Maybe he can be the new Mr. Intensity
Dynamic duo: Henderson & Fabinho
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Maybe he can be the new Mr. Intensity
I'm done with the pair of them. Hendersons performances since landing that contract have been shite, and Fabinho is finished at this level. It's a sad state of affairs. In this data driven age, there has to be serious questions raised about the clubs inability to recognise their physical decline.
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And how did they do last season? There's not going to be much data indicating a decline ... until this season !
I'd genuinely be curious to see the numbers. We scraped through many games last season and plenty of posters highlighted the declining effectiveness of both players.
They've dropped off a cliff this season but warning signs were there.
If you think the physical capability of our players is not monitored or scrutinised during extensive pre-season sessions, training camps, or just generally in day-to-day training sessions then I don't know what to tell you.
There should be plenty out there to highlight the decline in either players physical attributes. And yet nothing was done about it.
You think there's anyone left alive who doesn't know every player in the PL is monitored to the nth degree? 😉
I'm sure there was a drop off - to be expected after last season and the shortest of Summer breaks. However if they've performed well throughout last season, and they did, how do you distinguish between a drop-off due to fatigue and a drop-off caused by aging? One for the more scientific minded posters to enlighten us with.
Side-note : maybe the medical team know it's fatigue and that's why new contracts were given - otherwise it's unfathomable why long contract extensions, and not year by year extensions, were given.
See the answer to Squiggles above. I just can't see how contract extensions were given if what we take to be signs of aging, contrary to fatigue, were so obvious. Hendo the biggest conundrum.
Hendo is someone who looks after himself so the dropoff is baffling. I wonder if he had changed his regime in order to have a longer career at the expense of some zip to his legs. He doesn't seem to be able to get around the pitch anymore. He hardly makes a challenge or a sprint these days because the ball just bypasses him, he couldn't even keep up.
I watched a couple of clips of him training with Ings during the off season. Ings is another player who has gradually lost his speed and he is around the same age.
I watched a couple of clips of him training with Ings during the off season. Ings is another player who has gradually lost his speed and he is around the same age.
Fabinho and Henderson are both spent. Hendo has had injuries, and is probably all too aware he isnt getting close to challenges and runs the risk of a card. Trent didn't help when he came on, repeatedly squandering possesion. We lost a foothold when they came on, so our issues are more complex and widespread than individual dips/declines.
Thiago is the best of a bad bunch but always a game away from breaking. While Fabinho, although never being the most agile of players, has definitely lost a yard physically and mentally. He offers more because he can still "sit in", but he seems to mostly foul people and try to be a nuisance these days, than offer any intelligent play or ability to win possession back.
Henderson needs to take a step towards coaching and helping the younger players who are coming through.
Henderson should go abroad if he wants to prolong his career playing at the highest level. His stock is still relatively high so he might get a move to a decent club.
We've known Henderson's decline was coming for a while now (which makes his contract renewal all the more baffling) but Fabinho? I just don't understand it.
I still hold out some hope that if / when we can put together a functioning team he will be able to recover some form.
The problem we have generally speaking is that our team has always been one that is greater than the sum of it's parts. We took good players and made them look great. We have very few that can perform regardless of how the system is functioning.
Alisson obviously. Diaz but he's dead. Nunez in his own mad way is another but output is questionable. Robertson potentially could make an argument for when not having one of his dips. Konate perhaps. VVD should be first name in mind but not seen the leader and organizer he's meant to be for a long time now.
That's kinda it. Not great, is it?
I'd quite like for us to buy a couple players that have the ability to impose themselves on the game when the chips are down and and don't necessarily require a carefully designed environment to perform.
I still hold out some hope that if / when we can put together a functioning team he will be able to recover some form.
The problem we have generally speaking is that our team has always been one that is greater than the sum of it's parts. We took good players and made them look great. We have very few that can perform regardless of how the system is functioning.
Alisson obviously. Diaz but he's dead. Nunez in his own mad way is another but output is questionable. Robertson potentially could make an argument for when not having one of his dips. Konate perhaps. VVD should be first name in mind but not seen the leader and organizer he's meant to be for a long time now.
That's kinda it. Not great, is it?
I'd quite like for us to buy a couple players that have the ability to impose themselves on the game when the chips are down and and don't necessarily require a carefully designed environment to perform.
Interesting concept (can perform regardless of how the system is functioning). Is that even possible though? Surely every manager is coaching his team to perform as a team to elicit a higher level than that possible by relying entirely on any individual's skillset alone. It's likely been the Klopp motto since he came here.
As far as world class teams go - every one of them has a handful of water carriers, fine players in their own right but not world stars. I know you weren't suggesting we should have world-class players in every position but we can certainly put together a team that fulfills the general criteria, however with injuries, new players dropped straight into the first team, a couple looking past their sell-by date and (I'm still banging this drum), fatigue from last season, it's no wonder that the team is not going anywhere this season - and even a new midfielder won't cure that. But 2-3 in the Summer might and I'd suggest will do.
Regardless of any perceived drop-off (which could be due to any of the above factors) then these players are as good as most of, or better, than their peers in the PL : Alisson, Robbo, VvD, Konate, Trent (when the team is functioning), Thiago, Salah and possibly Diaz. That's a helluva core.
That bunch are ably backed up by Jota & Nunez and then there are a handful showing great potential or at least are at a level to pad the team / squad when required.
I don't see a major age issue with that prime core for another couple of seasons, plenty of time to bring in replacements. It's likely Klopp & the management thought they had time for this gradual overhaul but this season has caught out everybody and we'll just have to suffer for now.
Exactly. Plus I don't think Morton has developed enough physically to be a part of a Klopp midfield as yet. Particularly one that is so lightweight already. He should be on a diet of meat and potatoes until further notice.
Hendo is done, it's been obvious for some time. He's not technically skilled enough to adapt to another role now that he's losing mobility. He's got another 2 years to run so he's probably not going anywhere, it's one of the reasons we can't extend Milner, there are already too many passengers as our core ages put of it's prime.
Is Morton really much skinnier than badger or weaker in the challenge than Elliott? He looked at least as good as badger when he got a game.
Agree that we probably shouldn’t break the loan though, it did wonders for Elliott and we should probably value development over having an extra option we might use
Agree that we probably shouldn’t break the loan though, it did wonders for Elliott and we should probably value development over having an extra option we might use
Pretty much what all the sensible posters were saying when he got that contract. Which was a year ago!
Also, did they have to give such long extensions? Henderson till 2025, Fabinho till 2026, and Jones till 2027 (which happened recently). After whomever we buy this summer, I think there is going to be no more midfield purchases till these contracts run out, 2025 at the earliest. Whoever we purchase over the summer better be top class and continuously available with no injuries till 2025 at least.
At the very least, he should retire from England and conserve all his energy for Liverpool. If he tries to do both with diminishing physical ability, it is going to get ugly in the final couple of years of his contract.
He won't be picked for England, so it won't matter. Then he will 'retire'
Southgate is loyal. As long as Henderson doesn't retire, Southgate will keep on picking him.
Then retire from England. James Milner retired from England at 30 or 31, which prolonged his premier league career.
[article]Arsenal goalkeeper Aaron Ramsdale has hit out at critics of Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson.
The pair were together with England at the World Cup.
Ramsdale told The Fellas podcast: "He gets so disrespected because he doesn't play all the nice stuff. He runs like 12km a game, the way he talks to people on the pitch. The things he does do, he'll play an unbelievable pass or cross, but it won't really get talked about because he's probably just done it once in the game. He's properly underrated at England by the fans, not by the players. They love him."
Ramsdale also had a word for Reds fans: “Liverpool fans are good. The Kop always clap, they always show respect to the goalie, or they have done for me at least. And then the clap will finish, the game will kick off and you've got all of them screaming at you. They shout everything under The Lying Rag.
"At the end of the game, I don't know if it will change when they've lost, as I've not won there, but when we've drawn or whatever, they still clap at the end. They're good with it, they can just appreciate banter and a player."[/article]
The pair were together with England at the World Cup.
Ramsdale told The Fellas podcast: "He gets so disrespected because he doesn't play all the nice stuff. He runs like 12km a game, the way he talks to people on the pitch. The things he does do, he'll play an unbelievable pass or cross, but it won't really get talked about because he's probably just done it once in the game. He's properly underrated at England by the fans, not by the players. They love him."
Ramsdale also had a word for Reds fans: “Liverpool fans are good. The Kop always clap, they always show respect to the goalie, or they have done for me at least. And then the clap will finish, the game will kick off and you've got all of them screaming at you. They shout everything under The Lying Rag.
"At the end of the game, I don't know if it will change when they've lost, as I've not won there, but when we've drawn or whatever, they still clap at the end. They're good with it, they can just appreciate banter and a player."[/article]
[article]Not since the £40m signing debuted in September 2018 have there been three consecutive games where neither he or captain Henderson have both not started, prior to Sunday's trip to Brighton. That statistic alone highlights Klopp's current discontent with how the centre of the pitch has become a weak point at Anfield.
A key issue for Klopp to wrestle with now is what to do with Fabinho. At a time when it is becoming more widely accepted that it is an area in need of major surgery, will he be trusted to eventually reach the sort of levels that made him one of the outstanding defensive screens in European football once more? Or is the rapid decline now irreversible?
On top of the other problems plaguing Liverpool in the short and long term, it's a further headache Klopp could well do without.[/article]
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