Harvey Elliott

[StevieM]

Eliott's isn't good enough to play in our midfield.

His best role is probably as a sub for Salah at RW.

I couldn’t disagree more with this.

He’s much better as an attacking midfielder creating triangles with Salah & Trent, overlapping & attacking through the half space.

He doesn’t have the pace or finishing to play in our front 3. The only thing he’s lacking is a bit of physical presence.

I’ve said it before, he’s more like a Bernardo Silva type and we will be one to benefit from a good DM behind him.

He’s young, full of running, committed and technically gifted and he’ll have a good season rotating with Slobbers.

 

[rurikbird]

I couldn’t disagree more with this.

He’s much better as an attacking midfielder creating triangles with Salah & Trent, overlapping & attacking through the half space.

He doesn’t have the pace or finishing to play in our front 3. The only thing he’s lacking is a bit of physical presence.

I’ve said it before, he’s more like a Bernardo Silva type and we will be one to benefit from a good DM behind him.

He’s young, full of running, committed and technically gifted and he’ll have a good season rotating with Slobbers.

Yes, Harvey fits into the profile of those hard-working and creative midfielders who are not particularly physical and don’t score tons, but are essential if you want to build a pass-and-move side. His football intelligence is high and he is a willing worker and has a bit of fire in him - don’t see a problem with him TBH. Discounting his injury lay-off he actually played a lot of minutes for his age.

 

[Modo]

Who is this hard-working, creative player, that doesn't score tons and isn't particularly physical?

Lallana?

 

[binomial]

Fabio C 🙁

 

[darkstarexodus]

Who is this hard-working, creative player, that doesn't score tons and isn't particularly physical?

Lallana?

This def explains why you don't fancy him

 

[Modo]

This def explains why you don't fancy him

Hahahaha, don't make me laugh this late...

But seriously, Lallana didn't just work hard, he was quite good at defending.
That's an aspect of the game that Elliott is currently lacking.

Anyway, I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Modo]

Fabio C 🙁

Lol, true.
Got about 10 mins in Leipzig's loss yesterday

 

[rurikbird]

Who is this hard-working, creative player, that doesn't score tons and isn't particularly physical?

Lallana?

Iniesta and his countless imitators 😉

 

[Modo]

Iniesta and his countless imitators 😉

Yeah, I was drinking the same hype-juice a while ago. I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[rurikbird]

Yeah, I was drinking the same hype-juice a while ago. I hope he proves me wrong.

Not comparing him to Iniesta, who is obviously generational, just saying there is a clear type Elliott can become and saying he doesn’t defend enough for a midfielder or score enough for a wide forward doesn’t really prove he isn’t good enough. If he can improve his ability to protect the ball (rather than giving it away like he did vs Bournemouth), in addition to the energy and work-rate and a pinch of genuine creativity and technical quality that he already has, there is definitely a place for this kind of player at the top level.

 

[StevieM]

Who is this hard-working, creative player, that doesn't score tons and isn't particularly physical?

Lallana?

I’ll say it again.

Bernardo Silva - small, skilful, not particularly physical but technically good, attack minded midfielder that averages about 6 league goals a season.

That’s the blue print - when Bernardo turned 20, he’d played once for Benfica. It was at this point in his career that he started to establish himself at Monaco and a move to City was 3 seasons away.

Lets’s not also forget, Harvey can be registered as an U21 next season as well - plenty of time for him.

 

[mwake]

Bernardo is small, fast, tigerish, decisive and mercurial. The only thing Harvey has in common is height.

In recent years have we ever loaned out a player that has come back and enjoyed long term success? From recent history it would seem being loaned out is the kiss of death for your Liverpool career.

 

[StevieM]

Bernardo is small, fast, tigerish, decisive and mercurial. The only thing Harvey has in common is height.

In recent years have we ever loaned out a player that has come back and enjoyed long term success? From recent history it would seem being loaned out is the kiss of death for your Liverpool career.

Are you comparing Harvey to 20 yo Silva or Man City 24+yo Silva.

How anyone else’s career has developed after being loaned out is irrelevant.

 

[KopRed]

I’ll say it again.

Bernardo Silva - small, skilful, not particularly physical but technically good, attack minded midfielder that averages about 6 league goals a season.

That’s the blue print - when Bernardo turned 20, he’d played once for Benfica. It was at this point in his career that he started to establish himself at Monaco and a move to City was 3 seasons away.

Lets’s not also forget, Harvey can be registered as an U21 next season as well - plenty of time for him.

We can put in the same argument for practically every other 20yo with Silva's statue. They have nothing in common. Harvey hadn't shown in any shape or form he could play in our midfield; the opposite is true so far. Nobody is asking for him to be cut today but blind faith can only bring you so far. The clock is ticking.

 

[rurikbird]

We can put in the same argument for practically every other 20yo with Silva's statue. They have nothing in common. Harvey hadn't shown in any shape or form he could play in our midfield; the opposite is true so far. Nobody is asking for him to be cut today but blind faith can only bring you so far. The clock is ticking.

If you look at some of these “technical midfielders” from Modric to Lallana, they often started as wingers/AMs and moved further back as they matured physically and tactically. At age 19 Bernardo Silva played 38 games for Benfica reserves in the 2nd Portuguese league and scored 7 goals. He scored 8 league goals per season on average playing as a winger/AM at Monaco in subsequent years. Not many people viewed him as a potential top-class CM before Pep moulded him into one.

So it doesn’t matter if Elliott doesn’t fully fit our midfield profile at this moment - it would be strange if he was already a complete package at this point! Long-term the traits that will determine a player’s success are top-class technical ability + competitive mentality and football intelligence. I believe Elliott has all 3; there is a slight question about his weaker foot technique - if he improves it, he will become a more complete player and it will make his eventual transition into midfield easier.

 

[KopRed]

If you look at some of these “technical midfielders” from Modric to Lallana, they often started as wingers/AMs and moved further back as they matured physically and tactically. At age 19 Bernardo Silva played 38 games for Benfica 2 in the 2nd Portuguese league and scored 7 goals. He scored 9, 7 and 8 league goals respectively playing as a winger/AM at Monaco in subsequent years. Not many people viewed him as a potential top-class CM before Pep moulded him into one.

I am not sure where this Lallana / Silva comparison came about but they obviously had alot of first team football and progressively proved themselves good enough to move to better clubs.

Harvey is different. He is here now, at one of the biggest club. He is however not good enough. He will never be good enough just training, playing 10 odd games and 20 subs appearances every season in different positions. We need to be pragmatic with him. It is silly to expect him to magically become a Lallana or a Silva when he comes of age playing little to no football that matters. That simply does not happen.

 

[rurikbird]

Last season Elliott started 18 Premier League games for Liverpool FC and came on as a sub in 14 more + 3 starts in domestic cups (would have been more, but both of our cup runs were cut short) and 4 starts and 4 sub appearances in the Champions League. Plus a bunch of games in the U21 Euros and friendlies with England.

Is that really not enough for a 19 year old player? Where does the concern about his supposedly low minutes hampering his development comes from? I’d be more concerned that our £70M 24 year old striker has played fewer minutes than 19 year old Elliott.

 

[rurikbird]

But seriously, Lallana didn't just work hard, he was quite good at defending.

I would be SHOCKED if Elliott doesn’t reach at least the Lallana levels of defending by the time he is physically mature. Don’t think anyone thought Lallana was particularly tough when he was 20…

Lastly I want to say, comparing Elliott to someone like Carvalho, I feel Elliott has a much clearer path in front of him because the Bernardo/Odegaard/Lallana type is much more in demand in modern football than the classic #10, which is probably Carvalho’s best position. It’s easier for me to see Elliott at #8 than Carvalho as a midfielder or a false 9. I think he should be the least of our worries.

 

[StevieM]

We can put in the same argument for practically every other 20yo with Silva's statue. They have nothing in common. Harvey hadn't shown in any shape or form he could play in our midfield; the opposite is true so far. Nobody is asking for him to be cut today but blind faith can only bring you so far. The clock is ticking.

I think that’s nonsense to be honest.

Before his injury he was starting in midfield instead of Hendo. Last season, for large parts early on he was arguably our best midfielder - Ok there weren’t loads of options, but he acquired himself well in a largely dysfunctional team.

Attacking wise he’s fine for a 20 yo - defensively he’s not. He needs to improve, but he’s shown a willingness to learn, adapt and improve - it’s not blind faith to think he can progress.

You have no idea what Harvey has or hasn’t got in common with a 20 yo Silva, because you never saw a 20 yo Silva play - unless you regularly watched Benfica reserves.

I’m saying he could progress and be one the sort of player Silva has become because he needs to use his technique, work rate and intelligence more so than physicality.

We know Harvey can shoot and we know he can pick a pass to unlock defences - because we’ve seen him do it.

Harvey’s stats at the same age in terms of appearances and goals (ie when they turned 20) are not that dissimilar to Gerrards. Different players and not suggesting Elliot is a Gerrard, but it begs the question - what is it people expect from Elliot at this stage of his career?

 

[KopRed]

Gerrard?? I give up.

 

[StevieM]

Gerrard?? I give up.

Give up about what exactly?

 

[dmishra]

I'm not worried about Elliott, mostly because I don't have extremely high expectations for him

Best case, he becomes a fitter version of Lallana which is a pretty good and valuable player.

Worst case, he doesn't pan out, and we can sell him for 25-30 million given his English premium.

It's a win-win situation.

 

[peterhague]

Bernardo is small, fast, tigerish, decisive and mercurial. The only thing Harvey has in common is height.

In recent years have we ever loaned out a player that has come back and enjoyed long term success? From recent history it would seem being loaned out is the kiss of death for your Liverpool career.

What a fucking moronic post this is.

 

[tombrown]

We can put in the same argument for practically every other 20yo with Silva's statue. They have nothing in common. Harvey hadn't shown in any shape or form he could play in our midfield; the opposite is true so far. Nobody is asking for him to be cut today but blind faith can only bring you so far. The clock is ticking.

I now have a mental image of 20 year old midfielders around the country, each with a shrine in their ma's house with an 18" statue of Bernardo Silva

 

[Modo]

I’ll say it again.

Bernardo Silva - small, skilful, not particularly physical but technically good, attack minded midfielder that averages about 6 league goals a season.

That’s the blue print - when Bernardo turned 20, he’d played once for Benfica. It was at this point in his career that he started to establish himself at Monaco and a move to City was 3 seasons away.

Lets’s not also forget, Harvey can be registered as an U21 next season as well - plenty of time for him.

Ok I believe you, just one big difference between Silva and Elliott.
Silva was a lot quicker than Harvey at 20.

 

[StevieM]

Ok I believe you, just one big difference between Silva and Elliott.
Silva was a lot quicker than Harvey at 20.

He could well have been - no idea to be honest - good job midfield, unlike the Salah position people keep banging on about, doesn’t require you to be particularly fast.

Besides - I don’t think Harvey’s “slow” - he’s got that sudden burst of pace that’s more useful.

 

[Modo]

Other opinions:

 

[binomial]

I'm not worried about Elliott, mostly because I don't have extremely high expectations for him

Best case, he becomes a fitter version of Lallana which is a pretty good and valuable player.

Worst case, he doesn't pan out, and we can sell him for 25-30 million given his English premium.

It's a win-win situation.

Pretty much how I see it too. A valuable asset we’ll get a decent wedge for in a few years, not quick enough, not strong enough, doesn’t score many goals and as we saw lat season kills us defensively.

 

[FreshRed]

Ok I believe you, just one big difference between Silva and Elliott.
Silva was a lot quicker than Harvey at 20.

BTW - my original reference to Silva, was David Silva. He joined Man City from Celta at 24 and was terribly quick.

If Harvey was not going to get minutes, I could argue, he would be better somewhere else where he would. But, he will get plenty of minutes and replacing him with someone better would be cost-prohibitive.

Keep him and let him grow. I agree with others that worse case he becomes a useful Lallana type, but I think he already has better vision than that.