Gutted but excited about our changes for a return to the top 4

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=41962.msg1178267#msg1178267 date=1284978956]
I think there are some good points there Dreamy, and said as much myself in the Roy thread although I still think we will struggle for fourth.
We need another striker badly, but we will finish better than seventh.
I think/thought Maxi would be a good option on the right, but on current form he is disappointing.
Let's give Amoo a run.

regards
[/quote]

A striker is definately needed or else give N'Gog an extended run.

You could see the difference in space afforded to Torres once he occupied some of the Utd defence on Sunday leading to both goals.

I'd love to see Amoo given a chance or failing that Babel.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=41962.msg1178314#msg1178314 date=1284982502]
We don't have a chance in hell of finishing 4th this season.
[/quote]

So short sighted

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178447#msg1178447 date=1284997169]
'It was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT'

Dreamy types this shit, and wonders why everyone thinks he's retarded.

We lost.

And two years ago, WE FUCKING WON HERE 4-1

Where was your cunty post then?
[/quote]

If we pass the ball like that for the rest of the season we will beat most teams.

If you can't see the positives in our passing then fair enough.

We'll see who is right by seasons end and for the last few years I've been on the money.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178456#msg1178456 date=1284998562]
people can post mails in an attempt to get us excited and that is to be admired but it's hard to get excited about a manager who is has been mediocre in the past, is showing mediocrity now and to make matters worse the people telling me to give the manager time and 'the liverpool way' are the same people who wanted shot of the previous manager after essentially one bad season. I'm having trouble mustering loyalty towards a manager appointed by a board I hate and want gone.
[/quote]

Rafa challenged for the league exactly once in 6 years when he was brought in for exactly that reason.

Roy has been brought in to return us to the top 4 and is being battered after 5 matchs after playing 3 of the toughest away games all season.

Christ!

 

[Niall K]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178736#msg1178736 date=1285022743]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178447#msg1178447 date=1284997169]
'It was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT'

Dreamy types this shit, and wonders why everyone thinks he's retarded.

We lost.

And two years ago, WE FUCKING WON HERE 4-1

Where was your cunty post then?
[/quote]

If we pass the ball like that for the rest of the season we will beat most teams.

If you can't see the positives in our passing then fair enough.

We'll see who is right by seasons end and for the last few years I've been on the money.
[/quote]

Seriously Dreamy and in the nicest possible way. Fuck off.

You called the Keane transfer right and haven't shut the fuck up about it since. Every other season were you banging on about how this was gonna be our year. Then you moved to Australia and your whole world was turned upside down.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178630#msg1178630 date=1285011061]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178628#msg1178628 date=1285010863]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178620#msg1178620 date=1285010631]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178612#msg1178612 date=1285010224]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

We gave benitez 6 seasons. We declined dramatically in his last year while playing shite football. We had a fleeting phase where we looked sensational. I liked rafa and wanted him to suceed but he had his time and failed so can we please move on
[/quote]

we gave rafa 6 season in which time he won a europen cup, an fa cup, reached a european final AGAIN and in the year before he was sacked he finished 2nd in the league above chelsea and a mere 4 points of manager. the ONE season we he didn't qualify for the CL (league position or winning it) he was fucked off...and replaced with roy hodgson.

gracious...
[/quote]

His last three seasons with us were dissapointing. He lost the players. It was time. And most everybody who's been paying attention to LFC knows it.
[/quote]

how were his last three seasons disappointing? as for losing the players that's an easy excuse for players that wanted out. rafa left and yossi (for example) still fucked off.
[/quote]

Neil, Rafa slowly choked the life out of the fans and the team!

 

[keniget]

I can't say I'm a massive fan of Roy so far, but didn't he do a reasonable job of helping Inter rebuild?

 

[Squiggles]

Benitez was proven in Spain and proved himself in the Champions League.

Few Liverpool fans ever thought he would win the Premiership, so let's not kid ourselves here.

If Benitez had stayed I would have expected another disastrous summer. I would have expected the squad to be even worse than last year, with a low squad morale, poor signings, and a continued war of words between the boss and the owners played out in the national press. These are all reasonable assumptions to make.

I'm not glossing over a poor start, but the squad have said they're happier; Cole, Meireles and Konchesky look decent enough players so far. We're in a reasonable position to progress on from here - I just hope Roy's up to the job.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178723#msg1178723 date=1285020748]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178686#msg1178686 date=1285015251]
With potentially gerard and torres leaving as well a mash? can't agree with that neil
[/quote]

And Cole wouldn't be here either.

So our team would have Insua, Lucas, Spearing, El Zahr and N'Gog as mainstays. We'd be nowhere close to 7th.
[/quote]


right, so if rafa had still been here we wouldn't have received transfer fees for gerrard, torres and mascherano? fucking hell you're desperate.

to be perfectly honest, right now there could be an argument for saying that we'd be better off as a team without those 3 players if the £100m or so had been reinvested in the team, no matter how bad you think rafa was in the market.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Niall K link=topic=41962.msg1178739#msg1178739 date=1285023303]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178736#msg1178736 date=1285022743]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178447#msg1178447 date=1284997169]
'It was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT'

Dreamy types this shit, and wonders why everyone thinks he's retarded.

We lost.

And two years ago, WE FUCKING WON HERE 4-1

Where was your cunty post then?
[/quote]

If we pass the ball like that for the rest of the season we will beat most teams.

If you can't see the positives in our passing then fair enough.

We'll see who is right by seasons end and for the last few years I've been on the money.
[/quote]

Seriously Dreamy and in the nicest possible way. Fuck off.

You called the Keane transfer right and haven't shut the fuck up about it since. Every other season were you banging on about how this was gonna be our year. Then you moved to Australia and your whole world was turned upside down.
[/quote]

Hmmm I called our finished 2 years ago and last season from the very beginning.

But as you were.

And Australia had nothing to do with it, it was Rafa's management.

And yes I believe we will get into the top 4 easily this season.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41962.msg1178747#msg1178747 date=1285026620]

right, so if rafa had still been here we wouldn't have received transfer fees for gerrard, torres and mascherano? fucking hell you're desperate.

to be perfectly honest, right now there could be an argument for saying that we'd be better off as a team without those 3 players if the £100m or so had been reinvested in the team, no matter how bad you think rafa was in the market.
[/quote]

Desperate? What are you on about?

I never said that we'd give our best players away. But they wouldn't be here. And that would have presented a two-fold problem...

1. Rafa's not bought particularly well recently - I would have no confidence that he'd buy the right players, or even address the right problem area (though in that scenario, there's be about seven of them!). And...

2. The bigger problem would be this: Who, exactly, would come to Liverpool, if their biggest name was suddenly Jamie Carragher? Take Gerrard, Torres, Cole away from a team that's already lost Masher and Yossi, and tell me why ANY top player would leave anywhere to play alongside some of the worst LFC players in living memory? Our starting midfield could very realistically been Lucas and Spearing anchoring Aureillo and El Zahr, playing in behind Dirk and N'Gog. Don't tell me that ANYBODY would leave a half decent team to play in THAT side.

To be honest right back, I cannot see the argument that makes THAT Liverpool team a better option that THIS one.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178053#msg1178053 date=1284938201]
Jesus you’d swear we just got spanked 6-0 the way some of you are carrying on.
When the fixtures came in we all knew we had a horrible start on our hands. Yes we all hoped for more out of the 3 big games. But realistically it was always going to be a mountain to climb with a new manager new player and a half fit Torres.
We have played 10 games under Roy with only 1 game with our best 11. We have lost 2 (away to Utd and City) drawn 2 (Arsenal and away to Brum who have an amazing home record) and won 6.
By no means is this all doom and gloom. Some say they want positives? How about this?
Yesterday was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT. No hoof ball no disjointed MF. We lacked a cutting edge with only 1 up front but hopefully Roy saw the difference in having 2 up front even if N’gog offered little he at least created space for Torres by occupying a defender. Yesterday was the first time in 3 years it looks clear that Lucas will only be a squad player from now on. How fantastic is that? Poulsen looked like a half decent footballer yesterday, made some great tackles around the box and passed the ball well.
Raul looks a cut above the shit we are used to and was a hairs length away from making it 3-2.
Cole looked threatening the entire game. I really cannot see why everyone is so doom and gloom. This place stinks of naivety. With this set up we will beat a lot of teams this year. We played some good football yesterday against one of the best teams in the league. We fought back from 2-0 down when nobody gave us a chance. We gave them a hell of a scare and could easily have got something out of the game. We need to drop Maxi for sure. But Babel, N’Gog or Kuyt will easily add to the team instead of him. Make that change and I’d be very happy with our team.
We look like a footballing side again for the first time in years. The results will come and we will get 4th.
I guarantee when we look at the table in 3 months we’ll be nestled in the top 4. Positive signs? Of course there are.
And that’s not even mentioning the exciting youth prospects.

[/quote]

You'll fucking cry once Chelsea batter us 6-0 in the coming fixture boy! The only 4th place we'll get is the bottom four. No chance.

 

[zlatan18]

The way people go on about it, it is asif they thought we had a chance to win the league this season.

 

[erick]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178723#msg1178723 date=1285020748]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178686#msg1178686 date=1285015251]
With potentially gerard and torres leaving as well a mash? can't agree with that neil
[/quote]

And Cole wouldn't be here either.

So our team would have Insua, Lucas, Spearing, El Zahr and N'Gog as mainstays. We'd be nowhere close to 7th.
[/quote]

Hard to say.

Given that Cole was free to talk to other clubs 6 months ago, I don't really think that we approached him only after Rafa was gone. Also, Spurs spent months to talk to him and we can sign him in couple of days after Roy joined?

In addition, Yossi was allowed to leave before last season close. His replacement should be already identified before.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=erick link=topic=41962.msg1178772#msg1178772 date=1285041260]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178723#msg1178723 date=1285020748]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178686#msg1178686 date=1285015251]
With potentially gerard and torres leaving as well a mash? can't agree with that neil
[/quote]

And Cole wouldn't be here either.

So our team would have Insua, Lucas, Spearing, El Zahr and N'Gog as mainstays. We'd be nowhere close to 7th.
[/quote]

Hard to say.

Given that Cole was free to talk to other clubs 6 months ago, I don't really think that we approached him only after Rafa was gone. Also, Spurs spent months to talk to him and we can sign him in couple of days after Roy joined?

In addition, Yossi was allowed to leave before last season close. His replacement should be already identified before.



[/quote]

Welcome to the site, mate.

Yep, it's only my opinion, but there's no doubt in my mind that Cole simply wouldn't have come here , whether approached or not, had Rafa still been here. He'd have taken the departure of Gerrard and Torres as a signal that Rafa wasn't good with top players.

 

[erick]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178773#msg1178773 date=1285041714]
[quote author=erick link=topic=41962.msg1178772#msg1178772 date=1285041260]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178723#msg1178723 date=1285020748]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178686#msg1178686 date=1285015251]
With potentially gerard and torres leaving as well a mash? can't agree with that neil
[/quote]

And Cole wouldn't be here either.

So our team would have Insua, Lucas, Spearing, El Zahr and N'Gog as mainstays. We'd be nowhere close to 7th.
[/quote]

Hard to say.

Given that Cole was free to talk to other clubs 6 months ago, I don't really think that we approached him only after Rafa was gone. Also, Spurs spent months to talk to him and we can sign him in couple of days after Roy joined?

In addition, Yossi was allowed to leave before last season close. His replacement should be already identified before.



[/quote]

Welcome to the site, mate.

Yep, it's only my opinion, but there's no doubt in my mind that Cole simply wouldn't have come here , whether approached or not, had Rafa still been here. He'd have taken the departure of Gerrard and Torres as a signal that Rafa wasn't good with top players.
[/quote]

Thx!! 😀 😀

I just don't think Cole is Roy's signing. He may be Rafa's, may be Purslow's, given that short period of time after Roy joined.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

I'm sure this has already been said.

Rafa Benitez was given 6 fucking years. He fucked it up. How much more time did you want? If I'm backing something i'd like to see the results/fruits of that in my life time.

He came here with a 5 year plan to get Liverpool back to the top. He was backed financially. He was given one additional year, but he managed to sap the confidence out of the squad and lose the dressing-room/back room staff. His relationship with a lot of his own players was fractious. He was hated by almost every other manager in the league. His reputation had taken a huge beating in the media and he was losing the plot big time with his own back room staff, which was evident from the way he was pointing fingers for the mistakes he had committed. He had to go....Are you still debating that?

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41962.msg1178784#msg1178784 date=1285046836]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

I'm sure this has already been said.

Rafa Benitez was given 6 fucking years. He fucked it up. How much more time did you want? If I'm backing something i'd like to see the results/fruits of that in my life time.

He came here with a 5 year plan to get Liverpool back to the top. He was backed financially. He was given one additional year, but he managed to sap the confidence out of the squad and lose the dressing-room/back room staff. His relationship with a lot of his own players was fractious. He was hated by almost every other manager in the league. His reputation had taken a huge beating in the media and he was losing the plot big time with his own back room staff, which was evident from the way he was pointing fingers for the mistakes he had committed. He had to go....Are you still debating that?
[/quote]

He just want fast attacking fullback. How long have you been in the forum again?? You should know by now.

 

[kingjulian]

What?

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41962.msg1178814#msg1178814 date=1285050567]
What?
[/quote]

I wouldn't even bother.

(But thanks for confirming for me that the post made no sense. I was wondering if I was just reading it wrong since I'm tired.)

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41962.msg1178814#msg1178814 date=1285050567]
What?
[/quote]

Sit down.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41962.msg1178819#msg1178819 date=1285050712]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41962.msg1178814#msg1178814 date=1285050567]
What?
[/quote]

I wouldn't even bother.

(But thanks for confirming for me that the post made no sense. I was wondering if I was just reading it wrong since I'm tired.)
[/quote]

You'd have to understand glockenspiel to decipher that.

He was telling Julian not to bother arguing the point with Neil since Neil only cares about 'Attacking fullbacks'.

Makes no sense, of course.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41962.msg1178832#msg1178832 date=1285051621]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41962.msg1178819#msg1178819 date=1285050712]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41962.msg1178814#msg1178814 date=1285050567]
What?
[/quote]

I wouldn't even bother.

(But thanks for confirming for me that the post made no sense. I was wondering if I was just reading it wrong since I'm tired.)
[/quote]

You'd have to understand glockenspiel to decipher that.

He was telling Julian not to bother arguing the point with Neil since Neil only cares about 'Attacking fullbacks'.

Makes no sense, of course.
[/quote]

That was about the only reasonable interpretation I could come up with either but it was still a bit dim.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178757#msg1178757 date=1285033144]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41962.msg1178747#msg1178747 date=1285026620]

right, so if rafa had still been here we wouldn't have received transfer fees for gerrard, torres and mascherano? fucking hell you're desperate.

to be perfectly honest, right now there could be an argument for saying that we'd be better off as a team without those 3 players if the £100m or so had been reinvested in the team, no matter how bad you think rafa was in the market.
[/quote]

Desperate? What are you on about?

I never said that we'd give our best players away. But they wouldn't be here. And that would have presented a two-fold problem...

1. Rafa's not bought particularly well recently - I would have no confidence that he'd buy the right players, or even address the right problem area (though in that scenario, there's be about seven of them!). And...

2. The bigger problem would be this: Who, exactly, would come to Liverpool, if their biggest name was suddenly Jamie Carragher? Take Gerrard, Torres, Cole away from a team that's already lost Masher and Yossi, and tell me why ANY top player would leave anywhere to play alongside some of the worst LFC players in living memory? Our starting midfield could very realistically been Lucas and Spearing anchoring Aureillo and El Zahr, playing in behind Dirk and N'Gog. Don't tell me that ANYBODY would leave a half decent team to play in THAT side.

To be honest right back, I cannot see the argument that makes THAT Liverpool team a better option that THIS one.
[/quote]


i don't really want to go down the route of debating the pros and cons of selling those 3, as it's hypothetical and a side issue, but although it would certainly have been a huge gamble i think there's plenty to say for it (not least torres's fitness and gerrard's age), and that you certainly completely overstate its impact on our ability to attract replacements. we didn't have much going for us in 99 but houllier sill produced a great summer of signings. we're still liverpool, and benitez would still have had plenty of pull, especially with european players.

the fact is, to suggest that we'd have been playing with el zhar and spearing as fixtures in the first team had rafa stayed smacks of total hysteria, and all your all-caps screeching above tends to confirm the impression.

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178733#msg1178733 date=1285022348]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=41962.msg1178314#msg1178314 date=1284982502]
We don't have a chance in hell of finishing 4th this season.
[/quote]

So short sighted
[/quote]

Hahaha.

I'm with Anita here, by the way.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41962.msg1179056#msg1179056 date=1285069290]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178757#msg1178757 date=1285033144]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41962.msg1178747#msg1178747 date=1285026620]

right, so if rafa had still been here we wouldn't have received transfer fees for gerrard, torres and mascherano? fucking hell you're desperate.

to be perfectly honest, right now there could be an argument for saying that we'd be better off as a team without those 3 players if the £100m or so had been reinvested in the team, no matter how bad you think rafa was in the market.
[/quote]

Desperate? What are you on about?

I never said that we'd give our best players away. But they wouldn't be here. And that would have presented a two-fold problem...

1. Rafa's not bought particularly well recently - I would have no confidence that he'd buy the right players, or even address the right problem area (though in that scenario, there's be about seven of them!). And...

2. The bigger problem would be this: Who, exactly, would come to Liverpool, if their biggest name was suddenly Jamie Carragher? Take Gerrard, Torres, Cole away from a team that's already lost Masher and Yossi, and tell me why ANY top player would leave anywhere to play alongside some of the worst LFC players in living memory? Our starting midfield could very realistically been Lucas and Spearing anchoring Aureillo and El Zahr, playing in behind Dirk and N'Gog. Don't tell me that ANYBODY would leave a half decent team to play in THAT side.

To be honest right back, I cannot see the argument that makes THAT Liverpool team a better option that THIS one.
[/quote]


i don't really want to go down the route of debating the pros and cons of selling those 3, as it's hypothetical and a side issue, but although it would certainly have been a huge gamble i think there's plenty to say for it (not least torres's fitness and gerrard's age), and that you certainly completely overstate its impact on our ability to attract replacements. we didn't have much going for us in 99 but houllier sill produced a great summer of signings. we're still liverpool, and benitez would still have had plenty of pull, especially with european players.

the fact is, to suggest that we'd have been playing with el zhar and spearing as fixtures in the first team had rafa stayed smacks of total hysteria, and all your all-caps screeching above tends to confirm the impression.
[/quote]

Erm... ok.

First "desperate". Now "screeching" and "total hysteria".

Whatever you say...

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178736#msg1178736 date=1285022743]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178447#msg1178447 date=1284997169]
'It was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT'

Dreamy types this shit, and wonders why everyone thinks he's retarded.

We lost.

And two years ago, WE FUCKING WON HERE 4-1

Where was your cunty post then?
[/quote]

If we pass the ball like that for the rest of the season we will beat most teams.

If you can't see the positives in our passing then fair enough.

We'll see who is right by seasons end and for the last few years I've been on the money.
[/quote]

Seriously... how are we going to beat teams by passing the ball sideways and backwards between our midfield and defence.

It's "great" that we achieved the high standard of retaining the football in the areas Utd players weren't intensely pressuring us, but you'll note that the minute we got anywhere near the attacking third of the pitch we were beyond useless. 0 shots on target and 6 shots off target, half of which were from outside the area.

We're not going to spank other teams playing like we did againjst Man Utd because we had absolutely no width and no urgencey about our build up play and we spent most of the time passing the ball in the middle third and defensive third of the pitch.

We did well to get back in to the game, but if our masterplan is to pass the ball about in our own half until someone fouls Torres in or around the box then it's going to be a very long season.

 

[manwithnoname]

We did well to get back in to the game, but if our masterplan is to pass the ball about in our own half until someone fouls Torres in or around the box then it's going to be a very long season.

Relax. It's Dreamy. He is not very bright.

Although depressingly, that two-line summary *is* Hodgson's masterplan.

 

[Woland]

It was the also second time we scored more than once against them there in 15 years.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1179812#msg1179812 date=1285148600]
It was the also second time we scored more than once against them there in 15 years.
[/quote]

I think I'd prefer to win. Or get a point. But that's just me, you and Dreamy can wank eachother off about how great we were.