Jo Hart should now be number one pretty much all the time. As for young players coming through... Agbonlahor maybe... not sure who else?
England VS Germany
- Thread starter Squiggles
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Probably mentioned earlier as well, but if England fans boo every national anthem, I doubt anyone else gives a fuck that they're out.
Rodwell, Adam Johnson?
true
I cant think of many.
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40760.msg1127248#msg1127248 date=1277658875]
I cant think of many.
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
[/quote]
That's a fucking awful team. Gerrard will still be around as he'll be 32. And Barry - although I think he's just not good enough at this level.
We don't really seem to have a 'next generation' in the waiting. Sad stuff.
I cant think of many.
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
[/quote]
That's a fucking awful team. Gerrard will still be around as he'll be 32. And Barry - although I think he's just not good enough at this level.
We don't really seem to have a 'next generation' in the waiting. Sad stuff.
Martin Kelly!
[quote author=keniget link=topic=40760.msg1127253#msg1127253 date=1277659438]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40760.msg1127248#msg1127248 date=1277658875]
I cant think of many.
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
[/quote]
That's a fucking awful team. Gerrard will still be around as he'll be 32. And Barry - although I think he's just not good enough at this level.
We don't really seem to have a 'next generation' in the waiting. Sad stuff.
[/quote]
At best we are going to have to skip a generation because to effect a seamless transition some of the 'next' generation should already be in the squad this time around, and one or two should even have been capable of getting on impressing.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40760.msg1127248#msg1127248 date=1277658875]
I cant think of many.
For euro '12(if we get there)
Hart
G. Johnson Onouha ___ Baines
Milner Rodwell Cattermole A. Johnson
Rooney ___
[/quote]
That's a fucking awful team. Gerrard will still be around as he'll be 32. And Barry - although I think he's just not good enough at this level.
We don't really seem to have a 'next generation' in the waiting. Sad stuff.
[/quote]
At best we are going to have to skip a generation because to effect a seamless transition some of the 'next' generation should already be in the squad this time around, and one or two should even have been capable of getting on impressing.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40760.msg1127236#msg1127236 date=1277658262]
It does, but it also shows - again - the folly of playing him out of position to accommodate Lampard. I don't care if the formation got us through against weaker opposition in the qualifiers. Benching Lampard and setting Stevie free is a prerequisite for getting the best out of Stevie for England IMO and, until we do, we'll always be a lesser team than we could be.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100% on your line of thought here.
Capello got it all wrong. He was brought in to make the big decisions, and he made one of the easiest of the big decisions (relegating Owen way down the pecking order) and maintained status-quo otherwise. A manager with balls would have used Lampard as first back up to Gerrard, with one of the younger defensive midfielders partnering him. In what way is Gareth Barry better than Carrick for example?
I would single out him picking the like of Heskey, Beckham as first choice for qualifiers as the start of an avalanche of errors. Heskey is a safe as a house player to pick to get your team qualified. Because, credit to him, he does a good enough job of making the players around him gel well against shite teams. You know exactly what you are going to get out of him. But did it serve him at all, when it came to the real thing? Young players like Adam Johnson, Ashley Young, Walcott missed out because Capello picked aging players in the squad and tried to fit the big names in the first team somehow. He only picked two genuine wide players Lennon and SWP (two very similar players) because he had already made up his mind to somehow fit the star players in to the starting eleven by playing them out of position. He took no less than 6 CMs/CAMs to the world cup...Barry, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Milner, Joe Cole. Yet he never got the Central Midfield pairing right.
All said and done Sven Goran Ericcson did a better job of managing England.
I hate to say it, but i think even the drug-lord Maradona may have done a better job of managing his charge. He simply must go....
It does, but it also shows - again - the folly of playing him out of position to accommodate Lampard. I don't care if the formation got us through against weaker opposition in the qualifiers. Benching Lampard and setting Stevie free is a prerequisite for getting the best out of Stevie for England IMO and, until we do, we'll always be a lesser team than we could be.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100% on your line of thought here.
Capello got it all wrong. He was brought in to make the big decisions, and he made one of the easiest of the big decisions (relegating Owen way down the pecking order) and maintained status-quo otherwise. A manager with balls would have used Lampard as first back up to Gerrard, with one of the younger defensive midfielders partnering him. In what way is Gareth Barry better than Carrick for example?
I would single out him picking the like of Heskey, Beckham as first choice for qualifiers as the start of an avalanche of errors. Heskey is a safe as a house player to pick to get your team qualified. Because, credit to him, he does a good enough job of making the players around him gel well against shite teams. You know exactly what you are going to get out of him. But did it serve him at all, when it came to the real thing? Young players like Adam Johnson, Ashley Young, Walcott missed out because Capello picked aging players in the squad and tried to fit the big names in the first team somehow. He only picked two genuine wide players Lennon and SWP (two very similar players) because he had already made up his mind to somehow fit the star players in to the starting eleven by playing them out of position. He took no less than 6 CMs/CAMs to the world cup...Barry, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Milner, Joe Cole. Yet he never got the Central Midfield pairing right.
All said and done Sven Goran Ericcson did a better job of managing England.
I hate to say it, but i think even the drug-lord Maradona may have done a better job of managing his charge. He simply must go....
thank FUCK the reign of crapello will come to an end. fucking clueless cunt.
* plays englands best player on the left
* partners rooney with a goal hanger when he (rooney) has played all season up front on his own.
* plays lampard despite doing fuck all for two world cups
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
* playing heskey despite his club not giving him a sniff all season
* no joe cole despite the team crying out for creativity
* team announced two hours before kick off, who is this helping exactly? not us that's for fucking sure.
and so on and so on, FUCK OFF crapello!
* plays englands best player on the left
* partners rooney with a goal hanger when he (rooney) has played all season up front on his own.
* plays lampard despite doing fuck all for two world cups
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
* playing heskey despite his club not giving him a sniff all season
* no joe cole despite the team crying out for creativity
* team announced two hours before kick off, who is this helping exactly? not us that's for fucking sure.
and so on and so on, FUCK OFF crapello!
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40760.msg1127260#msg1127260 date=1277660255]
thank FUCK the reign of crapello will come to an end. fucking clueless cunt.
* plays englands best player on the left
* partners rooney with a goal hanger when he (rooney) has played all season up front on his own.
* plays lampard despite doing fuck all for two world cups
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
* playing heskey despite his club not giving him a sniff all season
* no joe cole despite the team crying out for creativity
* team announced two hours before kick off, who is this helping exactly? not us that's for fucking sure.
and so on and so on, FUCK OFF crapello!
[/quote]
I hope you don't find too many dissenting voices over your assessment as it's spot on.
You forgot Terry out of postion too.
And two small, ineffective wingers who can't cross the ball nor attack the goal with any sort of threat when they cut inside.
And probably some more I've forgotten.
thank FUCK the reign of crapello will come to an end. fucking clueless cunt.
* plays englands best player on the left
* partners rooney with a goal hanger when he (rooney) has played all season up front on his own.
* plays lampard despite doing fuck all for two world cups
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
* playing heskey despite his club not giving him a sniff all season
* no joe cole despite the team crying out for creativity
* team announced two hours before kick off, who is this helping exactly? not us that's for fucking sure.
and so on and so on, FUCK OFF crapello!
[/quote]
I hope you don't find too many dissenting voices over your assessment as it's spot on.
You forgot Terry out of postion too.
And two small, ineffective wingers who can't cross the ball nor attack the goal with any sort of threat when they cut inside.
And probably some more I've forgotten.
Terry 'out of position' is an extremely generous defence, whatever Hansen says.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40760.msg1127267#msg1127267 date=1277660714]
Terry 'out of position' is an extremely generous defence, whatever Hansen says.
[/quote]
Granted. But it certainly doesn't help and the cumulative effect of small errors will eventually become one large problem.
Time for a near-complete clearout; management and team. And if it's a choice between the two I'd start with the team as maybe, just maybe, Capello would do better if he could start afresh and not have to deal with the legacy problems he inherited.
Terry 'out of position' is an extremely generous defence, whatever Hansen says.
[/quote]
Granted. But it certainly doesn't help and the cumulative effect of small errors will eventually become one large problem.
Time for a near-complete clearout; management and team. And if it's a choice between the two I'd start with the team as maybe, just maybe, Capello would do better if he could start afresh and not have to deal with the legacy problems he inherited.
I can't believe anyone can make any judgments after what I've seen today. I wouldn't even know where to start. England looked very disorganised. No part of the team functioned in a professional way.
I find it difficult to believe that the players carried out Capello's instructions (given Capello's reputation), most of the blame must go to the players, they did look like a bunch of individuals. Quite why they felt they could perform without listening to the Manager is perhaps where analysis should start.
I find it difficult to believe that the players carried out Capello's instructions (given Capello's reputation), most of the blame must go to the players, they did look like a bunch of individuals. Quite why they felt they could perform without listening to the Manager is perhaps where analysis should start.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40760.msg1127260#msg1127260 date=1277660255]
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
[/quote]
This is what annoyed me, and has since well, Barnes? When was the last time we constantly played with a left footer in left mid?
Downing? He was in and out and never merited a starting berth.
Lennon, WP, Cole, Gerrard, Milner are all right footed and struggled to take the byline. Capello can't take the blame for that.
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
[/quote]
This is what annoyed me, and has since well, Barnes? When was the last time we constantly played with a left footer in left mid?
Downing? He was in and out and never merited a starting berth.
Lennon, WP, Cole, Gerrard, Milner are all right footed and struggled to take the byline. Capello can't take the blame for that.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40760.msg1127282#msg1127282 date=1277663992]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40760.msg1127260#msg1127260 date=1277660255]
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
[/quote]
This is what annoyed me, and has since well, Barnes? When was the last time we constantly played with a left footer in left mid?
Downing? He was in and out and never merited a starting berth.
Lennon, WP, Cole, Gerrard, Milner are all right footed and struggled to take the byline. Capello can't take the blame for that.
[/quote]
Why can't he? He still gives instructions and has a set system with demands on various roles.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40760.msg1127260#msg1127260 date=1277660255]
* leave adam johnson at home when the team was crying out for width
[/quote]
This is what annoyed me, and has since well, Barnes? When was the last time we constantly played with a left footer in left mid?
Downing? He was in and out and never merited a starting berth.
Lennon, WP, Cole, Gerrard, Milner are all right footed and struggled to take the byline. Capello can't take the blame for that.
[/quote]
Why can't he? He still gives instructions and has a set system with demands on various roles.
The warning signs were there in our warm up games.
Its been a really really poor tournament for England. Im struggling to remember a time in my life when we looked this poor and this bereft of ideas.
It starts at the top of course. Capello has gotten so many things wrong this tournament. Worse still things he said he wouldnt do. Im not bothered about when he tells the players who is playing, thats his perogative as a coach and i can see his argument. But firstly he HAS taken and played players who were not playing for their clubs (leaving his original standpoint looking like little more than a reason concept designed to make sure he didnt have to take Owen, and he need not have bothered, Owens fragile kids body would have seen to that in the end) and worse still he has played players who have not performed. Not for one second in this tournament has Wayne Rooney looked like he had the pedigree to lead the line or even make the starting line up for any nation with pretentions of advancing to the later stages of this tournament. Lampard has barely scaled the heights he scales with ease on a bi-weekly basis in the premier league and cup competitions. John Terry has been apalling and at least part responsible for almost everything that has been bad about our defence. He has consistently given the ball away and been caught out of position leading to last gasp late challenges from amongst others Carragher, Johnson and Upson.
Gareth Barry came in injured and now looks completely lame, he is all at sea at this level and at best should be a back up left back to Ashley Cole. He has neither the required skill or the discipline to anchor the team, his constant passes back to James or the centre backs reminding me of the club football we watch week in week out, and his tendancy to drift forwards and leave massive gaps for the opposition to flood into was alarming against Algeria and tantamount to high treason against the pacy and skilful front five of the Germans.
Im not going to get into Upson and Carragher because all things being equal they wouldn’t have been playing, and at least the two of them showed some heart which is more than can be said of some others.
Johnson was fucking awful. None of the aggressive forward thinking dynamism, just the odd shuttle run forward followed by a 5ft pass to Milner and then the inevitable jog back 70 yards to his position (just ahead of the position he should be in if he were to actually STOP attacks) He has looked lazy and tired and disinterested and has shown nothing for me to make me think he deserves to hold that place. In contrast on the other side Ashley Cole was pretty faultless throughout the tournament, he was constantly let down by the centre backs getting lost around the halfway line and having to try and fill in (as was Johnson to be fair) but he pushed on and attacked where possible and covered his side of the field fairly well throughout the tournament.
The Heskey and Rooney partnership didn’t work, and neither did Rooney and Defoe. The reason being Rooney has been a shadow of himself. He shouldn’t have played after the Algeria game and i for one was hoping he had a knock that kept him out of the game today, thats how timid he has been. His first touch has been absolutely awful throughout the tournament, he has genuinely looked like a pub player. And this has been Capellos biggest failing and PROBABLY the reason he should fall on his sword. You don’t get a chance to play into form in a world cup, you play the form players and you bring those out who are not in form. Rooney has had FOUR attempts to make a vague attempt to look like a decent player and has failed totally.
Peter Crouch must be totally livid that he hasn’t had the opportunity to do something in this tournament given the all round performances of the three players who have taken the positions ahead of him. He is the only player (along with Cole) who i have any pity for. Every other player has just been pretty weak.
Divisions in the camp? Maybe. Unhappy with the coach? Maybe. But the fact is it was THIER world cup. There was no excuse for the lack of heart and commitment shown. There was no excuse for the awful defending throughout, there was no excuse for lacklustre attitude shown.
There was just so much to be disappointed in. Its been easier for me to take than any other tournament ive ever seen, because from when the first ball was kicked we looked woefully under par. There have been so many teams who were better than us including the likes of Japan, Korea, Slovakia, Australia, USA etc we were just abject throughout.
So where to now. I think realistically Capello has to go. He hasn’t shown anything that makes me think there is a sign of life there. He hasn’t motivated the team at all, he has panicked and gone back on the sound footballing principles he has been brought up on and made too many mistakes to really be able to turn round. So i think hes going to have to leave, which is a great shame as i thought he was the man to turn round our performances on the world scale but sadly not.
I think we will go back to an English manager and we could do a lot worse than Harry Redknapp. If we have the players (which has been fairly inarguable) then we just need a man to motivate them better than it seems Capello was able. Redknapp is a motivator and a man manager and i think would be a breath of fresh air.
Just play the players in their best position and play those on form. Its so easy.
Its been a really really poor tournament for England. Im struggling to remember a time in my life when we looked this poor and this bereft of ideas.
It starts at the top of course. Capello has gotten so many things wrong this tournament. Worse still things he said he wouldnt do. Im not bothered about when he tells the players who is playing, thats his perogative as a coach and i can see his argument. But firstly he HAS taken and played players who were not playing for their clubs (leaving his original standpoint looking like little more than a reason concept designed to make sure he didnt have to take Owen, and he need not have bothered, Owens fragile kids body would have seen to that in the end) and worse still he has played players who have not performed. Not for one second in this tournament has Wayne Rooney looked like he had the pedigree to lead the line or even make the starting line up for any nation with pretentions of advancing to the later stages of this tournament. Lampard has barely scaled the heights he scales with ease on a bi-weekly basis in the premier league and cup competitions. John Terry has been apalling and at least part responsible for almost everything that has been bad about our defence. He has consistently given the ball away and been caught out of position leading to last gasp late challenges from amongst others Carragher, Johnson and Upson.
Gareth Barry came in injured and now looks completely lame, he is all at sea at this level and at best should be a back up left back to Ashley Cole. He has neither the required skill or the discipline to anchor the team, his constant passes back to James or the centre backs reminding me of the club football we watch week in week out, and his tendancy to drift forwards and leave massive gaps for the opposition to flood into was alarming against Algeria and tantamount to high treason against the pacy and skilful front five of the Germans.
Im not going to get into Upson and Carragher because all things being equal they wouldn’t have been playing, and at least the two of them showed some heart which is more than can be said of some others.
Johnson was fucking awful. None of the aggressive forward thinking dynamism, just the odd shuttle run forward followed by a 5ft pass to Milner and then the inevitable jog back 70 yards to his position (just ahead of the position he should be in if he were to actually STOP attacks) He has looked lazy and tired and disinterested and has shown nothing for me to make me think he deserves to hold that place. In contrast on the other side Ashley Cole was pretty faultless throughout the tournament, he was constantly let down by the centre backs getting lost around the halfway line and having to try and fill in (as was Johnson to be fair) but he pushed on and attacked where possible and covered his side of the field fairly well throughout the tournament.
The Heskey and Rooney partnership didn’t work, and neither did Rooney and Defoe. The reason being Rooney has been a shadow of himself. He shouldn’t have played after the Algeria game and i for one was hoping he had a knock that kept him out of the game today, thats how timid he has been. His first touch has been absolutely awful throughout the tournament, he has genuinely looked like a pub player. And this has been Capellos biggest failing and PROBABLY the reason he should fall on his sword. You don’t get a chance to play into form in a world cup, you play the form players and you bring those out who are not in form. Rooney has had FOUR attempts to make a vague attempt to look like a decent player and has failed totally.
Peter Crouch must be totally livid that he hasn’t had the opportunity to do something in this tournament given the all round performances of the three players who have taken the positions ahead of him. He is the only player (along with Cole) who i have any pity for. Every other player has just been pretty weak.
Divisions in the camp? Maybe. Unhappy with the coach? Maybe. But the fact is it was THIER world cup. There was no excuse for the lack of heart and commitment shown. There was no excuse for the awful defending throughout, there was no excuse for lacklustre attitude shown.
There was just so much to be disappointed in. Its been easier for me to take than any other tournament ive ever seen, because from when the first ball was kicked we looked woefully under par. There have been so many teams who were better than us including the likes of Japan, Korea, Slovakia, Australia, USA etc we were just abject throughout.
So where to now. I think realistically Capello has to go. He hasn’t shown anything that makes me think there is a sign of life there. He hasn’t motivated the team at all, he has panicked and gone back on the sound footballing principles he has been brought up on and made too many mistakes to really be able to turn round. So i think hes going to have to leave, which is a great shame as i thought he was the man to turn round our performances on the world scale but sadly not.
I think we will go back to an English manager and we could do a lot worse than Harry Redknapp. If we have the players (which has been fairly inarguable) then we just need a man to motivate them better than it seems Capello was able. Redknapp is a motivator and a man manager and i think would be a breath of fresh air.
Just play the players in their best position and play those on form. Its so easy.
I'd be amazed if Redknapp left Spurs right now. I know he craves the england job but it could be bad timing.
Good read Oncy. I'm not an England fan in the slightest, and was sniggering like a little bitch through parts of this match, but it's people like you who I feel sorry for, not the 'INNNN-GERRRR-LUUUND' barmy army booers, but real fans.
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=40760.msg1127322#msg1127322 date=1277667486]
I'd be amazed if Redknapp left Spurs right now. I know he craves the england job but it could be bad timing.
[/quote]
Great for us though.
I'd be amazed if Redknapp left Spurs right now. I know he craves the england job but it could be bad timing.
[/quote]
Great for us though.
[Bites lip furiously]
I wouldn't be surprised if Redknapp left any club. He'd at least use any interest to make more money.
Barry was pathetic for that 4th.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40760.msg1127389#msg1127389 date=1277671847]
Barry was pathetic for that 4th.
[/quote]
Ozil made him look like a snail!
Barry was pathetic for that 4th.
[/quote]
Ozil made him look like a snail!
Is it just me or does Gareth Barry look fat? Lampard seemed almost sylph-like in comparison.
Higuain's a bit of a porker too, actually.
What's going on with these footballers?
Higuain's a bit of a porker too, actually.
What's going on with these footballers?
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