I couldn't call lucas 'crap', his job is to shield the defense and he is resonably competent at doing that.
Henderson
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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47182.msg1413153#msg1413153 date=1318852139]
I couldn't call lucas 'crap', his job is to shield the defense and he is resonably competent at doing that.
[/quote]
Reasonably competent is not really acceptable if:
a) that is his job
b) we want to win a title
League title's are not won with reasonably competent players in key positions
I couldn't call lucas 'crap', his job is to shield the defense and he is resonably competent at doing that.
[/quote]
Reasonably competent is not really acceptable if:
a) that is his job
b) we want to win a title
League title's are not won with reasonably competent players in key positions
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47182.msg1413156#msg1413156 date=1318852686]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47182.msg1413153#msg1413153 date=1318852139]
I couldn't call lucas 'crap', his job is to shield the defense and he is resonably competent at doing that.
[/quote]
Reasonably competent is not really acceptable if:
a) that is his job
b) we want to win a title
League title's are not won with reasonably competent players in key positions
[/quote]
Carrick?
Mikel?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47182.msg1413153#msg1413153 date=1318852139]
I couldn't call lucas 'crap', his job is to shield the defense and he is resonably competent at doing that.
[/quote]
Reasonably competent is not really acceptable if:
a) that is his job
b) we want to win a title
League title's are not won with reasonably competent players in key positions
[/quote]
Carrick?
Mikel?
Mikel & Carrick are both way better than Lucas.
United aren't anywhere near as reliant on their central midfield as we are. It's not as key a position for them.
That's why they can get away with central midfield pairings like Giggs and Carrick, which in another team (such as ours) would become horribly horribly exposed.
That's why they can get away with central midfield pairings like Giggs and Carrick, which in another team (such as ours) would become horribly horribly exposed.
I just can't get angry at lucas because he is asked to shield the defense and he does that, but in a vanilla, blah, meh, kinda way but he does that none the less. when he was in brazil he was known as the briazilian gerrard (tee hee) but that does suggest he is a far more attacking player than he has shown and is bein TOLD not to venture as forward as he would like. basically, no question if henderson/adam were asked to play in the lucas role they would be more of a threat or at the very least more of a presense in the opposition half, they question is would they leave the defense badly exposed. no offense to our defenders but they need all the protection they can get.
He breaks up the play and keeps the ball moving, which is efficient enough to keep us ticking over but he can occasionally become sorely exposed, especially when he plays in a central two. That said he's also had some fucking great games against the big sides. The trouble is, without Gerrard, we lack someone who will exert their authority on the midfield on a consistent basis.
Actually on the odd occasions Lucas does venture forward, he's generally been crap. Whether it be a very conservative pass sideways (instead of a penetrating one) or horribly struck shots. He might have done alright in Brazil as a dynamic, attacking midfielder but in our league and all other top leagues he's certainly not up to the level of even a half decent midfielder. The only job he can do for us is what he's currently doing. Shielding the defense and nothing much more, though his passing has admittedly improved bar the Scum game.
Then again having the likes of Mascherano, Didi or Alonso doing that job would be a million times better and something we should be looking to address in January, if not the summer.
Then again having the likes of Mascherano, Didi or Alonso doing that job would be a million times better and something we should be looking to address in January, if not the summer.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47182.msg1413197#msg1413197 date=1318858787]
He breaks up the play and keeps the ball moving, which is efficient enough to keep us ticking over but he can occasionally becoming sorely exposed, especially when he plays in a central two. That said he's also had some fucking great games against the big sides. The trouble is, without Gerrard, we lack someone who will exert their authority on the midfield on a consistent basis.
[/quote]
I'm inclinced to shake things up now, marky. we need to be creating more chances (because we're profligate in front of goal) sure replacing lucas with say henderson is going to give us less solidity going towards our goal but we will definately be more potent going forwards. if our defenders need 'that' much protection to the point were we are effectively playing with 3 centre backs (2 CB + lucas) well we need to get defenders who are more self sufficient.
He breaks up the play and keeps the ball moving, which is efficient enough to keep us ticking over but he can occasionally becoming sorely exposed, especially when he plays in a central two. That said he's also had some fucking great games against the big sides. The trouble is, without Gerrard, we lack someone who will exert their authority on the midfield on a consistent basis.
[/quote]
I'm inclinced to shake things up now, marky. we need to be creating more chances (because we're profligate in front of goal) sure replacing lucas with say henderson is going to give us less solidity going towards our goal but we will definately be more potent going forwards. if our defenders need 'that' much protection to the point were we are effectively playing with 3 centre backs (2 CB + lucas) well we need to get defenders who are more self sufficient.
As far as i can remember Lucas has played very well against Bolton and he put in a good performance v a 10 man Everton side, apart from that he's been average (my memory is pretty shocking mind).
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
I'd like love to see a Adam, Henderson, Gerrard midfield. It's the way forward for us I think. However I think blaming this all on Lucas is a bit bad. He's been solid, reliable and always tried his best for us. He's been worth the money we've paid and is on a relatively modest salary (I think), he's never claimed he's a world beater, and never once caused shit for us. I like him, he should move to the bench though. I think the underlying problem here is we have a shit defence. I was happy with the Coates signing, I really think he'll be one for the future, however we really need one for the now too. We should consider selling either Agger or Skrtel and getting a top quality centre back in at Christmas, we'd be much better for it. Oh for a football manager-esc world where we'd sign Subotic.
I think, which-ever three is chosen from (Stevie, Adam, Henderson, Lucas and Spearing) will give us a competent midfield but not an outstanding one, like how Stevie, Xabi and Masher was as a trio.
So it's not a simple case, of switching to playing 3 in middle, for the manager, who has a lot more to consider - one would imagine.
That said, i do like the look of Henderson in the middle, having had the chance to catch the second half of the game. But we certainly need an upgrade on Lucas and Spearing and quickly....i hope we address this in Jan. In the summer we can look to cash in on Agger and hopefully bring in someone who isn't broken all the time....there i said it. I have been one of the hard-core Agger fans on this site, but i have had enough of his injuries.
So it's not a simple case, of switching to playing 3 in middle, for the manager, who has a lot more to consider - one would imagine.
That said, i do like the look of Henderson in the middle, having had the chance to catch the second half of the game. But we certainly need an upgrade on Lucas and Spearing and quickly....i hope we address this in Jan. In the summer we can look to cash in on Agger and hopefully bring in someone who isn't broken all the time....there i said it. I have been one of the hard-core Agger fans on this site, but i have had enough of his injuries.
Lucas' recent contributions (most of last season and beginning of this) have been reasonable, but not mind-blowing. Its just that compared to how abject he was before this it seems like world class form.
He wasnt reasonable yesterday however. He was utterly utterly hapless - giving away possession, and running into people like a fat 6 year old in the playground.
He wasnt reasonable yesterday however. He was utterly utterly hapless - giving away possession, and running into people like a fat 6 year old in the playground.
It is a slight concern that despite a number of excellent displays for us, Lucas can still turn up on any given day and look like a fish out of water. I mean, it's quite literally like you've just plucked someone from their armchair somewhere and placed them in a Premiership football match. Sometimes he looks so out of his depth it's comical.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47182.msg1413159#msg1413159 date=1318853332]
Mikel & Carrick are both way better than Lucas.
[/quote]
Carrick deffo isn't 'way better' than Lucas
Mikel & Carrick are both way better than Lucas.
[/quote]
Carrick deffo isn't 'way better' than Lucas
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47182.msg1413202#msg1413202 date=1318859806]
As far as i can remember Lucas has played very well against Bolton and he put in a good performance v a 10 man Everton side, apart from that he's been average (my memory is pretty shocking mind).
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
[/quote]
He probably played his best game ever against Stoke too, and we lost.
As far as i can remember Lucas has played very well against Bolton and he put in a good performance v a 10 man Everton side, apart from that he's been average (my memory is pretty shocking mind).
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
[/quote]
He probably played his best game ever against Stoke too, and we lost.
Apart from Saturday Lucas has been very steady this season albeit not spectacular.
Apart from Saturday Adam has been pretty mediocre this season, but occasionally okay.
So many people wanting a midfield with Adam in it and Lucas not.
If I didn't know better I would think that some people have an agenda.
Apart from Saturday Adam has been pretty mediocre this season, but occasionally okay.
So many people wanting a midfield with Adam in it and Lucas not.
If I didn't know better I would think that some people have an agenda.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47182.msg1413268#msg1413268 date=1318878797]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47182.msg1413202#msg1413202 date=1318859806]
As far as i can remember Lucas has played very well against Bolton and he put in a good performance v a 10 man Everton side, apart from that he's been average (my memory is pretty shocking mind).
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
[/quote]
He probably played his best game ever against Stoke too, and we lost.
[/quote]
How could we possibly lose if Lucas was at his best?
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47182.msg1413202#msg1413202 date=1318859806]
As far as i can remember Lucas has played very well against Bolton and he put in a good performance v a 10 man Everton side, apart from that he's been average (my memory is pretty shocking mind).
Now we have Stevie back i'd hope Kenny will use a midfield of Hendo--Stevie--Adam (which seems to be what quite a few posters would like to see).
Over to you Kenny..........
[/quote]
He probably played his best game ever against Stoke too, and we lost.
[/quote]
How could we possibly lose if Lucas was at his best?
there's no worse a sight in football than lucas 'striding' towards the goal. he has zero attacking threat.
One of our midfielders is pretty average but offers something in defence.
The other midfielder is pretty average but offers something in attack.
Together the form an at best average midfield.
Realistically you wouldn't expect to find either in a team with title winning credentials.
I suspect that if a poster favours one it is because they have an agenda against the other.
The other midfielder is pretty average but offers something in attack.
Together the form an at best average midfield.
Realistically you wouldn't expect to find either in a team with title winning credentials.
I suspect that if a poster favours one it is because they have an agenda against the other.
Re: Re: Henderson
[quote author=the count link=topic=47182.msg1413273#msg1413273 date=1318879280]
Apart from Saturday Lucas has been very steady this season albeit not spectacular.
Apart from Saturday Adam has been pretty mediocre this season, but occasionally okay.
So many people wanting a midfield with Adam in it and Lucas not.
If I didn't know better I would think that some people have an agenda.
[/quote]
^^^^
[quote author=the count link=topic=47182.msg1413273#msg1413273 date=1318879280]
Apart from Saturday Lucas has been very steady this season albeit not spectacular.
Apart from Saturday Adam has been pretty mediocre this season, but occasionally okay.
So many people wanting a midfield with Adam in it and Lucas not.
If I didn't know better I would think that some people have an agenda.
[/quote]
^^^^
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47182.msg1413290#msg1413290 date=1318880575]
there's no worse a sight in football than lucas 'striding' towards the goal. he has zero attacking threat.
[/quote]
Lucas Goal vs Steaua (HD). Europa League 2010 2011
LIVERPOOL vs BENFICA Goal (2:0) Lucas
Yep, I'm being pedantic.
there's no worse a sight in football than lucas 'striding' towards the goal. he has zero attacking threat.
[/quote]
Lucas Goal vs Steaua (HD). Europa League 2010 2011
LIVERPOOL vs BENFICA Goal (2:0) Lucas
Yep, I'm being pedantic.
Nice Europa league goals themn ... Any from the league?
Yep, I'm being pedantic
Yep, I'm being pedantic
[quote author=themn link=topic=47182.msg1413373#msg1413373 date=1318884916]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47182.msg1413368#msg1413368 date=1318884824]
Nice Europa league goals themn ... Any from the league?
Yep, I'm being pedantic
[/quote]
"zero goal threat"
Do your own work.
[/quote]
Take that as a no ... Thanks for proving his point ... In the league, he adds zip (bar that great pass for Gerrard vs Newcastle!)
I don't have a problem with him starting every game in that tourney though, or the other one if we make it, next year ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47182.msg1413368#msg1413368 date=1318884824]
Nice Europa league goals themn ... Any from the league?
Yep, I'm being pedantic
[/quote]
"zero goal threat"
Do your own work.
[/quote]
Take that as a no ... Thanks for proving his point ... In the league, he adds zip (bar that great pass for Gerrard vs Newcastle!)
I don't have a problem with him starting every game in that tourney though, or the other one if we make it, next year ...
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