• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

England VS Germany

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
We should have been the ones playing on the counter though. I said it in another thread. Ghana carved Germany apart on the counter, but in this game Germany ceded us the ball, knowing we're incapable of doing anything with it against teams who defend in depth.

Weird that an Italian manager couldn't see the obvious.

Still, at least all us England supporters can relax and enjoy the tournament now, without having to worry about humiliated any more. You can only die once.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127173#msg1127173 date=1277654548]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=40760.msg1127170#msg1127170 date=1277654271]
I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but I think they are beatable and yeah because we are shit we didn't even look (bar a 10 minute spell) like doing that. Bad times.
[/quote]

Oh well ha yeah. It is bad. I really believe that the media don't help, nor do the players help themselves. They're not a great footballing team, there are not many amazing players. One or two, Gerrard and Rooney ON FORM can get into almost any other team. That's it. There needs to be a bit of humility and realism in this nation, not complacency and arrogance.

The commentator said during the match that only one or two German players would get into that England team? One or two England players would get into their team in reality.
[/quote]

Individually, England's players are marginally better. But they play as a team, and we don't.

Sometimes it really is that simple.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127174#msg1127174 date=1277654650]
We should have been the ones playing on the counter though. I said it in another thread. Ghana carved Germany apart on the counter, but in this game Germany ceded us the ball, knowing we're incapable of doing anything with it against teams who defend in depth.

Weird that an Italian manager couldn't see the obvious.

Still, at least all us England supporters can relax and enjoy the tournament now, without having to worry about humiliated any more. You can only die once.
[/quote]

Once every 4 years.

I think England could be even worse for the next tournament. Gerrard will be at the end of his career, as will Lampard (meh), Terry, Ashley Cole etc etc. This was England's most talented bunch of players in years in the prime of their career and they still look utterly out of their depth. It'll only get worse. There doesn't seem to be many superstars on the horizon.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127176#msg1127176 date=1277654732]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127173#msg1127173 date=1277654548]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=40760.msg1127170#msg1127170 date=1277654271]
I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but I think they are beatable and yeah because we are shit we didn't even look (bar a 10 minute spell) like doing that. Bad times.
[/quote]

Oh well ha yeah. It is bad. I really believe that the media don't help, nor do the players help themselves. They're not a great footballing team, there are not many amazing players. One or two, Gerrard and Rooney ON FORM can get into almost any other team. That's it. There needs to be a bit of humility and realism in this nation, not complacency and arrogance.

The commentator said during the match that only one or two German players would get into that England team? One or two England players would get into their team in reality.
[/quote]

Individually, England's players are marginally better. But they play as a team, and we don't.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

[/quote]

Yep, pretty much.

Capello was supposed to be ruthless, and I thought and hoped he'd sort the Gerrard/Lampard issue, but he didn't and ultimately the system was flawed and, frankly, all over the fucking place.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127176#msg1127176 date=1277654732]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127173#msg1127173 date=1277654548]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=40760.msg1127170#msg1127170 date=1277654271]
I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but I think they are beatable and yeah because we are shit we didn't even look (bar a 10 minute spell) like doing that. Bad times.
[/quote]

Oh well ha yeah. It is bad. I really believe that the media don't help, nor do the players help themselves. They're not a great footballing team, there are not many amazing players. One or two, Gerrard and Rooney ON FORM can get into almost any other team. That's it. There needs to be a bit of humility and realism in this nation, not complacency and arrogance.

The commentator said during the match that only one or two German players would get into that England team? One or two England players would get into their team in reality.
[/quote]

Individually, England's players are marginally better. But they play as a team, and we don't.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

[/quote]

I don't know you know. I don't know enough about their keeper, but he looked decent and they clearly don't seem to have the issues between the sticks as England do.

Lahm is the best right back in the world, while Ashley Cole is the best left back. Other than John Terry - and I'm clutching at straws there - England don't have any top class centre backs. The Germans coped comfortably with anything England threw at them.

Schweinsteiger in the centre is better than all of England's midfielders bar Gerrard. Lampard at this level looks utterly lost.

Rooney on his day is the one striker that can do any damage at the top level, but Germany have Klose and Podolski. Not to mention new blood coming through like Muller.

A team of the two based on a generic 442 would look like this in my opinion...

James (although it's a toss up)

Lahm Terry Mertesacker Cole

Muller Gerrard Schweinsteiger Ozil

Klose Rooney

That's 6 Germans out of 11, and that's with the generous inclusion of James. That's also while leaving out Podolski and the likes. A lot of these German players got to the Champions League final. They're no mugs and are at least a match for the English players individually.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127180#msg1127180 date=1277655034]
Cheer up, Hal. We probably won't even qualify for the next one.

[/quote]

Ha I don't give a toss about England. I just thought I'd share my views here. I just can't support them and I can't really put my finger on why.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127184#msg1127184 date=1277655334]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127176#msg1127176 date=1277654732]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127173#msg1127173 date=1277654548]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=40760.msg1127170#msg1127170 date=1277654271]
I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but I think they are beatable and yeah because we are shit we didn't even look (bar a 10 minute spell) like doing that. Bad times.
[/quote]

Oh well ha yeah. It is bad. I really believe that the media don't help, nor do the players help themselves. They're not a great footballing team, there are not many amazing players. One or two, Gerrard and Rooney ON FORM can get into almost any other team. That's it. There needs to be a bit of humility and realism in this nation, not complacency and arrogance.

The commentator said during the match that only one or two German players would get into that England team? One or two England players would get into their team in reality.
[/quote]

Individually, England's players are marginally better. But they play as a team, and we don't.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

[/quote]

I don't know you know. I don't know enough about their keeper, but he looked decent and they clearly don't seem to have the issues between the sticks as England do.

Lahm is the best right back in the world, while Ashley Cole is the best left back. Other than John Terry - and I'm clutching at straws there - England don't have any top class centre backs. The Germans coped comfortably with anything England threw at them.

Schweinsteiger in the centre is better than all of England's midfielders bar Gerrard. Lampard at this level looks utterly lost.

Rooney on his day is the one striker that can do any damage at the top level, but Germany have Klose and Podolski. Not to mention new blood coming through like Muller.

A team of the two based on a generic 442 would look like this in my opinion...

James (although it's a toss up)

Lahm Terry Mertesacker Cole

Muller Gerrard Schweinsteiger Ozil

Klose Rooney

That's 6 Germans out of 11, and that's with the generous inclusion of James. That's also while leaving out Podolski and the likes. A lot of these German players got to the Champions League final. They're no mugs and are at least a match for the English players individually.
[/quote]


I would blame Terry for the first two goals. He really has started making far too many mistakes. I don't think he should be first choice any more. England needs to seriously rethink....
 
With so many players coming toward the end of their int'l career, it's time to rebuild, but who are the next generation? Who are England's Ozils, Muellers, Bathstuber (?) etc?
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127184#msg1127184 date=1277655334]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127176#msg1127176 date=1277654732]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127173#msg1127173 date=1277654548]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=40760.msg1127170#msg1127170 date=1277654271]
I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but I think they are beatable and yeah because we are shit we didn't even look (bar a 10 minute spell) like doing that. Bad times.
[/quote]

Oh well ha yeah. It is bad. I really believe that the media don't help, nor do the players help themselves. They're not a great footballing team, there are not many amazing players. One or two, Gerrard and Rooney ON FORM can get into almost any other team. That's it. There needs to be a bit of humility and realism in this nation, not complacency and arrogance.

The commentator said during the match that only one or two German players would get into that England team? One or two England players would get into their team in reality.
[/quote]

Individually, England's players are marginally better. But they play as a team, and we don't.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

[/quote]

I don't know you know. I don't know enough about their keeper, but he looked decent and they clearly don't seem to have the issues between the sticks as England do.

Lahm is the best right back in the world, while Ashley Cole is the best left back. Other than John Terry - and I'm clutching at straws there - England don't have any top class centre backs. The Germans coped comfortably with anything England threw at them.

Schweinsteiger in the centre is better than all of England's midfielders bar Gerrard. Lampard at this level looks utterly lost.

Rooney on his day is the one striker that can do any damage at the top level, but Germany have Klose and Podolski. Not to mention new blood coming through like Muller.

A team of the two based on a generic 442 would look like this in my opinion...

James (although it's a toss up)

Lahm Terry Mertesacker Cole

Muller Gerrard Schweinsteiger Ozil

Klose Rooney

That's 6 Germans out of 11, and that's with the generous inclusion of James. That's also while leaving out Podolski and the likes. A lot of these German players got to the Champions League final. They're no mugs and are at least a match for the English players individually.
[/quote]

I like Schweinsteiger but he's a bit of an Alan Smith as a CM. Really nothing special as an individual, but a good team player which is why he's picked by both Bayern and Germany. Lampard is worth loads more on the open market, but he's the wrong player for us in that position. That's the kind of match-up I'm talking about.

Klose's been consistently brilliant at the World Cup. Is he better than Defoe? Hmm, maybe. I suspect they just use him better though, really.

Mertesacker is rubbish IMO. Yes, so is Upson. But King, Carra and Ferdinand are all bigger talents than any of the German CBs.

I'm not suggesting Germany have poor players, nor that England have fantastic players. What I said is that we're marginally better individually, and I stand by that. But Germany have a balanced team that plays for one another. That's why they won.
 
Exactly Julian. As I said, I'm clutching at straws with Terry. I just don't think the Germans' defence is too hot either. The difference is that they can perform as a unit and have it sussed tactically. England don't and I can't say I've seen them when they ever had.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40760.msg1127193#msg1127193 date=1277655738]
With so many players coming toward the end of their int'l career, it's time to rebuild, but who are the next generation? Who are England's Ozils, Muellers, Bathstuber (?) etc?
[/quote]

Good question Gene.
 
The reason we the fans,the media,the pundits etc banging on about it is because we seen these bunch of player absolutely destroy teams not just the likes of west brom n wigan but the likes of the best teams in europe with the best players in the world.the players who play in the England team are integral to their club sides.rooney destroyed teams in europe on his own this past season,yet had the touch of a sunday league player playing while stil drunk from the night before. Lampard did jack all, as did stevie, barry is actualy jus crap. The only person really able to walk head held high is James who was and is a legend.
I said it after the yank game, we are a team of individuals and nothing else.
Something needs to change drastically at the fa and I cant trust them to grow some balls and make the right decisions.
So more tournaments of blaming an inept manager,some heartache and heroic defending await us as England fans.
One of the other things is the players are bigged up at club level and when the hero worshippin at internation level doesnt happen they get annoyed like children
 
At this point in their career...i don't think many English are as good as you say they are Bunnyman.

It's a bit like saying Italian team has more talent than the German team. At their prime they had. A lot of English players in their prime were head and shoulders about this German first team recruits. Right now, the Germans are better....
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=40760.msg1127202#msg1127202 date=1277656072]
At this point in their career...i don't think many English are as good as you say they are Bunnyman.

It's a bit like saying Italian team has more talent than the German team. At their prime they had. A lot of English players in their prime were head and shoulders about this German first team recruits. Right now, the Germans are better....
[/quote]

Maybe. But in age terms, we're more like the Italians at the last World Cup. And look how they did! Experienced teams usually win more than young teams, especially at international level.

BTW: I have no idea if that is true or not. Someone find a stat to back me up!
 
I agree with a lot of that Bunnyman, except for the Schweinsteiger bit. I think he's a brilliant player.

You're right about Mertesacker, he's gash. Upson is fucking shocking too, though. King is a crock, Ferdinand granted would be in there if fit and Carragher is coming to the end also and hasn't covered himself in glory during his brief comeback.

I just think, as always, England got schooled tactically and technically. Both individually and as a team. Technique and tactics are two of the most important attributes on the pitch, and the Germans have it in bucketloads compared to England.

I think in a match up Germany just edge it marginally on who has the better individuals. You think the other way, fair enough. We both agree, though, that Germany have a far better TEAM. That's what it's about at the end of the day.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=40760.msg1127202#msg1127202 date=1277656072]
At this point in their career...i don't think many English are as good as you say they are Bunnyman.

It's a bit like saying Italian team has more talent than the German team. At their prime they had. A lot of English players in their prime were head and shoulders about this German first team recruits. Right now, the Germans are better....
[/quote]

Far far far better! I said it after the australia game that they'd batter england if england didnt improve and someone said it was a dodgy thing to say! I must say I feel great now! ;D

The serbia game was a blip, should have gotten at least a draw and were battling uphill after kloses dismissal! This german team are real contenders!
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127205#msg1127205 date=1277656422]
I agree with a lot of that Bunnyman, except for the Schweinsteiger bit. I think he's a brilliant player.

You're right about Mertesacker, he's gash. Upson is fucking shocking too, though. King is a crock, Ferdinand granted would be in there if fit and Carragher is coming to the end also and hasn't covered himself in glory during his brief comeback.

I just think, as always, England got schooled tactically and technically. Both individually and as a team. Technique and tactics are two of the most important attributes on the pitch, and the Germans have it in bucketloads compared to England.

I think in a match up Germany just edge it marginally on who has the better individuals. You think the other way, fair enough. We both agree, though, that Germany have a far better TEAM. That's what it's about at the end of the day.
[/quote]

Two good posts from you and Bunny. I'm in his camp rather than yours where the two of you differ, but I don't expect any of us will disagree on the teamwork aspect. After Istanbul we of all fans should know that that's where it's at.
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40760.msg1127200#msg1127200 date=1277656031]
The reason we the fans,the media,the pundits etc banging on about it is because we seen these bunch of player absolutely destroy teams not just the likes of west brom n wigan but the likes of the best teams in europe with the best players in the world.the players who play in the England team are integral to their club sides.rooney destroyed teams in europe on his own this past season,yet had the touch of a sunday league player playing while stil drunk from the night before. Lampard did jack all, as did stevie, barry is actualy jus crap. The only person really able to walk head held high is James who was and is a legend.
I said it after the yank game, we are a team of individuals and nothing else.
Something needs to change drastically at the fa and I cant trust them to grow some balls and make the right decisions.
So more tournaments of blaming an inept manager,some heartache and heroic defending await us as England fans.
One of the other things is the players are bigged up at club level and when the hero worshippin at internation level doesnt happen they get annoyed like children
[/quote]

It's always been the case, though, Asim. Only recently have English teams really exerted themselves in European competition.

With regards to Rooney, I don't think he was fit. He was good at the last World Cup. I think if he was fit he would have been much better.

I think in the league, the English players have the added bonus of playing with such great overseas players. Gerrard has Torres, Mascherano, used to have Alonso etc etc. Lampard has Drogba, Rooney used to have Ronaldo etc. Instead, they have to put up with the likes of Heskey, Barry, Milner - bless his cotton socks. The potential is there but not just yet.

I think it's a lot of misplaced faith, optimism, naivety, arrogance etc. There are one or two top class players, but that doesn't make a team.
 
I have to say, when England went 4-1 down I was willing them to show pride and really battle in the last 20 minutes but it didn't happen, in fact some of them just gave up - that has to tell you something about the lack of pride and commitment some of them have.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127213#msg1127213 date=1277656900]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40760.msg1127200#msg1127200 date=1277656031]
The reason we the fans,the media,the pundits etc banging on about it is because we seen these bunch of player absolutely destroy teams not just the likes of west brom n wigan but the likes of the best teams in europe with the best players in the world.the players who play in the England team are integral to their club sides.rooney destroyed teams in europe on his own this past season,yet had the touch of a sunday league player playing while stil drunk from the night before. Lampard did jack all, as did stevie, barry is actualy jus crap. The only person really able to walk head held high is James who was and is a legend.
I said it after the yank game, we are a team of individuals and nothing else.
Something needs to change drastically at the fa and I cant trust them to grow some balls and make the right decisions.
So more tournaments of blaming an inept manager,some heartache and heroic defending await us as England fans.
One of the other things is the players are bigged up at club level and when the hero worshippin at internation level doesnt happen they get annoyed like children
[/quote]

It's always been the case, though, Asim. Only recently have English teams really exerted themselves in European competition.

With regards to Rooney, I don't think he was fit. He was good at the last World Cup. I think if he was fit he would have been much better.

I think in the league, the English players have the added bonus of playing with such great overseas players. Gerrard has Torres, Mascherano, used to have Alonso etc etc. Lampard has Drogba, Rooney used to have Ronaldo etc. Instead, they have to put up with the likes of Heskey, Barry, Milner - bless his cotton socks. The potential is there but not just yet.

I think it's a lot of misplaced faith, optimism, naivety, arrogance etc. There are one or two top class players, but that doesn't make a team.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's not true. English teams won everything in sight for a fair while until Heysel happened.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40760.msg1127210#msg1127210 date=1277656773]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127205#msg1127205 date=1277656422]
I agree with a lot of that Bunnyman, except for the Schweinsteiger bit. I think he's a brilliant player.

You're right about Mertesacker, he's gash. Upson is fucking shocking too, though. King is a crock, Ferdinand granted would be in there if fit and Carragher is coming to the end also and hasn't covered himself in glory during his brief comeback.

I just think, as always, England got schooled tactically and technically. Both individually and as a team. Technique and tactics are two of the most important attributes on the pitch, and the Germans have it in bucketloads compared to England.

I think in a match up Germany just edge it marginally on who has the better individuals. You think the other way, fair enough. We both agree, though, that Germany have a far better TEAM. That's what it's about at the end of the day.
[/quote]

Two good posts from you and Bunny. I'm in his camp rather than yours where the two of you differ, but I don't expect any of us will disagree on the teamwork aspect. After Istanbul we of all fans should know that that's where it's at.
[/quote]

Cheers JJ. Fair enough, as you say it is close between the two. And after all it is a team game anyway.

Haha the Dizzee Rascal England song has just come on on the TV.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40760.msg1127216#msg1127216 date=1277657066]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40760.msg1127213#msg1127213 date=1277656900]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40760.msg1127200#msg1127200 date=1277656031]
The reason we the fans,the media,the pundits etc banging on about it is because we seen these bunch of player absolutely destroy teams not just the likes of west brom n wigan but the likes of the best teams in europe with the best players in the world.the players who play in the England team are integral to their club sides.rooney destroyed teams in europe on his own this past season,yet had the touch of a sunday league player playing while stil drunk from the night before. Lampard did jack all, as did stevie, barry is actualy jus crap. The only person really able to walk head held high is James who was and is a legend.
I said it after the yank game, we are a team of individuals and nothing else.
Something needs to change drastically at the fa and I cant trust them to grow some balls and make the right decisions.
So more tournaments of blaming an inept manager,some heartache and heroic defending await us as England fans.
One of the other things is the players are bigged up at club level and when the hero worshippin at internation level doesnt happen they get annoyed like children
[/quote]

It's always been the case, though, Asim. Only recently have English teams really exerted themselves in European competition.

With regards to Rooney, I don't think he was fit. He was good at the last World Cup. I think if he was fit he would have been much better.

I think in the league, the English players have the added bonus of playing with such great overseas players. Gerrard has Torres, Mascherano, used to have Alonso etc etc. Lampard has Drogba, Rooney used to have Ronaldo etc. Instead, they have to put up with the likes of Heskey, Barry, Milner - bless his cotton socks. The potential is there but not just yet.

I think it's a lot of misplaced faith, optimism, naivety, arrogance etc. There are one or two top class players, but that doesn't make a team.
[/quote]

Sorry but that's not true. English teams won everything in sight for a fair while until Heysel happened.
[/quote]

I'm not old enough JJ! 😛

Yeah actually, my mistake. But there was always this blind optimism throughout the 90s when anything elsewhere in the world was miles better. Most notably Germany and Italy.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127204#msg1127204 date=1277656285]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=40760.msg1127202#msg1127202 date=1277656072]
At this point in their career...i don't think many English are as good as you say they are Bunnyman.

It's a bit like saying Italian team has more talent than the German team. At their prime they had. A lot of English players in their prime were head and shoulders about this German first team recruits. Right now, the Germans are better....
[/quote]

Maybe. But in age terms, we're more like the Italians at the last World Cup. And look how they did! Experienced teams usually win more than young teams, especially at international level.

BTW: I have no idea if that is true or not. Someone find a stat to back me up!

[/quote]

I don't know about historically. Here is the ages of the squads in this worldcup.


Ghana – 24.1
North Korea – 24.8
Germany – 25.0
Cameroon – 25.2
Spain – 25.9
Chile – 25.9
Serbia – 26.0
Slovakia – 26.1
Switzerland – 26.7
Ivory Coast – 26.7
Uruguay – 26.7
Slovenia – 26.7
South Africa – 26.9
USA – 26.9
Mexico – 27.1
Argentina – 27.1
South Korea – 27.1
Algeria – 27.2
New Zealand – 27.3
France – 27.4
Greece – 27.7
Nigeria – 27.7
Denmark – 27.7
Netherlands – 27.7
Portugal – 27.7
Japan – 27.8
Honduras – 28.1
Paraguay – 28.1
Italy – 28.2
Australia – 28.4
Brazil – 28.6
England – 28.7


England's starting 11 average is probably worse the its Saquad average. Large thanks to David James.

But the point im trying to make is this England team had no tenacity. The good players thought they were super stars and that they didn't need to work hard or track back. Some players like Barry, Heskey, Upson are just too poor to be playing at this level. John Terry, Carra etc have let too many mistakes creep in to their game - which makes me think that they may be over the hill. Eitherway they never had the legs. Capello never got the center midfield right. Results in the qualifier against poor teams don't mean much.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40760.msg1127214#msg1127214 date=1277656989]
I have to say, when England went 4-1 down I was willing them to show pride and really battle in the last 20 minutes but it didn't happen, in fact some of them just gave up - that has to tell you something about the lack of pride and commitment some of them have.
[/quote]

Me too. The last 15-20 minutes were woeful not least because of a complete lack of pride and commitment.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40760.msg1127198#msg1127198 date=1277655923]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40760.msg1127193#msg1127193 date=1277655738]
With so many players coming toward the end of their int'l career, it's time to rebuild, but who are the next generation? Who are England's Ozils, Muellers, Bathstuber (?) etc?
[/quote]

Good question Gene.
[/quote]

England are about to reap the costs of the Premier League's wealth and the influx of foreign players.
 
I do have to say that Gerrard was the best out field player on display for England in this tournament. But he was not playing to his full potential, and that just shows how poor this England team has been.
 
It does, but it also shows - again - the folly of playing him out of position to accommodate Lampard. I don't care if the formation got us through against weaker opposition in the qualifiers. Benching Lampard and setting Stevie free is a prerequisite for getting the best out of Stevie for England IMO and, until we do, we'll always be a lesser team than we could be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Squiggles
    • Like
  • Locked
05/10/2024 - Weeks Other Games Thread
2 3
Replies
60
Views
1K
rubans
rubans
Squiggles
  • Locked
Weekends Other Games 31-8-24
2 3 4 5
Replies
138
Views
2K
Mamma Mia
Mamma Mia
the count
    • Like
  • Locked
In memory of @gkMacca
Replies
21
Views
2K
Roopy
Roopy
the count
    • Like
  • Locked
Interview with Tom Werner
Replies
7
Views
909
FreshRed
FreshRed
Frogfish
    • Like
  • Locked
Pre-Season Observations
2 3
Replies
66
Views
4K
keniget
keniget
Back
Top Bottom