Gerrard

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086903#msg1086903 date=1271065803]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086576#msg1086576 date=1271005843]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086543#msg1086543 date=1271003199]
I think he's tired of playing with useless cunts like N'Gog. He's deserved far more as a footballer than we've been able to provide.
[/quote]

gerrard has excelled in worse squads so that's not a valid excuse
[/quote] Yes, and I think he's sick and tired of having to do so.
[/quote]

and that would be fair enough if he wasn't the highest paid player in the squad.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39780.msg1086915#msg1086915 date=1271067018]

I can absolutely assure you that every manager in the world would've build a team that would be very reliant on Steven Gerrard as he's been hands down one of the best plalyers in the world for at least the past five years.

And as we haven't had the money to buy anyone in his class (apart from Torres who's been perma-unjured all Season) it's kind of obvious that we would suffer greatly the day that he stops delivering the goods.

I know you're frolicking in Rafa's wrong-doings but it's blatantly obvious how some refuses to see that there's more to our current situation than just Rafa loosing the grip.
[/quote]

No need to get all snippy about it old bean. You are the one who said we are too reliant on Gerrard. I was just agreeing with your point.

I see that you are still flogging the point about Benitez having no money to death so will just give you a couple of transfer facts to mull over:

- If you look at our top 15 transfers of all time Benitez has bought 10 of them, including the entire top 5
- Benitez has bought our joint most expensive keeper ever, our most expensive right back ever, our most expensive left back ever, our two most expensive centre backs ever, our two most expensive centre midfielders ever, our two most expensive wingers ever and our two most expensive strikers ever. All of this to the tune of about 140million, all but 2 of whom are still at the club and none of whom he has been forced to sell.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086916#msg1086916 date=1271067762]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086903#msg1086903 date=1271065803]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086576#msg1086576 date=1271005843]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086543#msg1086543 date=1271003199]
I think he's tired of playing with useless cunts like N'Gog. He's deserved far more as a footballer than we've been able to provide.
[/quote]

gerrard has excelled in worse squads so that's not a valid excuse
[/quote] Yes, and I think he's sick and tired of having to do so.
[/quote]

and that would be fair enough if he wasn't the highest paid player in the squad.
[/quote] He wants a league title, Spider and it's looking increasing likely that he's not going to get one with us. Looking at his bank balance will not comfort him.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086926#msg1086926 date=1271070242]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086916#msg1086916 date=1271067762]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086903#msg1086903 date=1271065803]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086576#msg1086576 date=1271005843]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086543#msg1086543 date=1271003199]
I think he's tired of playing with useless cunts like N'Gog. He's deserved far more as a footballer than we've been able to provide.
[/quote]

gerrard has excelled in worse squads so that's not a valid excuse
[/quote] Yes, and I think he's sick and tired of having to do so.
[/quote]


[/quote] He wants a league title, Spider and it's looking increasing likely that he's not going to get one with us. Looking at his bank balance will not comfort him.
[/quote]

2 points

1. he is being payed a ridiculous amount of money
2. he is the captain

and as such 'he can't be asked because he is surrounded by dross' doesn't cut it as an excuse.
and that would be fair enough if he wasn't the highest paid player in the squad.

 

[Squiggles]

Ok Neil. Whatever.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086930#msg1086930 date=1271070817]
Ok Neil. Whatever.
[/quote]

okay, why isn't nando going 'fucking hell we're shit, I can't be asked'.
I think gerrard's problems are in his mind, maybe he is 'unconsciously' saving himself for the world cup, maybe he doesn't want to risk an injury because no way on this earth will he make the next world cup.

 

[the_khl]

Old bean?

Anyways no-one could've foreseen that Gerrard's influence would decline so rapidly as has happened this Season - even before he got to celebrate his 30s birthday, not even you I reckon. It seems a bit rich-ey to claim otherwise to be honest.

And yes Rafa has spend a lot of money but that's a rather meaningsless argument without looking at our opponents spending power and squads as well. When Rafa took over from Houllier he had a mostly uphill task lying ahead of him as we were trailing our fiercest rivals good. Rivals who's probably spend at least the same ammount or more (wages included) at the same time as Rafa's been around, yet still we have closed some of the gap at least.

We have probably performed above our leves in a few Seasons under Rafa whereas this one is probably the first one where we've been underperforming. It'll happen from time to time and Gerrard's poor form all Season has not helped at all - neither has Torres injuries.

With regards to last Summers transfers. People on here had been saying for ages that we should buy class instead of quantity. Two £18M players in sted of four or five £8M ones. That's the road Rafa's taken but that's a much more bumpy road. I for one still would prefer that one though as we're not going anywhere but sideways buying mediocrity mostly. Johnson has been a major improvement wheread Aquilani has been a poor buy - so far.

He has however showed signs of good things to come from his foot. He could turn out to be a Liverpoool-player in the long run but we're suffering at this stage. Why so?

In my opnion mostly because the owners decided to cash in on our transferdealings withing the past 1½-year. Rafa hasn't even been allowed to spend the recouped Keane-money which in my opinion is one of the reason why we're suddenly stsanding still/going backwards. What kind of ownership is that at one of the biggest clubs in the world who hasn't won a trophy in soon to be 20 years?

It's sad.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086932#msg1086932 date=1271071235]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086930#msg1086930 date=1271070817]
Ok Neil. Whatever.
[/quote]

okay, why isn't nando going 'fucking hell we're shit, I can't be asked'.
I think gerrard's problems are in his mind, maybe he is 'unconsciously' saving himself for the world cup, maybe he doesn't want to risk an injury because no way on this earth will he make the next world cup.
[/quote]
Without knowing all the details I think you're right it's mentally somethings has changed.

I don't think it has got to do with anything slightly football-related mind.

The bar-brawl and the court-trial has taken it's toll I'm sure and add to this his apparent domestic problems (pending divorce or something) and he's been tested rather severely this year. You simply can't neglect the influence of life happening outside the football-pitch. We are talking about humans after all and when you're unbalanced either at home or work it'll influent the other. At least that's what most people would experience no matter how less or much money they are paid.

Maybe he's a bit frustrated to constantly having to cope without Torres, maybe he misses Xabi too, but I don't think that's main factor nor is his age.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39780.msg1086933#msg1086933 date=1271071666]
Old bean?

Anyways no-one could've foreseen that Gerrard's influence would decline so rapidly as has happened this Season - even before he got to celebrate his 30s birthday, not even you I reckon. It seems a bit rich-ey to claim otherwise to be honest.

And yes Rafa has spend a lot of money but that's a rather meaningsless argument without looking at our opponents spending power and squads as well. When Rafa took over from Houllier he had a mostly uphill task lying ahead of him as we were trailing our fiercest rivals good. Rivals who's probably spend at least the same ammount or more (wages included) at the same time as Rafa's been around, yet still we have closed some of the gap at least.

We have probably performed above our leves in a few Seasons under Rafa whereas this one is probably the first one where we've been underperforming. It'll happen from time to time and Gerrard's poor form all Season has not helped at all - neither has Torres injuries.

With regards to last Summers transfers. People on here had been saying for ages that we should buy class instead of quantity. Two £18M players in sted of four or five £8M ones. That's the road Rafa's taken but that's a much more bumpy road. I for one still would prefer that one though as we're not going anywhere but sideways buying mediocrity mostly. Johnson has been a major improvement wheread Aquilani has been a poor buy - so far.

He has however showed signs of good things to come from his foot. He could turn out to be a Liverpoool-player in the long run but we're suffering at this stage. Why so?

In my opnion mostly because the owners decided to cash in on our transferdealings withing the past 1½-year. Rafa hasn't even been allowed to spend the recouped Keane-money which in my opinion is one of the reason why we're suddenly stsanding still/going backwards. What kind of ownership is that at one of the biggest clubs in the world who hasn't won a trophy in soon to be 20 years?

It's sad.

[/quote]

Alright alright, I don't criticise the way you speak do I?

No, noone could have seen the way Gerrard's influence would have declined but maybe someone who sees him in training everyday and who casts himself as a master tactician and master at planning might have had some concerns that a player who is relied upon so heavily on the field for pretty much everything might not be able to do so forever? Just a thought.

I don't think it is a meaningless argument at all. Actually it was a statement of fact that you have chosen to defend against as an argument. You speak of our rivals and how far behind we were when Benitez took over as if we were miles behind. Actually we weren't at all. In Houllier's last season we were 4th.

As I have said in the past are the wage bills and transfer spends of United, Chelsea and Arsenal responsible for us struggling in 6th place? Are Man City's new owners to blame for us losing 10 games (so far) in the league this season? No and no.

And its lovely how you keep harking back to the argument about how Benitez was 'not allowed' to reinvest the Keane money, completely disregarding the fact that it was Benitez who was allowed to spend 20 fucking million on the cunt in the first place and it his choice to sent him back to Spurs within the year

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=39780.msg1086943#msg1086943 date=1271073531]

And its lovely how you keep harking back to the argument about how Benitez was 'not allowed' to reinvest the Keane money, completely disregarding the fact that it was Benitez who was allowed to spend 20 fucking million on the cunt in the first place and it his choice to sent him back to Spurs within the year
[/quote]

well, no arguement there, except he made a mistake, realised he'd made a mistake, moved quickly to correct the mistake and then found he'd been fucked over.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086945#msg1086945 date=1271074111]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=39780.msg1086943#msg1086943 date=1271073531]

And its lovely how you keep harking back to the argument about how Benitez was 'not allowed' to reinvest the Keane money, completely disregarding the fact that it was Benitez who was allowed to spend 20 fucking million on the cunt in the first place and it his choice to sent him back to Spurs within the year
[/quote]

well, no arguement there, except he made a mistake, realised he'd made a mistake, moved quickly to correct the mistake and then found he'd been fucked over.
[/quote]

Which is an admirable quality of course if you do so once or twice but if you do so every single year it suggests someone who, rather than being decisive and quick to act to correct problems, just doesn't particularly know what he is doing.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39780.msg1086932#msg1086932 date=1271071235]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39780.msg1086930#msg1086930 date=1271070817]
Ok Neil. Whatever.
[/quote]

okay, why isn't nando going 'fucking hell we're shit, I can't be asked'.
I think gerrard's problems are in his mind, maybe he is 'unconsciously' saving himself for the world cup, maybe he doesn't want to risk an injury because no way on this earth will he make the next world cup.
[/quote] Because he's just arrived in comparison to Gerrard. And he's not the best example given he left Atletico for the very reasons I cite. Gerrard is also rumoured to be living apart from his wife, so that's bound to have a impact.

 

[Peatcheo]

Can everyone fuck off with all this Gerrard bashing. Ok he is not having a great season the man himself has admitted this and has stated he is trying to improve. It seems there is a new thread everyday having snipes and jibes at our captain. This player carried us through the hard times and up until this season has scored double figures and has got assists in double figures in most of the recent campaigns. Give him a break for fucks sake!

 

[franklyfrank]

He's put in some shocking performance patches, more so his attitude and leadership qualities have been way off what is required.

Dress it up whatever way you want, make excuses for him but deep down we all know he's let us down massively this season.

 

[Richey]

Was it ever established if FranklyFrank is actually Marky? I don't recall Marky being particularly anto-Gerrard.

A poster who is a cross between Marky and Kanwar is quite a scary prospect

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39780.msg1086967#msg1086967 date=1271077917]
He's put in some shocking performance patches, more so his attitude and leadership qualities have been way off what is required.

Dress it up whatever way you want, make excuses for him but deep down we all know he's let us down massively this season.
[/quote]

So it merrits a new thread slating him every day?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=39780.msg1086971#msg1086971 date=1271078167]
Was it ever established if FranklyFrank is actually Marky? I don't recall Marky being particularly anto-Gerrard.
[/quote]

Things/Opinions can change I suppose.

 

[franklyfrank]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39780.msg1086973#msg1086973 date=1271078218]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39780.msg1086967#msg1086967 date=1271077917]
He's put in some shocking performance patches, more so his attitude and leadership qualities have been way off what is required.

Dress it up whatever way you want, make excuses for him but deep down we all know he's let us down massively this season.
[/quote]

So it merrits a new thread slating him every day?
[/quote]

i haven't started a new thread slating him every day ???

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39780.msg1086973#msg1086973 date=1271078218]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39780.msg1086967#msg1086967 date=1271077917]
He's put in some shocking performance patches, more so his attitude and leadership qualities have been way off what is required.

Dress it up whatever way you want, make excuses for him but deep down we all know he's let us down massively this season.
[/quote]

So it merrits a new thread slating him every day?
[/quote]
I'm not on a mission to slate him at all.

I was merely pointing out that he almost hasn't outscored one of our most criticized players this Season in NGog which in my opinion is an absolutely shocking read.

Then I gave a few thoughts on how it could be that he has declined so rapidly.

I'm still 100 pct certain we'll see Gerrard back to his very best once again soon - this is arguably the worst spell in his career for the past 10 years or so but I'm positive he'll come back stronger.

That doesn't change the fact one bit that his demise has had a rather negative inlfuence on our Season as a whole and not exactly helped anyone, from the manager to his teammates.

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39780.msg1086976#msg1086976 date=1271078341]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39780.msg1086973#msg1086973 date=1271078218]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39780.msg1086967#msg1086967 date=1271077917]
He's put in some shocking performance patches, more so his attitude and leadership qualities have been way off what is required.

Dress it up whatever way you want, make excuses for him but deep down we all know he's let us down massively this season.
[/quote]

So it merrits a new thread slating him every day?
[/quote]

i haven't started a new thread slating him every day ???
[/quote]

Not you, I was addressing the site as a whole. Im sick of it!

 

[Squiggles]

He won't come back stronger. He'll be tired and probably injured from the world cup. If he was 22 this would be less of a concern, but he isn't. I suppose a new manager might help.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39780.msg1086965#msg1086965 date=1271077747]
Can everyone fuck off with all this Gerrard bashing. Ok he is not having a great season the man himself has admitted this and has stated he is trying to improve. It seems there is a new thread everyday having snipes and jibes at our captain. This player carried us through the hard times and up until this season has scored double figures and has got assists in double figures in most of the recent campaigns. Give him a break for fucks sake!
[/quote]

Zackerley. It's kind of fashionable for armchair superfan clowns to criticise "the big players" (cf Torres) and heap praise upon the lesser lights, as if it somehow reflects a kind of superior ootballing knowledge and supreme objectivity.

It's a cunt's trick.