with all due respect that's another issue. There are countless examples, provided by players themselves, about Kenny's man management skills.

Presumptions? No, facts. So Maxi and Shelvey haven't been available then? I know Maxi was injured for a few games but other than that, he's been fully fit and available to play but Kenny hasn't used him anywhere near enough.
And Carroll has been on the subs bench in games he should really have started in so i don't know why you're using the word presumptions when that's evidently not the case.

 

[gkmacca]

Presumptions? No, facts. So Maxi and Shelvey haven't been available then? I know Maxi was injured for a few games but other than that, he's been fully fit and available to play but Kenny hasn't used him anywhere near enough.
And Carroll has been on the subs bench in games he should really have started in so i don't know why you're using the word presumptions when that's evidently not the case.

Well, let me be clearer: you don't know how Kenny is 'man managing' those players. You only know how often he is playing them. There IS a difference. For all you know, Maxi might be frustrated but fully understanding of the position and still very respectful of Kenny and committed to the team. As Bellamy clearly is. Man management is partly about the art of dealing with players' moods, needs, frustrations and ambitions. It isn't just about how often you pick them. So I really don't understand why you think your facts answer the question about man management, unless you think that the only thing man management consists of is picking players or dropping players.

 

[Gary25]

Isn't i

Well, let me be clearer: you don't know how Kenny is 'man managing' those players. You only know how often he is playing them. There IS a difference. For all you know, Maxi might be frustrated but fully understanding of the position and still very respectful of Kenny and committed to the team. As Bellamy clearly is. Man management is partly about the art of dealing with players' moods, needs, frustrations and ambitions. It isn't just about how often you pick them. So I really don't understand why you think your facts answer the question about man management, unless you think that the only thing man management consists of is picking players or dropping players.

Isn't Man Management related to keeping players happy, hungry, motivated etc? If so, i can't see how Maxi, Shelvey, Carroll won't feel de-motivated with the way in which Kenny has handled them this season.

Of course they're professional footballers and should be ready to play to their maximum when they get the chance regardless of the circumstances, but at the same time they'll probably think 'it doesn't matter how i play' i'll be dropped next game anyway/or left out of the squad altogether in Maxi's case. I just don't see how that's anything but poor man management.

I just feel he hasn't got the players up for enough games this season. Not just individuals, but as a team and that's all down to man management.

 

[gkmacca]

Isn't i


Isn't Man Management related to keeping players happy, hungry, motivated etc? If so, i can't see how Maxi, Shelvey, Carroll won't feel de-motivated with the way in which Kenny has handled them this season.

.

Well, as I said before, these are presumptions, not facts.

 

[Gary25]

Well, as I said before, these are presumptions, not facts.

Whatever. I genuinely don't think he gets the best out of his players. We'll agree to disagree on this one.

 

[gkmacca]

Whatever. I genuinely don't think he gets the best out of his players. We'll agree to disagree on this one.

I honestly don't know how you can't see that the phrase 'i can't see how Maxi, Shelvey, Carroll won't feel de-motivated' is a presumption and not a fact. But yes, I'm sure everyone else is bored of reading this.

 

[Gary25]

I honestly don't know how you can't see that the phrase 'i can't see how Maxi, Shelvey, Carroll won't feel de-motivated' is a presumption and not a fact. But yes, I'm sure everyone else is bored of reading this.

Might be a presumption, but it's not a groundbreaking statement to say you think players like Maxi, Shelvey and Carroll would feel de-motivated this season under Kenny's management.

At the same time, you can't really offer up a valid argument to prove his man management skills can't be questioned so yeah, we'll agree to disagree. Moving on...

 

[gkmacca]

Well, I did point to the huge amount of player and ex-player testimonies. That's not a presumption. But we've wasted ages whilst your insistence that you were dealing in 'facts' has slowly been downgraded to presumptions. So, moving on.

 

[Woland]

Saying that Ming would be doing a shitload better than Horrenderson is a presumption as well.

But like Gary saying those players must be a bit pissed off, it's obviously correct.

Most of what's posited here is presumption.

 

[Gary25]

Well, I did point to the huge amount of player and ex-player testimonies. That's not a presumption. But we've wasted ages whilst your insistence that you were dealing in 'facts' has slowly been downgraded to presumptions. So, moving on.

Yeah, and Hodgson received similar testimonies from people in the game and past players/managers.

Anyway, moving on...

 

[Gary25]

Saying that Ming would be doing a shitload better than Horrenderson is a presumption as well.

But like Gary saying those players must be a bit pissed off, it's obviously correct.

Most of what's posited here is presumption.

Spot on.

 

[Woland]

I don't think we should sack Kenny... but I am starting to think I only think that because I took too many Es as a kid.

 

[Judge Jules]

Yeah, and Hodgson received similar testimonies from people in the game and past players/managers.

Anyway, moving on...

Nowhere near as many, nor were any of them even from past Liverpool players, let alone current ones.

Anyway, moving on....

 

[Gary25]

Nowhere near as many, nor were any of them even from past Liverpool players, let alone current ones.

Anyway, moving on....

So it only counts if it's past Liverpool players saying it then?

Btw i think you'll find Hodgson got loads and loads of accolades in his time with Fulham when he kept them up when it looked like they were destined for relegation, and when he got them to the Europa Cup final.

 

[themn]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA !!!