Government set to reject Everton's Kirkby stadium plans
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[quote author=vantage link=topic=37438.msg999105#msg999105 date=1259192473]
Hmmm, so they were able to raise enough to get a £400m project off the ground but we aren't?
[/quote]
Only cos Tesco's were fronting it in order to build a HUGE superstore on the same land & anoth on the land upon which Goodison now stands.
Hmmm, so they were able to raise enough to get a £400m project off the ground but we aren't?
[/quote]
Only cos Tesco's were fronting it in order to build a HUGE superstore on the same land & anoth on the land upon which Goodison now stands.
I'd be up for it, as I'm sure would the yanks, but a shared stadium will never happen. It sounds great in theory - for financial reasons, blah, but there's too much history, tradition, emotion and bitterness to overcome. Oh yeah, and both clubs are skint.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
[quote author=Blaffa Blenitez link=topic=37438.msg999377#msg999377 date=1259232420]
I'd be up for it, as I'm sure would the yanks, but a shared stadium will never happen. It sounds great in theory - for financial reasons, blah, but there's too much history, tradition, emotion and bitterness to overcome. Oh yeah, and both clubs are skint.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
[/quote]
Everton missed a trick when they could of gone in with the council for the kings dock development. It would of really revitalize the club having stadium in slap bang middle of the city centre next to the albert docks. If we had to leave anfield I would of liked that stadium too because you can start a new history there. Not in the middle of nowhere attached to a tescos.
I'd be up for it, as I'm sure would the yanks, but a shared stadium will never happen. It sounds great in theory - for financial reasons, blah, but there's too much history, tradition, emotion and bitterness to overcome. Oh yeah, and both clubs are skint.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
[/quote]
Everton missed a trick when they could of gone in with the council for the kings dock development. It would of really revitalize the club having stadium in slap bang middle of the city centre next to the albert docks. If we had to leave anfield I would of liked that stadium too because you can start a new history there. Not in the middle of nowhere attached to a tescos.
Everton are the epitome of shite - at every level. If we're going to move or share a stadium I wouldn't mind a brand new location, preferably on the docks.
[quote author=Blaffa Blenitez link=topic=37438.msg999413#msg999413 date=1259233774]
Everton are the epitome of shite - at every level. If we're going to move or share a stadium I wouldn't mind a brand new location, preferably on the docks.
[/quote]
But what colour would the seats be? Maybe, as a mixture of red and blue, they could use the council purple. The same as liverpool wheelie bins.
Everton are the epitome of shite - at every level. If we're going to move or share a stadium I wouldn't mind a brand new location, preferably on the docks.
[/quote]
But what colour would the seats be? Maybe, as a mixture of red and blue, they could use the council purple. The same as liverpool wheelie bins.
[quote author=Blaffa Blenitez link=topic=37438.msg999377#msg999377 date=1259232420]
I'd be up for it, as I'm sure would the yanks, but a shared stadium will never happen. It sounds great in theory - for financial reasons, blah, but there's too much history, tradition, emotion and bitterness to overcome. Oh yeah, and both clubs are skint.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
[/quote]
You'd be up for a shared stadium? Ahh yes, of course. With entry determined on your "scouseness". I can see why you'd like that one.
I'd be up for it, as I'm sure would the yanks, but a shared stadium will never happen. It sounds great in theory - for financial reasons, blah, but there's too much history, tradition, emotion and bitterness to overcome. Oh yeah, and both clubs are skint.
I'd love to see the shite struggling to fill a huge 70 K stadium every other week mind.
[/quote]
You'd be up for a shared stadium? Ahh yes, of course. With entry determined on your "scouseness". I can see why you'd like that one.
S
Squiggles
Guest
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd close the curtains".
A shared stadium makes logical sense for many other teams and cities, but we have such an immense history and rivalry with Everton, this is one of those issues when we have to be unrelenting on. It might make more sense now more than ever, given reccession and the lack of credit and capital available to us. But times will get better financially and when they do, we'll have own home, eventually.
A shared stadium makes logical sense for many other teams and cities, but we have such an immense history and rivalry with Everton, this is one of those issues when we have to be unrelenting on. It might make more sense now more than ever, given reccession and the lack of credit and capital available to us. But times will get better financially and when they do, we'll have own home, eventually.
How would it make sense to us anyway? WTF would the blueslime bring to the table? All they'd be doing is taking a socking great free ride on our backs. No thanks.
And when they get relegated, we're supposed to share with a championship team?
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37438.msg999670#msg999670 date=1259256065]
How would it make sense to us anyway? WTF would the blueslime bring to the table? All they'd be doing is taking a socking great free ride on our backs. No thanks.
[/quote]
I think the government are prepared to help with a joint stadium, or at least they were.
Hypothetically we probably could build a joint stadium together or make it a realistic prospect. They're not that poor.
How would it make sense to us anyway? WTF would the blueslime bring to the table? All they'd be doing is taking a socking great free ride on our backs. No thanks.
[/quote]
I think the government are prepared to help with a joint stadium, or at least they were.
Hypothetically we probably could build a joint stadium together or make it a realistic prospect. They're not that poor.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37438.msg999549#msg999549 date=1259249273]
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd close the curtains".
A shared stadium makes logical sense for many other teams and cities, but we have such an immense history and rivalry with Everton, this is one of those issues when we have to be unrelenting on. It might make more sense now more than ever, given reccession and the lack of credit and capital available to us. But times will get better financially and when they do, we'll have own home, eventually.
[/quote]
Yep. Sharing with them only makes sense for them as, they don't even have the piss to put in the non-existent pot.
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd close the curtains".
A shared stadium makes logical sense for many other teams and cities, but we have such an immense history and rivalry with Everton, this is one of those issues when we have to be unrelenting on. It might make more sense now more than ever, given reccession and the lack of credit and capital available to us. But times will get better financially and when they do, we'll have own home, eventually.
[/quote]
Yep. Sharing with them only makes sense for them as, they don't even have the piss to put in the non-existent pot.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
Inter want out of the San Siro last I heard.
Edit - It was a while ago:
MILAN, 15 October 2008 - Massimo Moratti is no doubt going to be the brains behind Inter's big move. Approval of his plans for the club's very own stadium is just around the corner. After careful examination and meticulous planning, the financial backing should confirmed by the end of the year, even by early December. Then, all going well, the Nerazzurri will be pensioning off San Siro from the 2012-2013 season.
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
Inter want out of the San Siro last I heard.
Edit - It was a while ago:
MILAN, 15 October 2008 - Massimo Moratti is no doubt going to be the brains behind Inter's big move. Approval of his plans for the club's very own stadium is just around the corner. After careful examination and meticulous planning, the financial backing should confirmed by the end of the year, even by early December. Then, all going well, the Nerazzurri will be pensioning off San Siro from the 2012-2013 season.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
What the fuck does Gough know about it? Seriously.
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
What the fuck does Gough know about it? Seriously.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37438.msg999682#msg999682 date=1259256585]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37438.msg999670#msg999670 date=1259256065]
How would it make sense to us anyway? WTF would the blueslime bring to the table? All they'd be doing is taking a socking great free ride on our backs. No thanks.
[/quote]
I think the government are prepared to help with a joint stadium, or at least they were.
Hypothetically we probably could build a joint stadium together or make it a realistic prospect. They're not that poor.
[/quote]
There was some talk of the North-West Development Agency backing the idea originally, but (a) I'm not sure whether that extended to actually putting their hands in their pockets and (b) I very much doubt it would do so now, with the public finances in meltdown.
As for the clubs themselves, Everton's debt is probably less than ours, but so (by a very long way) is their ability to make inroads into it, hence also to raise cash. With the NWDA involved, there's a risk we'd end up having to shoulder the lion's share of the cost but not take a corresponding slice of the benefit. In the timeless words of Shakespeare: F'ck. That.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37438.msg999670#msg999670 date=1259256065]
How would it make sense to us anyway? WTF would the blueslime bring to the table? All they'd be doing is taking a socking great free ride on our backs. No thanks.
[/quote]
I think the government are prepared to help with a joint stadium, or at least they were.
Hypothetically we probably could build a joint stadium together or make it a realistic prospect. They're not that poor.
[/quote]
There was some talk of the North-West Development Agency backing the idea originally, but (a) I'm not sure whether that extended to actually putting their hands in their pockets and (b) I very much doubt it would do so now, with the public finances in meltdown.
As for the clubs themselves, Everton's debt is probably less than ours, but so (by a very long way) is their ability to make inroads into it, hence also to raise cash. With the NWDA involved, there's a risk we'd end up having to shoulder the lion's share of the cost but not take a corresponding slice of the benefit. In the timeless words of Shakespeare: F'ck. That.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999866#msg999866 date=1259280040]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
To his credit, Jason Cundy, who I normally can't stick, wasn't having any of it.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
To his credit, Jason Cundy, who I normally can't stick, wasn't having any of it.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999866#msg999866 date=1259280040]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
Yep, nothing worse that some idiot parroting generic media bollix.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
Yep, nothing worse that some idiot parroting generic media bollix.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=37438.msg999871#msg999871 date=1259280519]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999866#msg999866 date=1259280040]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
Yep, nothing worse that some idiot parroting generic media bollix.
[/quote]
'Liverpool were a better team under Phil Thompson than Houllier'
MMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999866#msg999866 date=1259280040]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
Yep, nothing worse that some idiot parroting generic media bollix.
[/quote]
'Liverpool were a better team under Phil Thompson than Houllier'
MMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Getting back to the topic at hand...
This is a massive blow to them. do they even have an alternative option to this Kirkby one? Ive not heard of any back-up plans anyway. The way I read it, this stadum was only going to cost them something like 75M, most of which they'd recoup easily from the sale of Goodison and a year or two in the new ground.
I've read through a bit of the Inquiry's reasons for rejection, and it looks pretty damning. I doubt they'll even bother to challenege them, given how forlorn the whole project looks.
In a way I feel sorry for Moyes. He's obviously been pishing into the wind for years, with at least the expectancy that brighter things would be coming. He doesn't even have that to look forward to now. They'll do well to finish midtable for the next half dozen years.
In short, this decision has absolutely fucked them.
This is a massive blow to them. do they even have an alternative option to this Kirkby one? Ive not heard of any back-up plans anyway. The way I read it, this stadum was only going to cost them something like 75M, most of which they'd recoup easily from the sale of Goodison and a year or two in the new ground.
I've read through a bit of the Inquiry's reasons for rejection, and it looks pretty damning. I doubt they'll even bother to challenege them, given how forlorn the whole project looks.
In a way I feel sorry for Moyes. He's obviously been pishing into the wind for years, with at least the expectancy that brighter things would be coming. He doesn't even have that to look forward to now. They'll do well to finish midtable for the next half dozen years.
In short, this decision has absolutely fucked them.
Whilst not necessarily in favour of ground-sharing, if someone was to table some pros and cons then would there be a 'con' other than "we don't want to, we're LFC etc....."? I'd assume that there would be a lot of 'pros'.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999947#msg999947 date=1259291505]In a way I feel sorry for Moyes. He's obviously been pishing into the wind for years, with at least the expectancy that brighter things would be coming. He doesn't even have that to look forward to now. They'll do well to finish midtable for the next half dozen years.
In short, this decision has absolutely fucked them.
[/quote]
I read an interview after the Hull game this week where he admitted they could be dragged into a relegation battle. His morale is fucked.
In short, this decision has absolutely fucked them.
[/quote]
I read an interview after the Hull game this week where he admitted they could be dragged into a relegation battle. His morale is fucked.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37438.msg999950#msg999950 date=1259292789]
Whilst not necessarily in favour of ground-sharing, if someone was to table some pros and cons then would there be a 'con' other than "we don't want to, we're LFC etc....."? I'd assume that there would be a lot of 'pros'.
[/quote]
I wouldn't. Not for us anyway.
Whilst not necessarily in favour of ground-sharing, if someone was to table some pros and cons then would there be a 'con' other than "we don't want to, we're LFC etc....."? I'd assume that there would be a lot of 'pros'.
[/quote]
I wouldn't. Not for us anyway.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37438.msg999866#msg999866 date=1259280040]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
It's what Andy Gray says in a smug self satisfied voice every fucking time someone scores against us from a set piece, whilst chuckling. Cunt.
The same voice he uses at 60 minutes "oh, & wonder who Rafa will bring on now, I've got a funny feeling he'll bring someone on now" or similar. Shut up you fucking cock.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37438.msg999687#msg999687 date=1259256812]
Darren Gough has just said (On Talksport) that both AC and Inter Milan are bigger than Liverpool and they've seen the sense in sharing a ground.
[/quote]
One of the sutpidest things I've ever heard that.
Which is impressive given that some fucking idiot standing near me in a bar the other night said... "Well, I've never seen a zone score a goal!". It was all I could do to not galss the fucking cock.
[/quote]
It's what Andy Gray says in a smug self satisfied voice every fucking time someone scores against us from a set piece, whilst chuckling. Cunt.
The same voice he uses at 60 minutes "oh, & wonder who Rafa will bring on now, I've got a funny feeling he'll bring someone on now" or similar. Shut up you fucking cock.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37438.msg1000015#msg1000015 date=1259314008]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37438.msg999950#msg999950 date=1259292789]
Whilst not necessarily in favour of ground-sharing, if someone was to table some pros and cons then would there be a 'con' other than "we don't want to, we're LFC etc....."? I'd assume that there would be a lot of 'pros'.
[/quote]
I wouldn't. Not for us anyway.
[/quote]
I dunno, financially there would be, but only if you looked at things short term.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=37438.msg999950#msg999950 date=1259292789]
Whilst not necessarily in favour of ground-sharing, if someone was to table some pros and cons then would there be a 'con' other than "we don't want to, we're LFC etc....."? I'd assume that there would be a lot of 'pros'.
[/quote]
I wouldn't. Not for us anyway.
[/quote]
I dunno, financially there would be, but only if you looked at things short term.
Sharing a stadium would in theory make some sense, but not a lot. The costs of building would be split - and if Everton are even looking into having a new stadium they can't be THAT skint - and if you can afford it then during a recession is the best time for building,
There is the argument that I have heard as well that the running costs of the stadium would also be split, meaning that more money could be spent elsewhere, especially with increased revenue from ticket sales.
However, there are counter arguments of course. We would find it a lot easier to fill a bigger stadium week in week out than Everton would. So would they be that much better off than they are now, having to pay out half the costs for a stadium that they are not getting maximum return on in terms of ticket revenue?
The running cost argument is also slightly flawed in another way. Presumably the costs will be higher as the stadium will be used every single week. And what might sound like a minor point, but actually is far from it, is that this is bound to have a terrible effect on the state of the pitch. By the end of the season these days pitches often look a bit fucked so imagine what it would be like if they saw twice the amount of games?
Then there is the final point. We don't want to share with them and they don't want to share with us. Not the most logical of point one might argue, but a point nonetheless and probably the most important one ultimately.
There is the argument that I have heard as well that the running costs of the stadium would also be split, meaning that more money could be spent elsewhere, especially with increased revenue from ticket sales.
However, there are counter arguments of course. We would find it a lot easier to fill a bigger stadium week in week out than Everton would. So would they be that much better off than they are now, having to pay out half the costs for a stadium that they are not getting maximum return on in terms of ticket revenue?
The running cost argument is also slightly flawed in another way. Presumably the costs will be higher as the stadium will be used every single week. And what might sound like a minor point, but actually is far from it, is that this is bound to have a terrible effect on the state of the pitch. By the end of the season these days pitches often look a bit fucked so imagine what it would be like if they saw twice the amount of games?
Then there is the final point. We don't want to share with them and they don't want to share with us. Not the most logical of point one might argue, but a point nonetheless and probably the most important one ultimately.
"Tony Barrett (The Times)
At 8pm on Wednesday night a ground share was not on the agenda for anyone on Merseyside. By 8am the following morning - it was the only talking point in town.
How did that happen? It’s not as if Anfield and Goodison had been razed to the ground by fans angry at the way their teams are letting them down.
The only thing that changed the agenda was someone at Everton had “indicated†to someone at Sky Sports News that they would now be willing to consider moving into a stadium with Liverpool.
Why ever would anyone have done that? Could it be, and forgive by cynicism, that the Everton hierarchy knew they were in for an absolute and richly deserved kicking for their second failed stadium project in less than a decade and decided to pull a flanker?
On the day the city of Liverpool’s World Cup bid was sent to London – possibly the most embarrassing thing to travel on a train between the two cities since Jimmy Tarbuck was drawn to the capital by the bright lights of the Palladium – how better to divert attention from your own failings than to let it be known to the media that there could be a radical solution to the ongoing problems of both clubs and the city itself, one which is absolutely guaranteed to steal headlines?
The day after Everton’s latest stadium dreams went belly up should have been a day for recriminations. It should have been the day when Bill Kenwright, the Everton owner and chairman, had to answer searching questions about the future of his club having said on so many previous occasions that only a move to a hideous soulless bowl built outside the boundaries of a city which they should never even have considered leaving would give them any hope of recapturing past glories.
It should have been a day when searching questions were asked about what this setback means to David Moyes, who has performed near miracles in defying the kind of lack of finance which would have crippled lesser managers to produce the only team in the Premier League which regularly out performs its wage bill, but who is now faced with the realisation that there is no immediate prospect of Everton having the kind of stadium which would produce revenue in keeping with his ambition.
It should have been a day when Everton’s board had to answer searching questions about why it sanctioned the spending of millions of pounds pressing ahead with proposals that appeared to be clearly in contravention of planning policy, as consistently argued by the Keep Everton In Our City campaign group which did such magnificent work on behalf of the tens of thousands of fans who were quite rightly opposed to the idea of Everton quitting the city in which they belong.
But we got none of this. Instead, someone says the magic words “ground share†and hey presto, the media dances to a different tune and the Everton hierarchy is off the hook.
Now, had the renewed possibility of a shared stadium been discussed with anyone at Liverpool or the city council before Sky were briefed about it and before Robert Elstone, the Everton chief executive, gave an interview about it on the platform of Lime Street Station, the latest talk of two of sports biggest rivals moving in together would have much more credibility.
Not that it deserves any, though. Liverpool and Everton Football Clubs deserve stadia of their own. They deserve it to enrich their separate identities. They deserve it for their sense of individuality. They deserve it for their size and stature in the game. And, most of all they deserve it for their fans.
Both clubs have consistently tried and failed to build much needed new stadia over the last ten years but this does not equate to a justification for ground sharing. Rather, it is a condemnation of a chronic lack of leadership and vision in the boardrooms of Everton and Liverpool and at a city council which has floundered around while others, for example Manchester with the City of Manchester Stadium, have delivered. Not being able to build a ground in one of the world’s most football mad cities is only one step away from being unable to organise a piss up in a brewery.
It is this which rankles most when fans of both clubs are told, usually by people who have never in their lives paid to sit, never mind stand, in either the Gwladys Street or the Kop, that a ground share is the only thing that can save their clubs. What they really should be asking is when will these great clubs and this great city be given the leadership they need to come up with a plan and the accompanying finance to build stadiums of their own?
It is well known that Liverpool’s supporters are being let down by their owners. There is no longer even any debate about the fact, for that is exactly what it is, that the ongoing reign of Tom Hicks and George Gillett has been an absolute disaster for the club, on and off the pitch. But they were also let down in the past and you would have to go back to the days of John Smith and Peter Robinson to find the last time when Liverpool were led with the kind of vision that facilitates regular success and genuine stability.
And yet their fans are consistently told that a shared stadium with their biggest rivals which will be the panacea to all their ills. If only the wider football world were as concerned with the imposters in the Anfield boardroom as they are with their zealous desire to see Liverpool and Everton subjected to the kind of experiment which no other leading clubs in the country are ever asked to perform.
If Liverpool and Everton ever bought in to the shared stadium dream of others they would put the full stop on an entire generation which has been characterised by a lack of ambition and foresight. The message that they would send out would be that while both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Newcastle United, Sunderland, Celtic and Rangers can have their own stadia, the Merseyside clubs can’t.
The argument that keeps getting shoved down the throats of fans on Merseyside is that if it’s good enough for the people of Milan then it is good enough for them. Besides the fact that anyone who has ever been to the San Siro will have been confronted by a pitch as patchy as Gavin McCann’s head, the more important thing to bear in mind is that Inter Milan are now working towards moving out and building a ground of their own. Why? Simply because the shared arrangements at the San Siro do not allow them to maximise their commercial revenue from corporate facilities.
Juventus have already given up on sharing with Torino and are in the process of building a new stadium of their own on the sight of the much maligned Stadio Delli Alpi. Torino, meanwhile, have already moved permanently to the Stadio Olimpico.
If the great municipal shared stadium experiment that began in Italy around the time of the World Cup in 1990 is being held up as an example it should be to warn clubs not to follow their lead.
This is without even getting into the fact that Everton and Liverpool currently have totally different needs. That’s a debate that should be left for another day, one which will hopefully never come when those who preach that sharing is the only way two of Europe’s greatest clubs can survive are holding away.
Sacrificing heritage, individuality and identity at the altar of finance should not even be an option. Liverpool and Everton are unique sporting institutions and they deserve to be treated as such, not shunted together without any consideration for their past.
It is men with vision that both sets of supporters need and deserve, not a stadium which neither of them could claim as their own. If that day ever comes then it would be one of the saddest days in the history of football in England and on Merseyside in particular. "
End of.
At 8pm on Wednesday night a ground share was not on the agenda for anyone on Merseyside. By 8am the following morning - it was the only talking point in town.
How did that happen? It’s not as if Anfield and Goodison had been razed to the ground by fans angry at the way their teams are letting them down.
The only thing that changed the agenda was someone at Everton had “indicated†to someone at Sky Sports News that they would now be willing to consider moving into a stadium with Liverpool.
Why ever would anyone have done that? Could it be, and forgive by cynicism, that the Everton hierarchy knew they were in for an absolute and richly deserved kicking for their second failed stadium project in less than a decade and decided to pull a flanker?
On the day the city of Liverpool’s World Cup bid was sent to London – possibly the most embarrassing thing to travel on a train between the two cities since Jimmy Tarbuck was drawn to the capital by the bright lights of the Palladium – how better to divert attention from your own failings than to let it be known to the media that there could be a radical solution to the ongoing problems of both clubs and the city itself, one which is absolutely guaranteed to steal headlines?
The day after Everton’s latest stadium dreams went belly up should have been a day for recriminations. It should have been the day when Bill Kenwright, the Everton owner and chairman, had to answer searching questions about the future of his club having said on so many previous occasions that only a move to a hideous soulless bowl built outside the boundaries of a city which they should never even have considered leaving would give them any hope of recapturing past glories.
It should have been a day when searching questions were asked about what this setback means to David Moyes, who has performed near miracles in defying the kind of lack of finance which would have crippled lesser managers to produce the only team in the Premier League which regularly out performs its wage bill, but who is now faced with the realisation that there is no immediate prospect of Everton having the kind of stadium which would produce revenue in keeping with his ambition.
It should have been a day when Everton’s board had to answer searching questions about why it sanctioned the spending of millions of pounds pressing ahead with proposals that appeared to be clearly in contravention of planning policy, as consistently argued by the Keep Everton In Our City campaign group which did such magnificent work on behalf of the tens of thousands of fans who were quite rightly opposed to the idea of Everton quitting the city in which they belong.
But we got none of this. Instead, someone says the magic words “ground share†and hey presto, the media dances to a different tune and the Everton hierarchy is off the hook.
Now, had the renewed possibility of a shared stadium been discussed with anyone at Liverpool or the city council before Sky were briefed about it and before Robert Elstone, the Everton chief executive, gave an interview about it on the platform of Lime Street Station, the latest talk of two of sports biggest rivals moving in together would have much more credibility.
Not that it deserves any, though. Liverpool and Everton Football Clubs deserve stadia of their own. They deserve it to enrich their separate identities. They deserve it for their sense of individuality. They deserve it for their size and stature in the game. And, most of all they deserve it for their fans.
Both clubs have consistently tried and failed to build much needed new stadia over the last ten years but this does not equate to a justification for ground sharing. Rather, it is a condemnation of a chronic lack of leadership and vision in the boardrooms of Everton and Liverpool and at a city council which has floundered around while others, for example Manchester with the City of Manchester Stadium, have delivered. Not being able to build a ground in one of the world’s most football mad cities is only one step away from being unable to organise a piss up in a brewery.
It is this which rankles most when fans of both clubs are told, usually by people who have never in their lives paid to sit, never mind stand, in either the Gwladys Street or the Kop, that a ground share is the only thing that can save their clubs. What they really should be asking is when will these great clubs and this great city be given the leadership they need to come up with a plan and the accompanying finance to build stadiums of their own?
It is well known that Liverpool’s supporters are being let down by their owners. There is no longer even any debate about the fact, for that is exactly what it is, that the ongoing reign of Tom Hicks and George Gillett has been an absolute disaster for the club, on and off the pitch. But they were also let down in the past and you would have to go back to the days of John Smith and Peter Robinson to find the last time when Liverpool were led with the kind of vision that facilitates regular success and genuine stability.
And yet their fans are consistently told that a shared stadium with their biggest rivals which will be the panacea to all their ills. If only the wider football world were as concerned with the imposters in the Anfield boardroom as they are with their zealous desire to see Liverpool and Everton subjected to the kind of experiment which no other leading clubs in the country are ever asked to perform.
If Liverpool and Everton ever bought in to the shared stadium dream of others they would put the full stop on an entire generation which has been characterised by a lack of ambition and foresight. The message that they would send out would be that while both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Newcastle United, Sunderland, Celtic and Rangers can have their own stadia, the Merseyside clubs can’t.
The argument that keeps getting shoved down the throats of fans on Merseyside is that if it’s good enough for the people of Milan then it is good enough for them. Besides the fact that anyone who has ever been to the San Siro will have been confronted by a pitch as patchy as Gavin McCann’s head, the more important thing to bear in mind is that Inter Milan are now working towards moving out and building a ground of their own. Why? Simply because the shared arrangements at the San Siro do not allow them to maximise their commercial revenue from corporate facilities.
Juventus have already given up on sharing with Torino and are in the process of building a new stadium of their own on the sight of the much maligned Stadio Delli Alpi. Torino, meanwhile, have already moved permanently to the Stadio Olimpico.
If the great municipal shared stadium experiment that began in Italy around the time of the World Cup in 1990 is being held up as an example it should be to warn clubs not to follow their lead.
This is without even getting into the fact that Everton and Liverpool currently have totally different needs. That’s a debate that should be left for another day, one which will hopefully never come when those who preach that sharing is the only way two of Europe’s greatest clubs can survive are holding away.
Sacrificing heritage, individuality and identity at the altar of finance should not even be an option. Liverpool and Everton are unique sporting institutions and they deserve to be treated as such, not shunted together without any consideration for their past.
It is men with vision that both sets of supporters need and deserve, not a stadium which neither of them could claim as their own. If that day ever comes then it would be one of the saddest days in the history of football in England and on Merseyside in particular. "
End of.
- Status
