Gutted but excited about our changes for a return to the top 4

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178522#msg1178522 date=1285003427]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178513#msg1178513 date=1285002983]
Right, it's quite simple: if you think Roy Hodgson is a better manager than Rafael Benitez, then you have no business supporting Liverpool, or ever watching a game of football
[/quote]

I genuinely think that Hodgson will do better in the league this season than Rafa did in his first season, or his last.
[/quote]

Agreed. Doesn't mean that he's "better".

 

[Woland]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178524#msg1178524 date=1285003555]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178522#msg1178522 date=1285003427]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178513#msg1178513 date=1285002983]
Right, it's quite simple: if you think Roy Hodgson is a better manager than Rafael Benitez, then you have no business supporting Liverpool, or ever watching a game of football
[/quote]

I genuinely think that Hodgson will do better in the league this season than Rafa did in his first season, or his last.
[/quote]

roy 'may' do better than rafa's last season i.e. 6th or higher, but better than his 1st, 4th or higher? I doubt it...
[/quote]

Surely you mean joint 5th with Bolton?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178533#msg1178533 date=1285003972]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178524#msg1178524 date=1285003555]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178522#msg1178522 date=1285003427]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178513#msg1178513 date=1285002983]
Right, it's quite simple: if you think Roy Hodgson is a better manager than Rafael Benitez, then you have no business supporting Liverpool, or ever watching a game of football
[/quote]

I genuinely think that Hodgson will do better in the league this season than Rafa did in his first season, or his last.
[/quote]

roy 'may' do better than rafa's last season i.e. 6th or higher, but better than his 1st, 4th or higher? I doubt it...
[/quote]

Surely you mean joint 5th with Bolton?
[/quote]

rafa's last season: 7th
so, 6th or higher needed

rafa's first season: 5th
so, 4th or higher needed

 

[manwithnoname]

What are you on about you fat spaz?

 

[Woland]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178536#msg1178536 date=1285004204]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178533#msg1178533 date=1285003972]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178524#msg1178524 date=1285003555]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178522#msg1178522 date=1285003427]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178513#msg1178513 date=1285002983]
Right, it's quite simple: if you think Roy Hodgson is a better manager than Rafael Benitez, then you have no business supporting Liverpool, or ever watching a game of football
[/quote]

I genuinely think that Hodgson will do better in the league this season than Rafa did in his first season, or his last.
[/quote]

roy 'may' do better than rafa's last season i.e. 6th or higher, but better than his 1st, 4th or higher? I doubt it...
[/quote]

Surely you mean joint 5th with Bolton?
[/quote]

rafa's last season: 7th
so, 6th or higher needed

rafa's first season: 5th
so, 4th or higher needed
[/quote]

OK, or you know, higher than 63 or 58 points.

58 points in his first season. That would have had us 9th last season. Everyone was wondering who the fuck we'd hired til we beat Juve. I can't imagine the shit you were coming out with then.

 

[manwithnoname]

He'd just won two La Liga titles in a league including Madrid and Barca, and won a UEFA cup

The budgie-faced geriatric has just come 12th in the Premiership and never won anything, despite being about 100 years older than Benitez

It doesn't require amazing cognitive skills to work out which is a better manager, and which was given longer to prove himself at his new club

 

[Woland]

I'm not knocking Benitez or his CV or what he achieved, I'm just saying that anyone already kicking off about Hodgson because they think he should have completely fixed all Benitez's final season fuck ups in the first five games is without doubt a thick twat.

 

[manwithnoname]

He's a mediocre manager who has 3 decades worth of mediocrity to back up this assertion

And all he do at Liverpool is be mediocre

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178506#msg1178506 date=1285002688]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41962.msg1178491#msg1178491 date=1285001877]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178456#msg1178456 date=1284998562]
people can post mails in an attempt to get us excited and that is to be admired but it's hard to get excited about a manager who is has been mediocre in the past, is showing mediocrity now and to make matters worse the people telling me to give the manager time and 'the liverpool way' are the same people who wanted shot of the previous manager after essentially one bad season. I'm having trouble mustering loyalty towards a manager appointed by a board I hate and want gone.
[/quote]

There's so much wrong with this post i just don't know where to start.

The manager is mediocre .... right ... based on what exactly ? Has he failed everywhere he has been ?

You don't want to give him a sixth league game yet "one bad season" wasn't reason to give Rafa the boot. If you want to get into the reason Rafa got the boot it has a lot more to do with it than "one bad season".

And you hate the Board ? Care to explain why ? Is it because they've just gone about doing their jobs while ignoring all the idiots ?
[/quote]

okay, in england in the LEAGUE roy has been mediocre, admittedly he peformanced miracles in europe but our number one priority is the league and that is what I am judging him on. you say has he failed? the criteria of success and failure are different for the clubs roy has managed in the past and the club he is in charge of now.

the reason rafa was sacked was down to more than one bad season? what are you going on about ros? rafa was sacked because we finished outside the CL, simple as that. you mean to tell me if rafa had finished 4th he still would have been released? okay then...

okay, it's more accurate to say I hate the owners I just included the entire board in that. what I will say though is, do you think roy was in employed purely on football reasons? i.e. they (the board) looked at our squad, our resources, the level we need to reach to keep our remaining stars and pay the ever increasing interest (a minimum of 4th), then looked at all the possible managers from all over the world, some of whom would walk over broken glass to join us as we still have a big name and a massive fan base, and the best person to do the job was roy hodgson?
[/quote]

Name those managers.

What other reasons was he appointed for ? Is this the conspiracy theory that falls apart quite quickly when logic is brought to bear on it ?

As most people are aware at this stage, average league position has a strong correlation with the size of the wage bill. So any discussion of a managers ability needs to factor that in.

Last season we finished 7th with a wage bill of 100.5m. We won 63 points.
Fulham finished 12th with a wage bill of 46m. They won 46 points.

Given that management is all about getting the most out of resources available to you then I think you can work out which one did a better job quite easily.

 

[manwithnoname]

I thought being a football fan was all about winning matches and trophies, rather than 'managing expectations within the constraints of the wage bill'

 

[Woland]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178562#msg1178562 date=1285006786]
I thought being a football fan was all about winning matches and trophies, rather than 'managing expectations within the constraints of the wage bill'
[/quote]

Yeah, and Shanks had a fantastic win percentage of 36 when he was at Huddersfield. Get fucking real.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178562#msg1178562 date=1285006786]
I thought being a football fan was all about winning matches and trophies, rather than 'managing expectations within the constraints of the wage bill'
[/quote]

It is. But you can only win the league if you have a wage bill that's in the top four in the league.

Roy hasn't been at a club with that luxury before, Benitez has and fucked it up such that our hands are pretty much tied for a few years to come.

We're going to be shit for while, so strap yourself in and enjoy the ride.

 

[manwithnoname]

What the *fuck* are people bringing up Shanks for as some kind of palsied defence of Old Uncle Budgie-face?


Shankly was a hungry manager that we took a big gamble on to transform our club.

I advocated taking a similar gamble with Benitez's replacement

Instead we went for an OAP mediocrity as a 'safe pair of hands'

But I can see that they're analagous. If you're fucking stupid.

 

[Woland]

I wasn't defending Roy, I was responding to your silly point that finance shouldn't matter.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178542#msg1178542 date=1285004758]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178536#msg1178536 date=1285004204]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178533#msg1178533 date=1285003972]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178524#msg1178524 date=1285003555]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41962.msg1178522#msg1178522 date=1285003427]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178513#msg1178513 date=1285002983]
Right, it's quite simple: if you think Roy Hodgson is a better manager than Rafael Benitez, then you have no business supporting Liverpool, or ever watching a game of football
[/quote]

I genuinely think that Hodgson will do better in the league this season than Rafa did in his first season, or his last.
[/quote]

roy 'may' do better than rafa's last season i.e. 6th or higher, but better than his 1st, 4th or higher? I doubt it...
[/quote]

Surely you mean joint 5th with Bolton?
[/quote]

rafa's last season: 7th
so, 6th or higher needed

rafa's first season: 5th
so, 4th or higher needed
[/quote]

OK, or you know, higher than 63 or 58 points.

58 points in his first season. That would have had us 9th last season. Everyone was wondering who the fuck we'd hired til we beat Juve. I can't imagine the shit you were coming out with then.
[/quote]

if you could go back and look at my post (on koptalk) I was saying look at benitez' cv the man deserves time, with regards to roy's cv its mediocre (no offence).

 

[Squiggles]

Wasn't Blackburn's wage bill pretty high at the time?

I was only young but I thought they were really rich back in the day.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Blackburn were deemed 'rich' at the time, though when they eventually sold shearer and sutton that recouped more than what their entire squad cost I believe.

I can't see chelsea or city achieving that!

 

[spider-Neil]

when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

Understand the theory to your argument, but do you still get credit for "turning it around", when it's you who f#$!ed up a bloody good situation in the first place?

Also, if Roy's only ever had mid-table mediocrity to manage, why are you holding mid-table finishes against him? Has he ever dramatically dissapointed, anywhere he's been?

 

[Rafiagra]

Benitez had to go. He had dragged everyone, supporters included, down. His dispute with the owners as well as losing the dressing room made his position untenable.

Hodgson was never going to set pulses racing but he was the obvious choice. Plus, so far, he's set about making the obvious changes our team needed, apart from getting another striker in (but we know he tried to do that too)

Hodgson was never going to come in and get everyone playing out of their skins but he will galvanise us as a team.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

We gave benitez 6 seasons. We declined dramatically in his last year while playing shite football. We had a fleeting phase where we looked sensational. I liked rafa and wanted him to suceed but he had his time and failed so can we please move on

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178609#msg1178609 date=1285010030]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

Understand the theory to your argument, but do you still get credit for "turning it around", when it's you who f#$!ed up a bloody good situation in the first place?

Also, if Roy's only ever had mid-table mediocrity to manage, why are you holding mid-table finishes against him? Has he ever dramatically dissapointed, anywhere he's been?


[/quote]

I'm saying why did we hire a midtable manager in the first place. were were lots of people saying no top class manager would touch us, I think that true of josé and obviously the manager ALREADY in top class positions but outside of that very elite group there are managers with far better CV's than roy we could have gone after. did we even APPROACH these people?

 

[Fabio]

Like who neil?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178612#msg1178612 date=1285010224]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

We gave benitez 6 seasons. We declined dramatically in his last year while playing shite football. We had a fleeting phase where we looked sensational. I liked rafa and wanted him to suceed but he had his time and failed so can we please move on
[/quote]

we gave rafa 6 season in which time he won a europen cup, an fa cup, reached a european final AGAIN and in the year before he was sacked he finished 2nd in the league above chelsea and a mere 4 points of manager. the ONE season we he didn't qualify for the CL (league position or winning it) he was fucked off...and replaced with roy hodgson.

gracious...

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178618#msg1178618 date=1285010505]
Like who neil?
[/quote]

Exactly. Who? I've already asked who these managers are. So have other posters.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178618#msg1178618 date=1285010505]
Like who neil?
[/quote]

okay,
the manager of atletico madrid I'm pretty sure would have joined,
pellegrini, I'm pretty sure would have joined
this is obviously speculation but it seems we didn't even approach this managers as roy was the first and only choice. WHY?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178620#msg1178620 date=1285010631]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178612#msg1178612 date=1285010224]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

We gave benitez 6 seasons. We declined dramatically in his last year while playing shite football. We had a fleeting phase where we looked sensational. I liked rafa and wanted him to suceed but he had his time and failed so can we please move on
[/quote]

we gave rafa 6 season in which time he won a europen cup, an fa cup, reached a european final AGAIN and in the year before he was sacked he finished 2nd in the league above chelsea and a mere 4 points of manager. the ONE season we he didn't qualify for the CL (league position or winning it) he was fucked off...and replaced with roy hodgson.

gracious...
[/quote]

His last three seasons with us were dissapointing. He lost the players. It was time. And most everybody who's been paying attention to LFC knows it.

 

[Fabio]

Neil stats are great for proving a point but also remove other valid points

Besides 1 season we did not look like challenging for the title, which is the one we want. It's been said on here in the past we went too defensive against some teams, subs were poor etc. I'm sure in the history books people might be confused by the decision but for the ones who watched it was some of the most dire football to be watched. Besides the 6 months people go on about

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178628#msg1178628 date=1285010863]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178620#msg1178620 date=1285010631]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178612#msg1178612 date=1285010224]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41962.msg1178602#msg1178602 date=1285009569]
when rafa was having a torrid first season you could look at the man's past and say he's turned things around in the past (1st then 5th then 1st at valencia) then at liverpool you could look at his high league finishes, a slump and then a high league finish. there was previous with rafa turning things around. roy has been a football manager for how long, and has pretty much had mediocre finishes in the league with the exception of sweden, can you look at his past and say with confidence roy can turn things around?

as I said, people will come out with 'he's been in the job 5 minutes give him time ffs' did those same people have the same patience with rafa, a manager who is PROVEN ability to turn bad runs around?
[/quote]

We gave benitez 6 seasons. We declined dramatically in his last year while playing shite football. We had a fleeting phase where we looked sensational. I liked rafa and wanted him to suceed but he had his time and failed so can we please move on
[/quote]

we gave rafa 6 season in which time he won a europen cup, an fa cup, reached a european final AGAIN and in the year before he was sacked he finished 2nd in the league above chelsea and a mere 4 points of manager. the ONE season we he didn't qualify for the CL (league position or winning it) he was fucked off...and replaced with roy hodgson.

gracious...
[/quote]

His last three seasons with us were dissapointing. He lost the players. It was time. And most everybody who's been paying attention to LFC knows it.
[/quote]

how were his last three seasons disappointing? as for losing the players that's an easy excuse for players that wanted out. rafa left and yossi (for example) still fucked off.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41962.msg1178629#msg1178629 date=1285010997]


Besides 1 season we did not look like challenging for the title, which is the one we want. [/quote]

the people expecting that had unrealistic targets.