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English Cricket/ *The Ashes*!

I know Strauss is often accused of being too conservative, but I thought they declared too early today. Prior and Broad were battering the bowling and could have batted for another half an hour for me. India have such a great batting line up that they have the potential to win this game, even if the odds are against them. I'd have put another 50 on the board, which Prior and Broad looked capable of doing rapidly enough.
 
No mate....chasing 400 in a day happens only when Sehwag gets going. He is not playing, so the chances of chasing is very remote.

To top that Gambhir and Sachin are injured/unfit.....Strauss has done well to give himself enough time to get them out.
 
I know what you're saying, but if there is one team in the world with the batters to hit 400 in a day, it is India, even without Sehwag. If Dhravid or Laxman are still hanging about when the little genius comes in, anything could happen. If it does, it will go down as one of the best test matches ever like.
 
I think they'd have to break the world record 4th innings chases to win this Doc, so that shows how difficult a task the Indians face.

Saying that though Lords pitch just seems to stay flat and im negative, so i would have got more runs as well.
 
There's something quite Australian about this England side. They are developing a knack of winning all kinds of different Test matches.
 
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=41229.msg1369960#msg1369960 date=1311613935]
There's something quite Australian about this England side. They are developing a knack of winning all kinds of different Test matches.
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I can see a couple of good comparisons with the Aussies when they were at their peak. The first is that the batting goes so deep, with enables England to bounce back from a bad start to an innings - as happened with Prior and Broad's partnership in the second innings against India. Secondly, all four of England's bowlers were dangerous, so that a bowling change never meant that the pressure was off the batsmen.
 
Yep....Terrific win for England! A historic occasion too....2000th Test overall, and 100th Test between India and England.

It was always asking too much of that Indian line up when two of the batting mainstays were less than 100%.

Hopefully India will turn up with a fitter XI for the second test and make it a contest! A bowler down for 4 days is not acceptable with a 4 man attack. Zaheer didn't do the bare minimum required to play a Test and as such he shouldn't have been selected. But neither did Sreesanth, so the only real option would have been Munaf Patel, who i think is quite useless....so i understand their point of view, but they shouldn't have allowed themselves to be in this situation. There is no success without preparation.
 
I thought it was very nice of Dhoni and the rest of the team to withdraw the appeal, which they didn't have to, as the whole incident was Bell's fault for walking off for his tea without ensuring that the ball had gone for 4 and was therefore dead. The Indians had not cheated in any way.

Interviewed after close of play, Dravid said that many of the players weren't comfortable with the incident, and the team agreed unanimously to the decision to withdraw the appeal. I think that says a lot about the sporting nature of the Indians and other international teams should learn a lesson from them.

It's a good thing that Bell was allowed to continue to bat, as the atmosphere for the rest of the series would have changed for the worse if he hadn't been. It's a good thing that Bell didn't make too many runs after that before he was out. 🙂
 
Disagree with that. I don't think Dhoni should come out of this with any credit. The appeal should never have been made in the first place, and was an embarrassment to cricket. The fact that it took the whole tea interval to get it overturned leaves a bitter taste. Blaming Bell and crediting Dhoni seems to have the whole thing the wrong way around.
 
Bell was out of his crease when the ball was not dead. Mukund was perfectly within the laws of the game when he whipped the bails off. Yes, Bell made a mistake but batsmen always lose their wickets because they have made a mistake - this was just an unusual and bizarre mistake.
 
Mersey, you can't question the ethics of it whatsoever, England are hardly saints in that respect. SSN were showing an incident where Sidebottom ran into a Kiwi not too long ago (think 2008), and Collingwood appealed for it to be out.


3 former England Captains said they wouldn't have back tracked (Vaughan, Atherton and Hussain), again furthering the England are no saints argument. Therefore I think blaming Bell and crediting Dhoni is indeed the correct course of action.
 
I'm not arguing that England are saints. And thse England captains' admissions are a little embarrassing, but this goes to an argument I was making on the women's world cup thread. Perhaps I'm getting old, but the women's world cup was enjoyable for me because it was played with verve and in good spirit, playing the game with sportsmanship.
Its clear to me that it was a less-than-honorable way to take a wicket. I read that Dhoni was asked if he wanted to withdraw the appeal on the way back to the pavilion and he said 'no'. That may well be his right, but it was not a sporting right but a rules-based right. Cricket has standards higher than football and Test matches are cricket's highest form. Maybe Bell made a mistake, but it was a mistake in believing that the game was being played fairly - maybe not one he should have made in light of some of the English incidents in the past - something similar happened with Tony Greig and the West Indies 40 years ago - again the batsman was reinstated eventually.
Watching modern football with Rooney's foul moth allowed to go unpunished, players waving yellow cards after tackles, swarming the referee and trying everything they can to unfairly gain advantage, football has little to recommend it.
It was an embarrassing way to take a wicket, one which I'd like Dhoni to have realized immediately, rather than being persuaded to do the right thing 20+ minutes later.
 
Bell would of only had himself to blame if indeed he had remained out. Fair play to India, i highly doubt many others sides (if any) would of allowed him to carry on batting. When you watch it again i honestly think Bell played a blinder with how he reacted. I'm convinced when he was half way down the track and had a look back he knew he was in trouble, yet calm as you like he carried on down towards Morgans end. If he'd suddenly turned and tried to make his ground, he'd of been given out for good imo.

England were very impressive again today! With Trott injured and still behind on first innings scores, you could be forgiven for expecting them to struggle, but oh no they come out and score 417 runs in the days play! Reminded me of the aussies when they were battering everyone.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=41229.msg1372731#msg1372731 date=1312142011]
When you watch it again i honestly think Bell played a blinder with how he reacted. I'm convinced when he was half way down the track and had a look back he knew he was in trouble, yet calm as you like he carried on down towards Morgans end. If he'd suddenly turned and tried to make his ground, he'd of been given out for good imo.
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This is correct. Bell is such a crafty little motherfucker. It's telling that in his interviews he is saying he "shouldn't have walked off for tea". Walk my fucking arse he was running. Who the fuck runs out of their crease like that to go to tea? Fuck off was it a mistake he was run out after attempting to make a fourth run. I can't believe how oblivious everyone is acting to that. You can fucking see him physically changing his mind half way down the track. The motherfucker
 
I think that's a rather harsh interpretation of the incident monsieurdantes. It did look as though Morgan at the other end was alive to the possibility that the ball was not dead, However, the way I saw it, there was no way Morgan was going to attempt a fourth run, and Bell could have easily got beck to his crease if he had thought the ball was still in play. It all happened very slowly.
 
Reg Bell......Water under the bridge..... but for what it's worth i think he ran the fourth. Morgan was asking him to go back. Umpire handed the cap to the bowler after the fiasco, not before. The bails were not removed. Bell ran it, and did not walk. All the facts point towards that. Batsmen often play a lazy shot after a long innings. Bell, similarly, just made a lazy decision, but played it well to get out of jail.

I'm more shocked at Harbhajan Singh's performance this series. It perhaps is time for him to be finally dropped. India were effectively playing with two bowlers in the first Test and Three in the second Test. They should have selected Mishra. Harbhajan faking an injury and chickening out of the hammering he was about to get was the last straw....that coward!

That is the primary reason they haven't been able to land the killer blow. They have had England on the mat in no less than three occasions in this Test and let them escape. With the ball is not so surprising, but letting them escape on Day 2 after they had crossed England's first innings score for the loss of 4 wickets is really galling. Shittty shot selection from Tendulkar and Dhoni to get out too. But i guess you are allowed a bad series in three years. They have played non-stop Cricket in the last 8 months. They could have done with a bit more preparation against a strong contender like England. They got away with it in South Africa, but it seems highly unlikely for them to do the same here.

I'm actually more disappointed with two other things.
1. Calling Laxman a cheat.....it is the pits. Broad asking to check his bat...i have lost what little respect i had for that prick.
Laxman has played the game in it's proper Spirit for nearly 15 years. Umpire didn't think it was out. Hot spot didn't show anything. Stump-mike hasn't picked anything up clearly......i don't see how anyone can be calling Laxman a cheat. India have also had a couple of close caught behind appeals reviewed by hotspot. They haven't turned around and accused people of cheating, have they? Praveen Kumar reacted to umpire not giving the batsman out, but it was a heat of the moment thing and he later accepted guilt and the fine to go with it.

2. All the media rubbish about how India have no right to be number one team. This is the first series they will lose (if they lose) in three years. They have every right. I usually expect that sort of media-posturing from Australia, but i think there have been a few properly cuntish articles in the English mainstream media. Totally uncalled for. It won't be long before the boot is on the other foot when England come to India.

I didn't post my view earlier, because it will only anger a lot of English fans.....but there ya go. It is what it is.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1372864#msg1372864 date=1312188438]
I'm actually more disappointed with two other things.
1. Calling Laxman a cheat.....it is the pits. Broad asking to check his bat...i have lost what little respect i had for that prick.
Laxman has played the game in it's proper Spirit for nearly 15 years. Umpire didn't think it was out. Hot spot didn't show anything. Stump-mike hasn't picked anything up clearly......i don't see how anyone can be calling Laxman a cheat. India have also had a couple of close caught behind appeals reviewed by hotspot. They haven't turned around and accused people of cheating, have they? Praveen Kumar reacted to umpire not giving the batsman out, but it was a heat of the moment thing and he later accepted guilt and the fine to go with it.

2. All the media rubbish about how India have no right to be number one team. This is the first series they will lose (if they lose) in three years. They have every right. I usually expect that sort of media-posturing from Australia, but i think there have been a few properly cuntish articles in the English mainstream media. Totally uncalled for. It won't be long before the boot is on the other foot when England come to India.
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I haven't heard that anybody called Laxman a cheat. The England players thought he got an edge, Laxman didn't think he got an edge. England referred the decision to the DRS sytem for review. They wouldn't have wasted one of their two referral opportunities if they hadn't thought Laxman had edged it.

Secondly, I haven't seen any comment in the English media to the effect that India have no right to be be the number one team. Yes, there is plenty of talk that England might be able to get the top place if they win this series by two matches, but that is not the same as saying that India has no right to their current top position.

I think you are just grumpy because you are losing! 😉
 
Hold on.

The Indian fielder's reactions were that the ball had gone for 4. He lay on the floor, dragged himself up with no urgency, then casually threw the ball in. It was the last ball before tea and Bell was touching gloves to acknowledge the 4 that the indian fielder all but gave.

Then two indian players decided that it might not be dead, and took the bails off to and appeal for a run out. Why was there not better clarity around whether it was a boundary or not? The indian fielder clearly thought it was, by his reaction and by his casual attitude to returning the ball.

Out? By the letter of the law, yes. Within the spirit of the game? No way.

The right decision prevailed imo, and for that Dhoni should be applauded. The umpires could have been a bit clearer in their communication though.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1372864#msg1372864 date=1312188438]
I'm actually more disappointed with two other things.
1. Calling Laxman a cheat.....it is the pits. Broad asking to check his bat...i have lost what little respect i had for that prick.
Laxman has played the game in it's proper Spirit for nearly 15 years. Umpire didn't think it was out. Hot spot didn't show anything. Stump-mike hasn't picked anything up clearly......i don't see how anyone can be calling Laxman a cheat. India have also had a couple of close caught behind appeals reviewed by hotspot. They haven't turned around and accused people of cheating, have they? Praveen Kumar reacted to umpire not giving the batsman out, but it was a heat of the moment thing and he later accepted guilt and the fine to go with it.

[/quote]

Did Broad call him a cheat directly? Or was this the banter that goes on between batsmen and bowler since time immemorial?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1372864#msg1372864 date=1312188438]
I'm more shocked at Harbhajan Singh's performance this series. It perhaps is time for him to be finally dropped. India were effectively playing with two bowlers in the first Test and Three in the second Test. They should have selected Mishra. Harbhajan faking an injury and chickening out of the hammering he was about to get was the last straw....that coward!
Spot on. His batting has been rather spineless as well, especially when comparing him to his opposite number on the English team. A huge let-down and a shame for the other bowlers who have been so good.

That is the primary reason they haven't been able to land the killer blow. They have had England on the mat in no less than three occasions in this Test and let them escape. With the ball is not so surprising, but letting them escape on Day 2 after they had crossed England's first innings score for the loss of 4 wickets is really galling. Shittty shot selection from Tendulkar and Dhoni to get out too. Yes, nothing yet from either of those 2 - Dhoni doeesn't really surprise me, but Sachin owes one - maybe the 100th century is on his mind. But i guess you are allowed a bad series in three years. They have played non-stop Cricket in the last 8 months. They could have done with a bit more preparation against a strong contender like England. They got away with it in South Africa, but it seems highly unlikely for them to do the same here. Even the best teams will lose some edge without a break - was a great series-in-the-making, but yesterday was very one-sided.
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Vaughan accused him of using vaseline to fudge hotspot. Broad took it upon himself to investigate the matter. Flower and Strauss have later stated that hotspot is flawed. The thing is India have been on the wrong end of couple of hot spot reviews as well...they didn't make the scene, did they? By your logic, they wouldn't have appealed if there was no issue. India have coped a few poor decision and taken it on the chin, England have reacted petulantly, accusing BCCI for lack of DRS for LBW. It's a bit of posturing to put more pressure on the indian team and it is calculated. So to do something like that and then paint India as the villain in all of this is a bit too much...

Hmm I'd dig out the articles, but I can't access a computer now.

No I'm not really that frustrated about the results. They haven't performed to ability consistently through a match, but it has been good enjoyable cricket alround. I have never been a hard-core india supporter, to react that way. One bad result away from home in three years isn't the end of the world for India either.

Reg the runout..In Kris Srikanth's debut match against England, he went walk abouts before the ball was dead and he was rub out...exactly the same situation. Everybody laughed at the naïve dubutant and the matter ended there. No body gave him a second chance. To question the morale fabric of India's captain now for exactly the same situation for having the audacity to appeal is a bit too much. I wouldn't have revoked the appeal, but Dhoni did so perhaps the least one can do is forget about the whole story....to come back and question Dhoni's moral for appealing in the first place is a bit rich...
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1372902#msg1372902 date=1312198549]
Vaughan accused him of using vaseline to fudge hotspot. Broad took it upon himself to investigate the matter. Flower and Strauss have later stated that hotspot is flawed.
[/quote]

I hadn't heard about that! It does seem a bit unnecessary. They can't use "Snickometer" as part of the DRS system because it takes too long to get the results, but when it did appear on Sky Sports coverage, "Snicko" did seem to show that Laxman got an edge. Still, if he did get an edge, it was only a very small one! ;-)
 
I haven't been able to wathc this series as much as I would like to...but I managed to catch that ridiculously juvanile argument between Vaghan and Shasthri on that...the series didn't really need that. I love Test cricket, and it has been a good contest and England have outplayed india. It has been a bit attritional in that, India got to good positions in both tests and lacked the fire power to nail it mainly due to lack of conditioning. England wanted it more and they are doing very well indeed.
 
They should be 2 wickets down already with Mukand dropped first ball of the innings and Dravid out snicking a drive to Prior off Broad - who else.
 
It seems it's too soon for Mukund at this level. He does not have the technique to play in seaming condition. Terrible footwork, it reminds me of Sadagopan Ramesh so much.

IMO they should have gone for Rahane. He is a better opener.

Pujara's injury was a blow as far as batting backup is considered. He is the biggest batting talent to come out of India in recent times. He plays the long game, unlike the recent 20-20 graduates.

India should soon start giving games to Rahane, Pujara and Rohit Sharma imo....
 
They sure can. Broad and Bresnan beef up the batting quite a bit too. Thoroughly outperformed India. It has also been a very jaded and tired performance from India. A lot of rethinking needs to be done, and they need to get on the score-board this series to turn it around....they should aim to start at the oval.

Morgan is not Test class though.
 
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