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Ex-Liverpool boss Benitez wanted back at Valencia

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Exactly V.

He is a self absorbed, stubborn manager who consistently lied to fans and dragged the clubs name through the mud , all the while negotiating with Juve and Inter Milan about their jobs behind our backs and then holding out for a 6m pay off.

Very likeable sort.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300446#msg1300446 date=1300283385]
Exactly V.

He is a self absorbed, stubborn manager who consistently lied to fans and dragged the clubs name through the mud , all the while negotiating with Juve and Inter Milan about their jobs behind our backs and then holding out for a 6m pay off.

Very likeable sort.
[/quote]
Remind me of his lies again....
 
Here's a recent example:

You cannot bring in two or three top-class players if you don't have the money. You have to sell. We sold Xabi Alonso and bought Glen Johnson, Alberto Aquilani and Sotirios Kyrgiakos. We [should have] had money but I couldn't use it because we had to meet the interest payments."
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=44572.msg1300444#msg1300444 date=1300283201]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=44572.msg1300443#msg1300443 date=1300283015]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=44572.msg1300436#msg1300436 date=1300281811]
I hope he does well if he goes back. I'l never forget Istanbul.
[/quote]

This.

Ultimately he got a side, his side within points of wining the league.

He's won the Cl, la liga to boot, to suggest he's not up to it is a bit folly.

He's just massively stubborn and it cost him.

good luck to the man, he's also massively likable.

[/quote]

Yes, but y'know - he wasn't good enough for us.
[/quote]

I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300449#msg1300449 date=1300283925]
Here's a recent example:

You cannot bring in two or three top-class players if you don't have the money. You have to sell. We sold Xabi Alonso and bought Glen Johnson, Alberto Aquilani and Sotirios Kyrgiakos. We [should have] had money but I couldn't use it because we had to meet the interest payments."
Click to expand...


[/quote]

where's the lie there?
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300452#msg1300452 date=1300284270]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300449#msg1300449 date=1300283925]
Here's a recent example:

You cannot bring in two or three top-class players if you don't have the money. You have to sell. We sold Xabi Alonso and bought Glen Johnson, Alberto Aquilani and Sotirios Kyrgiakos. We [should have] had money but I couldn't use it because we had to meet the interest payments."
Click to expand...


[/quote]

where's the lie there?
[/quote]

And therein lies the problem.

People still believe the bullshit.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300453#msg1300453 date=1300284333]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300452#msg1300452 date=1300284270]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300449#msg1300449 date=1300283925]
Here's a recent example:

You cannot bring in two or three top-class players if you don't have the money. You have to sell. We sold Xabi Alonso and bought Glen Johnson, Alberto Aquilani and Sotirios Kyrgiakos. We [should have] had money but I couldn't use it because we had to meet the interest payments."
Click to expand...


[/quote]

where's the lie there?
[/quote]

And therein lies the problem.

People still believe the bullshit.
[/quote]

It seems you will need to go into more detail into why you think this is a lie
 
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=44572.msg1300454#msg1300454 date=1300284453]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300453#msg1300453 date=1300284333]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300452#msg1300452 date=1300284270]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44572.msg1300449#msg1300449 date=1300283925]
Here's a recent example:

You cannot bring in two or three top-class players if you don't have the money. You have to sell. We sold Xabi Alonso and bought Glen Johnson, Alberto Aquilani and Sotirios Kyrgiakos. We [should have] had money but I couldn't use it because we had to meet the interest payments."
Click to expand...


[/quote]


where's the lie there?
[/quote]

And therein lies the problem.

People still believe the bullshit.
[/quote]

It seems you will need to go into more detail into why you think this is a lie
[/quote]

the only thing can be some problem rosco's got with the interest payment bit, as the rest looks about as factual as it gets.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300465#msg1300465 date=1300286047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
[/quote]

an opinion isn't the same as a fact.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300466#msg1300466 date=1300286243]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300465#msg1300465 date=1300286047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
[/quote]

an opinion isn't the same as a fact.
[/quote]

True, true. I figured that the boundaries of 'FACTS' and opinions blurred a little in the case of Benitez though....

Yes, my opinion is that he was a failure, based on the fact (and yes this IS a fact) that we never became league champions during his time at the club, which was the reason the previous manager got the boot. You can mitigate for that if you like, but if that was the main aim and it wasn't achieved then I would consider it difficult to come to another conclusion.
 
Benitez loves 'facts'.

Shame he can struggle to find them at times.
 
i don't agree that GH was sacked because we didn't win the title.

imo had we won the champions league in 2003 and finished second in the league on goal difference, and won the champions league in 2004 and finished second in the league on goal difference, then he wouldn't have been sacked in the summer of 2004.

imo GH was sacked because he wasn't fucking good enough and because we thought we could get someone better, the same for benitez. the fact that neither won titles doesn't necessarily make them failures as far as i'm concerned.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300472#msg1300472 date=1300286719]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300466#msg1300466 date=1300286243]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300465#msg1300465 date=1300286047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
[/quote]

an opinion isn't the same as a fact.
[/quote]

True, true. I figured that the boundaries of 'FACTS' and opinions blurred a little in the case of Benitez though....

Yes, my opinion is that he was a failure, based on the fact (and yes this IS a fact) that we never became league champions during his time at the club, which was the reason the previous manager got the boot. You can mitigate for that if you like, but if that was the main aim and it wasn't achieved then I would consider it difficult to come to another conclusion.
[/quote]
Can't argue with you regarding the failure part, but you are trivialising it a bit.
The board, Alves, Villa, Owners etc... A lot happened.
If we had Manchester City money in 2005 we probably would have won the league.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300501#msg1300501 date=1300289374]
i don't agree that GH was sacked because we didn't win the title.

imo had we won the champions league in 2003 and finished second in the league on goal difference, and won the champions league in 2004 and finished second in the league on goal difference, then he wouldn't have been sacked in the summer of 2004.

imo GH was sacked because he wasn't fucking good enough and because we thought we could get someone better, the same for benitez. the fact that neither won titles doesn't necessarily make them failures as far as i'm concerned.
[/quote]

That's one way of looking at it.

IMO Houllier improved things from when he took over but couldn't take us further so had to go. Benitez was brought in to build on Houllier's work and take us further, which he certainly did in many ways but he still ultimately failed to take us to where we wanted to be.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44572.msg1300504#msg1300504 date=1300289568]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300472#msg1300472 date=1300286719]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300466#msg1300466 date=1300286243]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300465#msg1300465 date=1300286047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
[/quote]

an opinion isn't the same as a fact.
[/quote]

True, true. I figured that the boundaries of 'FACTS' and opinions blurred a little in the case of Benitez though....

Yes, my opinion is that he was a failure, based on the fact (and yes this IS a fact) that we never became league champions during his time at the club, which was the reason the previous manager got the boot. You can mitigate for that if you like, but if that was the main aim and it wasn't achieved then I would consider it difficult to come to another conclusion.
[/quote]
Can't argue with you regarding the failure part, but you are trivialising it a bit.
The board, Alves, Villa, Owners etc... A lot happened.
If we had Manchester City money in 2005 we probably would have won the league.
[/quote]

If we had Man City money in any given year out of the last 20 we would probably have won the league!
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300506#msg1300506 date=1300289722]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44572.msg1300504#msg1300504 date=1300289568]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300472#msg1300472 date=1300286719]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300466#msg1300466 date=1300286243]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44572.msg1300465#msg1300465 date=1300286047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44572.msg1300450#msg1300450 date=1300283968]


I've bitten my lip as long as I could.
good enough for us? what the fucks that supposed to even mean? you mean not good enough for a club that hadn't won the league for 15 fucking YEARS before he even walked through the doors? we've got no devine right to the league, BLACKBURN have won the league more recently than we have.
[/quote]

I assumed that vantage wasn't being totally serious there. Might be wrong on that.

You are quite correct that we have no divine right to the league, noone in their right minds would say we have. But that doesn't really alter the fact that Benitez, for all the good he did, was ultimately a failure and had to leave. Just because the previous 14 years have been pretty bad, he was just another who was unable to turn things around.
[/quote]

an opinion isn't the same as a fact.
[/quote]

True, true. I figured that the boundaries of 'FACTS' and opinions blurred a little in the case of Benitez though....

Yes, my opinion is that he was a failure, based on the fact (and yes this IS a fact) that we never became league champions during his time at the club, which was the reason the previous manager got the boot. You can mitigate for that if you like, but if that was the main aim and it wasn't achieved then I would consider it difficult to come to another conclusion.
[/quote]
Can't argue with you regarding the failure part, but you are trivialising it a bit.
The board, Alves, Villa, Owners etc... A lot happened.
If we had Manchester City money in 2005 we probably would have won the league.
[/quote]

If we had Man City money in any given year out of the last 20 we would probably have won the league!


[/quote]

Mancini and Hughes didn't.
 
just to be clear, i consider that RB had 2 seasons with us when he had anything more than a very remote chance of winning the title, 2007/08 and 2008/09, because before and after we didn't have the resources to compete. in those other seasons i think anything more than CL qualification should be regarded as a bonus, and that a CL title, an FA cup and a CL final are extremely large bonuses for 4 seasons' work.

it's not that i mind people disagreeing with that, or thinking he should have been sacked - i can accept that - but i can't tolerate wankers trying to make out that he did a shit job or that he 'fucked us up'. i just can't take that.
 
On some issues Rosco is considerably loopier than Rebel. The idea of Rafa scheming to join clubs behind our backs is crazy. Rosco's portrayal of the man is as mad, in fact considerably madder, than the RAWKite messianic Rafa. The man was a conrol freak, and no doubt was involved in political intrigue that was damaging the club, but it is beyond any doubt that he loved the club. And still does.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=44572.msg1300517#msg1300517 date=1300291119]
just to be clear, i consider that RB had 2 seasons with us when he had anything more than a very remote chance of winning the title, 2007/08 and 2008/09, because before and after we didn't have the resources to compete. in those other seasons i think anything more than CL qualification should be regarded as a bonus, and that a CL title, an FA cup and a CL final are extremely large bonuses for 4 seasons' work.

it's not that i mind people disagreeing with that, or thinking he should have been sacked - i can accept that - but i can't tolerate wankers trying to make out that he did a shit job or that he 'fucked us up'. i just can't take that.
[/quote]

whoa...you're like...inside my head, dude...

pete, agree with every word of that. I have the exact same view.
 
I have to say that Rosco is my hero in these conversations always arguing singlehandedly against all of Rafa's Rank like followers on here. Let me give a reason why he had to go, If Rafa was here and Torres had maneuvered his was out we would have replaced him with 3 players; 2 of them defensive and 1 striker, wishing he could fill Torre's boots. He was a very good coach but even that wore thin when players became used to his style, which is why we had a rotating door transfer policy. Thats probably the biggest reason we as a club went into crisis, you know how much we paid that ended up being a waste. Are those agents fees worth it for 6 months of Keane. And the more time and power he got the worse it became and would of got. Rafa was and is always a short term option to bring in to try and get the most out of the players you have. He couldn't build a dynasty if you gave him a century. Things even went sour for him at Valencia where he won league titles. He'll he tried to redesign (and clearly underachieved with) a Mourinho team, that's the move of a mong
 
I think he would have been fine if he had a DOF type over him, cause I think the wheels started to fall off when we handed over all the powers of the football club to him. Trouble is, he's too stubborn and self-deluded to work under a DOF, a bit of a catch-22.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=44572.msg1300518#msg1300518 date=1300291141]
On some issues Rosco is considerably loopier than Rebel. The idea of Rafa scheming to join clubs behind our backs is crazy. Rosco's portrayal of the man is as mad, in fact considerably madder, than the RAWKite messianic Rafa. The man was a conrol freak, and no doubt was involved in political intrigue that was damaging the club, but it is beyond any doubt that he loved the club. And still does.
[/quote]

This
 
[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=44572.msg1300564#msg1300564 date=1300297746]
I have to say that Rosco is my hero in these conversations always arguing singlehandedly against all of Rafa's Rank like followers on here. Let me give a reason why he had to go, If Rafa was here and Torres had maneuvered his was out we would have replaced him with 3 players; 2 of them defensive and 1 striker, wishing he could fill Torre's boots. He was a very good coach but even that wore thin when players became used to his style, which is why we had a rotating door transfer policy. Thats probably the biggest reason we as a club went into crisis, you know how much we paid that ended up being a waste. Are those agents fees worth it for 6 months of Keane. And the more time and power he got the worse it became and would of got. Rafa was and is always a short term option to bring in to try and get the most out of the players you have. He couldn't build a dynasty if you gave him a century. Things even went sour for him at Valencia where he won league titles. He'll he tried to redesign (and clearly underachieved with) a Mourinho team, that's the move of a mong
[/quote]

Help !

My brain is leaking.
 
I hope Rafa gets the job. He's had time to reflect and this break may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Wishing him all the success.
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44572.msg1300573#msg1300573 date=1300301412]
I hope Rafa gets the job. He's had time to reflect and this break may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Wishing him all the success in purchasing Lucas at an astronomical fee.
[/quote]

fixed your post
 
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