Hmmmm... Frustrating

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38885.msg1053913#msg1053913 date=1265967908]
Fabregas isn't what one would typically call 'pacey'.. but he has a good burst of pace like all the Arsenal players (albeit at the lower end of the scale).. which means once he gets in behind you, you have to be lightning to catch up. (incidentally, it's only this season i've noticed that his pace really seems to have increased as well as his strength on the ball - previously I thought he had Lucas-like pace/strength)..

Fabregas Vs Tottenham

This goal typifies what i'm/Keni is saying. Ignoring the quality of the dribble/finish, Lucas could never do this as he's simply not quick enough to get away from players.. nor Kuyt.. nor N'Gog.. their acceleration away from players is dreadful, so even if they get in behind you, it's likely you'll catch them up.
[/quote]

that's not pace, that's more like determination.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38885.msg1053925#msg1053925 date=1265969834]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38885.msg1053913#msg1053913 date=1265967908]
Fabregas isn't what one would typically call 'pacey'.. but he has a good burst of pace like all the Arsenal players (albeit at the lower end of the scale).. which means once he gets in behind you, you have to be lightning to catch up. (incidentally, it's only this season i've noticed that his pace really seems to have increased as well as his strength on the ball - previously I thought he had Lucas-like pace/strength)..

Fabregas Vs Tottenham

This goal typifies what i'm/Keni is saying. Ignoring the quality of the dribble/finish, Lucas could never do this as he's simply not quick enough to get away from players.. nor Kuyt.. nor N'Gog.. their acceleration away from players is dreadful, so even if they get in behind you, it's likely you'll catch them up.
[/quote]

that's not pace, that's more like determination.

[/quote]
Sure it's not Cisse-like.. and he isn't sprinting past 2 or 3 players on pure speed.. but it's what I AM talking about.. not being a flat out athlete, but having enough pace to stay ahead of defenders. The vid is an example of a burst of pace over a short distance (when he touches it past King he's still quick enough to get to the ball before the covering defender and get away a shot).

This is something N'Gog couldn't do the other night when he through on goal (even though one could argue over 100m he'd be 'quicker' than Fabregas due to greater stride length). On the pitch, only pace over 20-30m really matters, which is why Babel rarely gets to stretch his legs and show us his pace.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.

 

[Squiggles]

With our marking at set-pieces, there's not much point in having *anyone* in the box, 'cept maybe Reina.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053968#msg1053968 date=1265975599]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.
[/quote]

the bottom line is the fullbacks don't believe in their ability to push up to help the attack and still have the pace to get back (without getting caught upfield) if the movie breaks down.
glen johnson is the type of fullback I've been going on about but he cost 18 mil so its unlikely we'll see his like on the left hand side anytime soon. instead we have to put up with insua (who is fucking WANK) who neither attacks nor defends competely.

degan gets up the pitch but his lack of ability is painful. it was funny (in a painful kind of way) when gerrard mad an absolute PUNCH of a cross field pass, the ball arrives at degan's feet who is in acres of space and he miscontrols the ball, the camera then cuts to gerrard who (I think) looks to the heavens. ha ha...*cries*

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053968#msg1053968 date=1265975599]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.
[/quote]

Something like this?

Liverpool Vs Tottenham(Steven Gerrard's goal)

 

[Squiggles]

v[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38885.msg1053974#msg1053974 date=1265975970]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053968#msg1053968 date=1265975599]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.
[/quote]

the bottom line is the fullbacks don't believe in their ability to push up to help the attack and still have the pace to get back (without getting caught upfield) if the movie breaks down.
glen johnson is the type of fullback I've been going on about but he cost 18 mil so its unlikely we'll see his like on the left hand side anytime soon. instead we have to put up with insua (who is fucking WANK) who neither attacks nor defends competely.

degan gets up the pitch but his lack of ability is painful. it was funny (in a painful kind of way) when gerrard mad an absolute PUNCH of a cross field pass, the ball arrives at degan's feet who is in acres of space and he miscontrols the ball, the camera then cuts to gerrard who (I think) looks to the heavens. ha ha...*cries*
[/quote]

That's balls mate. Insua pushes up all the time to support the attack. It's his first instinct, and sometimes he's not too bad at it.
it. The problems are his fucking awful positioning and his lack of pace to rectify the situation. Qualities which any defender worth their salt should have.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38885.msg1053974#msg1053974 date=1265975970]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053968#msg1053968 date=1265975599]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.
[/quote]

the bottom line is the fullbacks don't believe in their ability to push up to help the attack and still have the pace to get back (without getting caught upfield) if the movie breaks down.
glen johnson is the type of fullback I've been going on about but he cost 18 mil so its unlikely we'll see his like on the left hand side anytime soon. instead we have to put up with insua (who is fucking WANK) who neither attacks nor defends competely.

degan gets up the pitch but his lack of ability is painful. it was funny (in a painful kind of way) when gerrard mad an absolute PUNCH of a cross field pass, the ball arrives at degan's feet who is in acres of space and he miscontrols the ball, the camera then cuts to gerrard who (I think) looks to the heavens. ha ha...*cries*
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but Johnson is a pretty shit defender, regardless of his ability to 'get back', his positioning and general defensive play leaves alot to be desired. It's at least fair to say though that Rafa has 'tried' to be more expansive with his fullbacks.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053978#msg1053978 date=1265976178]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38885.msg1053974#msg1053974 date=1265975970]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38885.msg1053968#msg1053968 date=1265975599]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053776#msg1053776 date=1265931640]
No, I won't go bombastically OTT and quack on about 'pace' as some panacea, but I am convinced that we need some injecting into at least two positions in our team

We are like crimson bollards at times, and the outlet that a nippy player gives us can be overestimated when we have a surplus, but can never be underestimated when we have the slowest squad in the Top 6
[/quote]

There was a point in the Arsenal game where we cleared the ball from a corner and it landed near the semi circle with a couple of Arsenal defenders about 10 yards either side of the ball on the half way line. Why do we never put a player with at least reasonable pace (ie Gerrard, N'Gog as neither are exactly 'slow') near the halfway line during setpieces?

It's unnecessary to have 11 men in our box, it leaves no outlet and just invites pressure, even more so when you're a side that's short on genuine pace.
[/quote]

the bottom line is the fullbacks don't believe in their ability to push up to help the attack and still have the pace to get back (without getting caught upfield) if the movie breaks down.
glen johnson is the type of fullback I've been going on about but he cost 18 mil so its unlikely we'll see his like on the left hand side anytime soon. instead we have to put up with insua (who is fucking WANK) who neither attacks nor defends competely.

degan gets up the pitch but his lack of ability is painful. it was funny (in a painful kind of way) when gerrard mad an absolute PUNCH of a cross field pass, the ball arrives at degan's feet who is in acres of space and he miscontrols the ball, the camera then cuts to gerrard who (I think) looks to the heavens. ha ha...*cries*
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but Johnson is a pretty shit defender, regardless of his ability to 'get back', his positioning and general defensive play leaves alot to be desired. It's at least fair to say though that Rafa has 'tried' to be more expansive with his fullbacks.


[/quote]

the combination of the overly attacking johnson and the workaholic kuyt was a good one because when johnson got forwards kuyt would cover his position. obviously you want the fullbacks to defend competetantly but you'd think any gaps left with their runs up field would be covered by our TWO holding midfielders.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38885.msg1053808#msg1053808 date=1265934164]
Yeah, I know mate, I know.
We *all* know.
[/quote]
No one drove me off any site Bren.
I dont understand it either to be honest, we used to be friends 😉
Rafa divides people, thats part of his machiavellian game.
Weirdos like Roger are the only ones I have issues with on this site...