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Goodbye Harvey?

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On balance I’d like him to stay, but I think there’s a difference that’s often missed between work rate (his is exceptional) and press ability (his chronic lack of pace and size is a big disadvantage here).

Szobo = incredible work rate and exceptional pressing ability

Elliott = incredible work rate and sub par pressing ability

Jones = excellent work rate and excellent pressing ability

There’s no route into advanced midfield roles for Elliot here up against Szobo and Jones…I think he’ll likely stagnate under Slot.
 
It does seem like Slot has something against short players. Harvey, Endo... It's probably curtains for Doak as well
 
Hyena said:
It does seem like Slot has something against short players. Harvey, Endo... It's probably curtains for Doak as well
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Nah - Endo is 5ft10 and Mac10 is shorter than Endo - so it's not that.

The problem is that Harvey has neither the pace to be a Right Winger, is not an outstanding Dribbler, and is not physically strong enough or well built to be the 3rd Midfielder of a midfield 3. I think his best talent was actually reading the game in the attacking spaces but ability and physicality is not at the required level.
 
darkstarexodus said:
I'd like Harvey to get more match time and stay with us but I'd understand why we might look to sell.

But if we do look to sell, I want 40-50m. There's no way I'm taking less than what we want for Doak.
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You guys seriously think he is worth 40M or more ?
 
Beamrider said:
A lot of the criticism of our transfer policy is around not signing, e.g., Caicedo or Joao Pedro when they went to Brighton, instead waiting and bidding big numbers later on. Harvey is the other side of that coin. We did sign him, but his development with us isn’t what it would have been at Brighton or a similar club. And now there is speculation he’ll be off, and in part that’s because he probably isn’t the kind of player Slot is looking for. But in another world, he goes to Brighton (or stays at Fulham) and plays every week and becomes a world-beater. We’re now ready to bid £60m+ for him and he is desperate to sign because he’s a fan.
There are players who get time and don’t deserve it. If Harvey goes, and I hope to God he doesn’t, he’ll be a player who deserved time and didn’t get it.
That’s the dilemma. That’s why, unless a kid is exceptional and ready to go straight away (e.g. Trent) we incline to let them develop and pay the premium for a finished article.
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Can we pin this somewhere and get the crazies to read it every time before they’re about to moan about not signing some fucker Brighton just have?
 
moron said:
You guys seriously think he is worth 40M or more ?
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Based on the current market, why wouldn't he be? If he was elsewhere he'd be demanding a lot more in fees. If you look at what we got for Solanke, Ibe, etc a few years ago, what we're asking for (apparently) for Doak, he's well worth it.
 
I agree we can hope for up to £40m, but it will depend on how much game time he gets in the second half of the season. If Elliott doesn’t play, loses even more time to develop, and it becomes clear he’s neither wanted nor needed, then it’s likely clubs won’t bid as high as we’d hoped.

Essentially, giving him more game time is a win-win. After watching Slot’s attacking patterns at Feyenoord, I expected Elliott to thrive, so I’m still curious to see what he can do here.

I think Slot is right to focus on regaining control of games, but I don’t like his tone when he suggests we can’t trust players like Elliott or Chiesa unless we’re 5-0 up. He’s mentioned that twice now, and it must be dispiriting to hear as a squad player. One of Klopp’s greatest strengths was making every player feel involved and valued as part of the team. It's been my only gripe of anything Slots come out with and feel it's something he should shift away from.
 
Squiggles said:
I agree we can hope for up to £40m, but it will depend on how much game time he gets in the second half of the season. If Elliott doesn’t play, loses even more time to develop, and it becomes clear he’s neither wanted nor needed, then it’s likely clubs won’t bid as high as we’d hoped.

Essentially, giving him more game time is a win-win. After watching Slot’s attacking patterns at Feyenoord, I expected Elliott to thrive, so I’m still curious to see what he can do here.

I think Slot is right to focus on regaining control of games, but I don’t like his tone when he suggests we can’t trust players like Elliott or Chiesa unless we’re 5-0 up. He’s mentioned that twice now, and it must be dispiriting to hear as a squad player. One of Klopp’s greatest strengths was making every player feel involved and valued as part of the team. It's been my only gripe of anything Slots come out with and feel it's something he should shift away from.
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Slot has a "either you got or you don't" kind of mentality. A bit like Mourinho. These are the worst kind of managers when it comes to player development. Slot pretty much banished all of our promising young players.
The only reason McConnell and Danns stuck around is because they got injured.
Out of the ones he kept, only Bradders is the one getting regular minutes.
 
Beamrider said:
Liverpool boss Arne Slot on Harvey Elliott's return to first-team action: "He's a talented player. He's been with us for so long. In recent weeks, he comes in quite a lot and gets his minutes, but like it is for him and many others, he's in competition with the other good players.

"He was very unlucky, I think after two games, he got injured, was out for a long time and what I've seen now with almost all of our players that have been out for quite a while that in this league - with the tempo, intensity and the quality we have, the other teams as well - it is not so easy to come back and be at your best immediately.

"That is the balance we have to find, to give them playing time to get to their best level, but still be able to win every game. "
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Well giving him minutes when we're 3-0 up would have been the perfect tine to give him that playing time would it not Arne?
 
Modo said:
Slot has a "either you got or you don't" kind of mentality. A bit like Mourinho. These are the worst kind of managers when it comes to player development. Slot pretty much banished all of our promising young players.
The only reason McConnell and Danns stuck around is because they got injured.
Out of the ones he kept, only Bradders is the one getting regular minutes.
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And Gravy
 
Our promising youngsters are out on loan getting valuable game time, the ones that were sold weren’t that young….wanted to leave and the offers were too good to turn down, you can’t have it both ways.

Youngsters need to PROVE to the manager they’re good enough and can ADAPT to his style to EARN game time. When Klopp came in he decided the young lads bought in or developed by Rodgers….Ibe, Ojo, Alberto, Ilori, Wisdom, Flanagan, Brad Smith etc weren’t good enough and they were sold pretty quickly.

We have to remember we’re 6 months into his first season, he wants to win. We could be on for an unprecedented season, not just for us but for him too so now may not be the time for an influx of youth players. Besides if our scouts did their jobs and brought through proper young talent like Utd City Chelsea Arsenal all do then they’d be more room for player develop. And don’t forget Arne worked with many young players at Feyenoord and didn’t hesitate to use the ones he thought were good enough. Hartman, Timber, Minteh, Kokcu were all 18-20 year olds playing under him.
 
Buddha said:
rate and exceptional pressing ability

Elliott = incredible work rate and sub par pressing ability

Jones = excellent work rate and excellent pressing ability
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He's a much more talented footballer and finisher than Sboz, who is really more of an athlete.
 
localny said:
He's a much more talented footballer and finisher than Sboz, who is really more of an athlete.
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The world class players are both, but if you can only be one in this league, there's no doubt that it's an athlete. It's part of what is shit about the league and the game now.

I don't think Elliot would be the most lamentable casualty of that though, or even necessarily a casualty of it at all. He just needs to play in a different team, and at the end of it there's a slim chance he becomes the sort of player that would justify regular game time in our team, but there's zero chance if we aren't playing him.
 
My main problem is he ALWAYS changes a game that he comes into for the better. Last season he was often used off the bench when we'd essentially ran out of ideas and everything picked up pretty quickly. I'm not saying he's just a plan B player, but even if he is, he's worth keeping for that reason alone.
 
Woland said:
My main problem is he ALWAYS changes a game that he comes into for the better. Last season he was often used off the bench when we'd essentially ran out of ideas and everything picked up pretty quickly. I'm not saying he's just a plan B player, but even if he is, he's worth keeping for that reason alone.
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Yeah, that’s why I’d prefer to keep him. He’d hopefully be more in time, but he’s one hell of an impact sub right now against tired legs.
 
Modo said:
Slot has a "either you got or you don't" kind of mentality. A bit like Mourinho. These are the worst kind of managers when it comes to player development. Slot pretty much banished all of our promising young players.
The only reason McConnell and Danns stuck around is because they got injured.
Out of the ones he kept, only Bradders is the one getting regular minutes.
Click to expand...
Though didn't Slot have a good rep as nurturing talent? I thought that was one of the reasons he was selected.
 
Woland said:
My main problem is he ALWAYS changes a game that he comes into for the better. Last season he was often used off the bench when we'd essentially ran out of ideas and everything picked up pretty quickly. I'm not saying he's just a plan B player, but even if he is, he's worth keeping for that reason alone.
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Sure, but does he want to be an impact sub?
 
LarryHagman said:
Be a shame to lose Harvey, he's not had chance with Slot.

If he can't make it, may as well put the Academy in the bin and just save up for Brighton players.
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Why? What’s Harvey got to do with our academy? He didn’t come through our academy nor has played for us at youth level, he was scouted having already made a few appearances for Fulham’s first team, from there went straight into our first team set up.

We’ve brought through Kelleher, Bradley, Quansah and Jones in the last 5 years. The purpose of an academy system is to also help those who won’t make it here, get onto the professional ladder, like a Cameron Brannagan or an Adam Phillips or an Ovie Ejaria.
 
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