Glen Johnson

[LadyRed]

[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=35341.msg928591#msg928591 date=1250719870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35341.msg928590#msg928590 date=1250719789]
I think Reina is our most handsome player.
[/quote]

So does my wife.
[/quote]

Reina probably is our best looking player now.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=35341.msg928844#msg928844 date=1250759486]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=35341.msg928591#msg928591 date=1250719870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35341.msg928590#msg928590 date=1250719789]
I think Reina is our most handsome player.
[/quote]

So does my wife.
[/quote]

Reina probably is our best looking player now.
[/quote]

Probably yeah

Glen Johnson is a toilet seat robbing pikey from Dartford. Good player though.

 

[Rafiagra]

Talking about attacking fullbacks, lets not forget that Insua should have scored as well.

That would have been both of our fulbacks on the scoresheet.

Hopefully, we've got those positions sorted for the next decade.

 

[rebel23]

Alves is the only type of fullback ive seen do what Johnson did last night i.e practicallly running things from fullback and getting stuck in.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=35341.msg928844#msg928844 date=1250759486]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=35341.msg928591#msg928591 date=1250719870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35341.msg928590#msg928590 date=1250719789]
I think Reina is our most handsome player.
[/quote]

So does my wife.
[/quote]

Reina probably is our best looking player now.
[/quote]

Bit chubby-faced though, no? And no hair.

FWIW, I think Johnson has the *potential* to be the best RB in the world. He may not have Alves's dead-ball delivery, but he's bigger and stronger and younger, probably a better tackler and certainly better in the air.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Great game by GJ last night.

Maybe we should wait a while before going OTT about how good he is though.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35341.msg928880#msg928880 date=1250761097]
Alves is the only type of fullback ive seen do what Johnson did last night i.e practicallly running things from fullback and getting stuck in.

[/quote]

What?

That's a good fullback's job. Doesn't hurt when we are intentionally overloading that side to exploit the oppositions weakness.

Pascal Chimbonda looked like jesus playing fullback for half a season. Calm down.

 

[rebel23]

Johnson has done more in 2 games attacking wise than Arbeloa or Finnan would do all season

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35341.msg928965#msg928965 date=1250766279]
Johnson has done more in 2 games attacking wise than Arbeloa or Finnan would do all season
[/quote]

Horseshit, Finnan consistently provided excellent crossing. Torres wasn't there at the time, so many went completely wasted. Finnan easily had the best cross on the team, perfect out swingers delivered to the strikers head (then delivered tamely into the keeper's arms).

Johnson has far more going forward than Finnan, but you are getting hysterical.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35341.msg928974#msg928974 date=1250766882]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35341.msg928965#msg928965 date=1250766279]
Johnson has done more in 2 games attacking wise than Arbeloa or Finnan would do all season
[/quote]

Horseshit, Finnan consistently provided excellent crossing. Torres wasn't there at the time, so many went completely wasted. Finnan easily had the best cross on the team, perfect out swingers delivered to the strikers head (then delivered tamely into the keeper's arms).

Johnson has far more going forward than Finnan, but you are getting hysterical.
[/quote]

?

they both got a couple assists a year and a goal if they were lucky

 

[madmax]

Finnan was very good at delivering a dangerous ball from a deep position.

Don't mess with Bourne.

 

[spider-Neil]

finann was a fantastic crosser of the ball left or right footed. he was extremely accomplished when he went forwards but was definately more of a defender than an attacker (probably because he didn't want to get caught out of position with his lack of pace to get back).

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35341.msg928982#msg928982 date=1250767307]
finann was a fantastic crosser of the ball left or right footed. he was extremely accomplished when he went forwards but was definately more of a defender than an attacker (probably because he didn't want to get caught out of position with his lack of pace to get back).
[/quote]

It was also part of the team's overall style of play, especially under Houllier, that the full-backs didn't go too far forward.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35341.msg928984#msg928984 date=1250767639]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35341.msg928982#msg928982 date=1250767307]
finann was a fantastic crosser of the ball left or right footed. he was extremely accomplished when he went forwards but was definately more of a defender than an attacker (probably because he didn't want to get caught out of position with his lack of pace to get back).
[/quote]

It was also part of the team's overall style of play, especially under Houllier, that the full-backs didn't go too far forward.

[/quote]

babbel?

 

[singlerider]

The point remains that it was a popular myth that "Finnan was no good going forward".

In actual fact he was very good at it, he just didn't do it often enough

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=35341.msg928993#msg928993 date=1250767983]
The point remains that it was a popular myth that "Finnan was no good going forward".

In actual fact he was very good at it, he just didn't do it often enough
[/quote]

These last few posts on Finnan illustrate perfectly the argument I've tried to make about assists being unreliable as a guide to a players attacking contribution to a team.

 

[doctor_mac]

Yup, absolutely.

*twirls finger beside temple*

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35341.msg929001#msg929001 date=1250768582]
Yup, absolutely.

*twirls finger beside temple*
[/quote]

ah fuck off

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg928998#msg928998 date=1250768324]
These last few posts on Finnan illustrate perfectly the argument I've tried to make about assists being unreliable as a guide to a players attacking contribution to a team.
[/quote]

Jesus you can't let that one go. You are right of course, but the problem with your argument is it seems to be just an obvious tenet of statistics? I mean, isn't the same true of goals scored as well, clean sheets?

Why are you you so singularly obsessed with the assist one? Why do you think its more altered by other factors than these other stats which are bandied about constantly? I'm honestly curious, for some reason.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35341.msg929011#msg929011 date=1250769192]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg928998#msg928998 date=1250768324]
These last few posts on Finnan illustrate perfectly the argument I've tried to make about assists being unreliable as a guide to a players attacking contribution to a team.
[/quote]

Jesus you can't let that one go. You are right of course, but the problem with your argument is it seems to be just an obvious tenet of statistics? I mean, isn't the same true of goals scored as well, clean sheets?

Why are you you so singularly obsessed with the assist one? Why do you think its more altered by other factors than these other stats which are bandied about constantly? I'm honestly curious, for some reason.
[/quote]

You've already mentioned some of the variables that come into it, so there's no need to go into details.

The main reason for my obsession is so many people base their judgments on a midfielder solely on that stat. e.g. Ashley Young - good player, we know that but has become massively overrated and overvalued on the basis of a season where he had 17 assists. Nobody knows how well he played all season long, they just know that stat.

Anyway. I'll never mention it again.

I promise

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg929018#msg929018 date=1250769683]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35341.msg929011#msg929011 date=1250769192]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg928998#msg928998 date=1250768324]
These last few posts on Finnan illustrate perfectly the argument I've tried to make about assists being unreliable as a guide to a players attacking contribution to a team.
[/quote]

Jesus you can't let that one go. You are right of course, but the problem with your argument is it seems to be just an obvious tenet of statistics? I mean, isn't the same true of goals scored as well, clean sheets?

Why are you you so singularly obsessed with the assist one? Why do you think its more altered by other factors than these other stats which are bandied about constantly? I'm honestly curious, for some reason.
[/quote]

You've already mentioned some of the variables that come into it, so there's no need to go into details.

The main reason for my obsession is so many people base their judgments on a midfielder solely on that stat. e.g. Ashley Young - good player, we know that but has become massively overrated and overvalued on the basis of a season where he had 17 assists. Nobody knows how well he played all season long, they just know that stat.

Anyway. I'll never mention it again.

I promise
[/quote]

Yea, I guess a lot of it has to do with fantasy football and CM. I just can't be arsed with it, if I was interested in looking at statistics and optimising them, I'd probably like baseball, and I'd much rather try to fit my head in a blender than watch a baseball game. I'm barely aware of these statistics in the first place, let alone enough to form any judgments on them. I wouldn't even know Ashley Young had 17 assists in the first place, I'd just notice over a few game that I thought he was useful.

I think you should move onto goals scored myself. I remember people discussing in incredible detail the differences between a goal every three games striker, a goal every two games striker etc. It started to get broken down into tenths. It made me ill.

Robbie Keane got an assist AND a goal over the weekend... what a player he is.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Goals scored is a pretty incontrovertible statistic. Almost as important as points won or trophies won.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35341.msg929035#msg929035 date=1250771116]
Goals scored is a pretty incontrovertible statistic. Almost as important as points won or trophies won.

[/quote]Haha.

 

[Spionkop69]

Tony Pulis got it right with what he said after the game.

He said they struggled because when our wide men (Kuyt and Yossi) came inside then both our full backs overlapped and looked to join the attack at every opportunity. So we sucked in their full backs allowing some space.

Mascher dropped back and anchored in front of the CB's too.

GJ had a good game last night. If he continues I will get the same haircut to honour him.

 

[Squiggles]

You can see both sides to the Finnan debate, even if Rebels view is characteristically extreme.

As has been said, Finnan was the most able crosser of the ball we had on our books for quite some time, and if we had better strikers he would have had significantly had more assists.

But then you can forget systems and 'licence to roam', there's just no way Finnan would've ever been able to do what Johnson did last night. Brilliant and underrated defender, great crosser, no doubt. But he didn't have the pace, skills, and creativity of Johnson; which as we saw last night, can prove vital to winning game against the more defensively minded teams.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35341.msg929046#msg929046 date=1250771794]


He said they struggled because when our wide men (Kuyt and Yossi) came inside then both our full backs overlapped and looked to join the attack at every opportunity. So we sucked in their full backs allowing some space.

[/quote]

which is what I've said for ages. further more you can get the best fullbacks in the business for less than 20m but if have solid fullbacks but want the best wingers in the business to offset that you are talking double that. water under the bridge but we seriously missed a trick by not pouring our transfer budget on alves.

 

[Squiggles]

As Ryan says though, Spidey, the real test for Johnson is yet to come.

I just reckon his defensive flaws may be overlooked as we go into the season because of some flash moments - whereas solid and defensively excellent players, like Finnan, get there 'flaws' overstated.

Great start for him, but titles are built on a solid defence, and he must prove he can also be part of that. I'm not saying he won't, I think he's excellent and I'm a huge admirer, but it's one big wait and see.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35341.msg929060#msg929060 date=1250773236]
You can see both sides to the Finnan debate, even if Rebels view is characteristically extreme.

As has been said, Finnan was the most able crosser of the ball we had on our books for quite some time, and if we had better strikers he would have had significantly had more assists.

But then you can forget systems and 'licence to roam', there's just no way Finnan would've ever been able to do what Johnson did last night. Brilliant and underrated defender, great crosser, no doubt. But he didn't have the pace, skills, and creativity of Johnson; which as we saw last night, can prove vital to winning game against the more defensively minded teams.
[/quote]

I do think we have had too many players (including the great Alonso) who don't score or assist enough over the course of a season, including our centre backs as well and Arbeloa and Finnan were in that mould. With Johnson and I hope Aquilani they will give us more assists and goals than we had previously and this from the team that scored most the league last year, should be interesting

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35341.msg929098#msg929098 date=1250777526]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35341.msg929060#msg929060 date=1250773236]
You can see both sides to the Finnan debate, even if Rebels view is characteristically extreme.

As has been said, Finnan was the most able crosser of the ball we had on our books for quite some time, and if we had better strikers he would have had significantly had more assists.

But then you can forget systems and 'licence to roam', there's just no way Finnan would've ever been able to do what Johnson did last night. Brilliant and underrated defender, great crosser, no doubt. But he didn't have the pace, skills, and creativity of Johnson; which as we saw last night, can prove vital to winning game against the more defensively minded teams.
[/quote]

I do think we have had too many players (including the great Alonso) who don't score or assist enough over the course of a season, including our centre backs as well and Arbeloa and Finnan were in that mould. With Johnson and I hope Aquilani they will give us more assists and goals than we had previously and this from the team that scored most the league last year, should be interesting


[/quote]

Agree 100%

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg929018#msg929018 date=1250769683]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35341.msg929011#msg929011 date=1250769192]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35341.msg928998#msg928998 date=1250768324]
These last few posts on Finnan illustrate perfectly the argument I've tried to make about assists being unreliable as a guide to a players attacking contribution to a team.
[/quote]

Jesus you can't let that one go. You are right of course, but the problem with your argument is it seems to be just an obvious tenet of statistics? I mean, isn't the same true of goals scored as well, clean sheets?

Why are you you so singularly obsessed with the assist one? Why do you think its more altered by other factors than these other stats which are bandied about constantly? I'm honestly curious, for some reason.
[/quote]

You've already mentioned some of the variables that come into it, so there's no need to go into details.

The main reason for my obsession is so many people base their judgments on a midfielder solely on that stat. e.g. Ashley Young - good player, we know that but has become massively overrated and overvalued on the basis of a season where he had 17 assists. Nobody knows how well he played all season long, they just know that stat.

Anyway. I'll never mention it again.

I promise
[/quote]

Thing is Ross, assists are only unreliable when it's a lack of them that is being used as a measurement.

For instance "Player X only got 2 assists last season" - doesn't tell the whole story, for all we know they could have been behind much of the build up, I don't know how many assists Xabi got last year, but it probably doesn't reflect the contribution he made to the team.

However, when it's "Ashley Young got 17 assists that season" - again, it doesn't tell us the whole story, but what it does tell us is that he set up 17 goals. And that's a worthwhile story in itself, no?