Yes it was. But longer.
Downing
- Thread starter El Pistolero
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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362910#msg1362910 date=1310318393]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362900#msg1362900 date=1310316859]
Henderson was 13 mill + 3 mill add ons. Confirmed by Comolli.
So you dont want us to improve then Ross? Continue with the same players we had for LW last season? Or are you just arguing for fun without having a clue about what other targets we can get? Do you know who has hit the most accurete crosses in total over the last 3 seasons? Downing. Not to bad when you're *shite* that..
[/quote]
I love this logic, because I want to wait for good players to be available at sensible prices I must not want us to improve. I do want us to improve Hansern - I just don't want us to repeat the mistakes of years gone by when we've settled for average players and usually overspent on them so when better players become available all our money is spent and we're left moaning about not having ambition and all that other nonsense people talk about.
I happen to think Downing is decent and would add something to the side, just not enough to warrant a 20m pound transfer. Realistically he's a replacement for Maxi, but he's not going to produce much more than Maxi - he'll do it differently, but it will amount to around the same thing. I would have preferred to stick it out with Maxi for another season, or maybe pick up a cheap short term deal rather than handicap us for the future by committing about 35m+ to a deal for Downing. If our aim is to make the CL, it's all we'll ever get as we've found out for the last decade. If we have real conviction about our goals and what we do we can win the league. I'd prefer us to do that. The notion of there being a gradual way to do it is nonsense, by the time we're a settled CL regular again the players that got us there will need replacing because a lot of them will be past it, not good enough for a title winning team etc. So we need a massive outlay to improve again, which will probably be beyond us. I'll repeat what I said before, because of the natural improvement that is possible from the squad we have, we should be looking to add players who will be good enough for a spot in a title winning team, not next season but the season after that and for the few years after it. I don't think Downing will be up to that level at that time so I'd be happy to pass on him at 20m and exercise some restraint.
I am shocked at the deal, I really thought having Comolli would prevent this type of wastefulness. It's not fun watching a team with fuck up consistently when you can see it coming a mile off.
Re - the stats - how is an accurate cross measured ? I presume it takes a teammate to get on the end of it. Does it have to give them a chance on goal or is any touch by a player enough ? Are we sure that it's an indicator of good crossing ability or do Villa flood the box with players. Did they have players who were unusually good in the air ? etc etc. Don't take stats like that at face value.
And really if he's been so good for three years I'd be worried. I always think players like Downing have a three year window usually around mid to late twenties where they perform best. If Downing has just had those three years this deal gets worse. I don't think that's the case though I think he'll be slightly above average until he's 29/30.
[/quote]
This sight really is polarised regarding Downing both sides will not back down.
I agree completely it will be money poorly spent and if the worst happens and we buy him I fear it will be a huge waste of limited resources.
Downing is what he is and personally I do think it is questionable that he is better than what we already have. It would be fair to say his arrival would strengthen the squad but it is a stretch to say that because of this it justifies a massive fee.
As to whether Downing would strenghen the first eleven or make us more competitive? I haven't seen him show enough flair pace skill ANYTHING to suggest that he will and for the big bucks they are asking for him as a fan i feel entitled, rightly or wrongly, to hope for more.
He is neither especially quick nor skillful he has no real flair or eye for the unexpected goal/pass..... to me Downing is very much in the mould of so many other England players, quite athletic, reasonable engine and well.... thats about it.
As for quoting stats? Well thats been done before for Pennant and really doesnt count for much, Pennant also played for England you know....
All the way through this thread I've never been able to shake the genuine sense of shock that anyone would truly want us to sign Downing. Not one of the posts in favour have really given good reasons, the odd stat here and there, the odd argument as to our current weakness on the left etc nobody has been able to state categorically that Downing is a top player because they cannot because he obvioulsy IS NOT, to be honest i've sort of got the feeling that many posters were almost trying to convince themselves that is is a good idea/player as opposed to anyone else.
For the simple reason alone that he is not very good i don't want us to sign him and as for throwing huge wads of cash at Villa in order to do that.... its a real shame.... it's barmy in fact and i truly hope we don't do it, i would sincerely prefer that we started the season without a new left winger than throw 20M at Downing just to have one.
On a side note, although granted perhaps not the most important reason, he is dull as dishwater to watch.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362900#msg1362900 date=1310316859]
Henderson was 13 mill + 3 mill add ons. Confirmed by Comolli.
So you dont want us to improve then Ross? Continue with the same players we had for LW last season? Or are you just arguing for fun without having a clue about what other targets we can get? Do you know who has hit the most accurete crosses in total over the last 3 seasons? Downing. Not to bad when you're *shite* that..
[/quote]
I love this logic, because I want to wait for good players to be available at sensible prices I must not want us to improve. I do want us to improve Hansern - I just don't want us to repeat the mistakes of years gone by when we've settled for average players and usually overspent on them so when better players become available all our money is spent and we're left moaning about not having ambition and all that other nonsense people talk about.
I happen to think Downing is decent and would add something to the side, just not enough to warrant a 20m pound transfer. Realistically he's a replacement for Maxi, but he's not going to produce much more than Maxi - he'll do it differently, but it will amount to around the same thing. I would have preferred to stick it out with Maxi for another season, or maybe pick up a cheap short term deal rather than handicap us for the future by committing about 35m+ to a deal for Downing. If our aim is to make the CL, it's all we'll ever get as we've found out for the last decade. If we have real conviction about our goals and what we do we can win the league. I'd prefer us to do that. The notion of there being a gradual way to do it is nonsense, by the time we're a settled CL regular again the players that got us there will need replacing because a lot of them will be past it, not good enough for a title winning team etc. So we need a massive outlay to improve again, which will probably be beyond us. I'll repeat what I said before, because of the natural improvement that is possible from the squad we have, we should be looking to add players who will be good enough for a spot in a title winning team, not next season but the season after that and for the few years after it. I don't think Downing will be up to that level at that time so I'd be happy to pass on him at 20m and exercise some restraint.
I am shocked at the deal, I really thought having Comolli would prevent this type of wastefulness. It's not fun watching a team with fuck up consistently when you can see it coming a mile off.
Re - the stats - how is an accurate cross measured ? I presume it takes a teammate to get on the end of it. Does it have to give them a chance on goal or is any touch by a player enough ? Are we sure that it's an indicator of good crossing ability or do Villa flood the box with players. Did they have players who were unusually good in the air ? etc etc. Don't take stats like that at face value.
And really if he's been so good for three years I'd be worried. I always think players like Downing have a three year window usually around mid to late twenties where they perform best. If Downing has just had those three years this deal gets worse. I don't think that's the case though I think he'll be slightly above average until he's 29/30.
[/quote]
This sight really is polarised regarding Downing both sides will not back down.
I agree completely it will be money poorly spent and if the worst happens and we buy him I fear it will be a huge waste of limited resources.
Downing is what he is and personally I do think it is questionable that he is better than what we already have. It would be fair to say his arrival would strengthen the squad but it is a stretch to say that because of this it justifies a massive fee.
As to whether Downing would strenghen the first eleven or make us more competitive? I haven't seen him show enough flair pace skill ANYTHING to suggest that he will and for the big bucks they are asking for him as a fan i feel entitled, rightly or wrongly, to hope for more.
He is neither especially quick nor skillful he has no real flair or eye for the unexpected goal/pass..... to me Downing is very much in the mould of so many other England players, quite athletic, reasonable engine and well.... thats about it.
As for quoting stats? Well thats been done before for Pennant and really doesnt count for much, Pennant also played for England you know....
All the way through this thread I've never been able to shake the genuine sense of shock that anyone would truly want us to sign Downing. Not one of the posts in favour have really given good reasons, the odd stat here and there, the odd argument as to our current weakness on the left etc nobody has been able to state categorically that Downing is a top player because they cannot because he obvioulsy IS NOT, to be honest i've sort of got the feeling that many posters were almost trying to convince themselves that is is a good idea/player as opposed to anyone else.
For the simple reason alone that he is not very good i don't want us to sign him and as for throwing huge wads of cash at Villa in order to do that.... its a real shame.... it's barmy in fact and i truly hope we don't do it, i would sincerely prefer that we started the season without a new left winger than throw 20M at Downing just to have one.
On a side note, although granted perhaps not the most important reason, he is dull as dishwater to watch.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I reckon Dalglish could invest £50M in Kevin Davies and we'll all be waxing lyrical.
You're right Molby, the views are polarised.
Downing is what he is and personally I do think it is questionable that he is better than what we already have
Really? What, not better than Maxi or Joe Cole? Cos that's about all we've got, they've got about half a dozen good games between them in a Liverpool shirt. Both are inconsistent and the end product poor too often, and for all of our loathing of statistics, I'd wager Downings are alot more appealing. He's a good consistent performer who's comfortable with both feet and on both sides of the pitch.
And Ross:
Realistically he's a replacement for Maxi, but he's not going to produce much more than Maxi - he'll do it differently, but it will amount to around the same thing. I would have preferred to stick it out with Maxi for another season
I find it a bit rich that you guys are advocating Maxi as an arguably better player, based on a few games of good form from 18 months of football (while you both wax lyrical about us needing consistent quality), when Downing has just been Villa's player of the year and is up there in the goals and assists charts from midfield and is a proven consistent performer.
Downing is what he is and personally I do think it is questionable that he is better than what we already have
Really? What, not better than Maxi or Joe Cole? Cos that's about all we've got, they've got about half a dozen good games between them in a Liverpool shirt. Both are inconsistent and the end product poor too often, and for all of our loathing of statistics, I'd wager Downings are alot more appealing. He's a good consistent performer who's comfortable with both feet and on both sides of the pitch.
And Ross:
Realistically he's a replacement for Maxi, but he's not going to produce much more than Maxi - he'll do it differently, but it will amount to around the same thing. I would have preferred to stick it out with Maxi for another season
I find it a bit rich that you guys are advocating Maxi as an arguably better player, based on a few games of good form from 18 months of football (while you both wax lyrical about us needing consistent quality), when Downing has just been Villa's player of the year and is up there in the goals and assists charts from midfield and is a proven consistent performer.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1362964#msg1362964 date=1310325384]
*peeps in*
*reads 20 posts*
HEEEEeeeeyyy they look just like the first 20 posts!!!!
*goes to tell Sunny something has gone weird in the Downing thread*
[/quote]
'cept now theres appaz a fee agreed for 20m.
*peeps in*
*reads 20 posts*
HEEEEeeeeyyy they look just like the first 20 posts!!!!
*goes to tell Sunny something has gone weird in the Downing thread*
[/quote]
'cept now theres appaz a fee agreed for 20m.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362973#msg1362973 date=1310326829]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1362964#msg1362964 date=1310325384]
*peeps in*
*reads 20 posts*
HEEEEeeeeyyy they look just like the first 20 posts!!!!
*goes to tell Sunny something has gone weird in the Downing thread*
[/quote]
You could get a helluva lot of Lion Bars with that money.
'cept now theres appaz a fee agreed for 20m.
[/quote]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1362964#msg1362964 date=1310325384]
*peeps in*
*reads 20 posts*
HEEEEeeeeyyy they look just like the first 20 posts!!!!
*goes to tell Sunny something has gone weird in the Downing thread*
[/quote]
You could get a helluva lot of Lion Bars with that money.
'cept now theres appaz a fee agreed for 20m.
[/quote]
Picnic's are where it's at.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1362978#msg1362978 date=1310327680]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44931.msg1362976#msg1362976 date=1310327608]
Picnic's are where it's at.
[/quote]Say WHAT!!! Lion bar is all over a Picnic......shit even a Double Decker shits on a picnic.
[/quote]
Damn straight. Lion bar's are boss.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44931.msg1362976#msg1362976 date=1310327608]
Picnic's are where it's at.
[/quote]Say WHAT!!! Lion bar is all over a Picnic......shit even a Double Decker shits on a picnic.
[/quote]
Damn straight. Lion bar's are boss.
Most big money transfers now are over the top but in this crazy world, i'm happy we're going to sign Downing and if the owners are happy to spend £20m on him, so be it. One thing's for sure, for the first time in a long time, we've showed ambition and intent in a transfer window. I'm really excited about the direction we're heading in.
What Ryan said.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44931.msg1362994#msg1362994 date=1310328839]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362767#msg1362767 date=1310298607]
Barnes, bar THAT goal for England did fuck all on the international stage, & wasn't exactly creating headlines at Watford.
[/quote]
Bollocks Jon.
[/quote]
No its not. When Barnes signed for us a majority of fans were underwhelmed given what they'd seen him do for watford and england.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362767#msg1362767 date=1310298607]
Barnes, bar THAT goal for England did fuck all on the international stage, & wasn't exactly creating headlines at Watford.
[/quote]
Bollocks Jon.
[/quote]
No its not. When Barnes signed for us a majority of fans were underwhelmed given what they'd seen him do for watford and england.
For the people who are hoping against hope downing doesn't happen...
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44931.msg1362987#msg1362987 date=1310328186]
I've never seen anyone else buy a Topic, ever. Apart from me.
[/quote]
High five your topic brother Mark! I too am of that faith.
I've never seen anyone else buy a Topic, ever. Apart from me.
[/quote]
High five your topic brother Mark! I too am of that faith.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44931.msg1362994#msg1362994 date=1310328839]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362767#msg1362767 date=1310298607]
Barnes, bar THAT goal for England did fuck all on the international stage, & wasn't exactly creating headlines at Watford.
[/quote]
Bollocks Jon.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think Barnes had been widely lauded as a special talent.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362767#msg1362767 date=1310298607]
Barnes, bar THAT goal for England did fuck all on the international stage, & wasn't exactly creating headlines at Watford.
[/quote]
Bollocks Jon.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think Barnes had been widely lauded as a special talent.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Downing is now Barnes and therefore better than losing Mascherano and Alonso.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1363013#msg1363013 date=1310332762]
Downing is now Barnes and therefore better than losing Mascherano and Alonso.
[/quote]
Exactly what I said that, word for word.
Downing is now Barnes and therefore better than losing Mascherano and Alonso.
[/quote]
Exactly what I said that, word for word.
Parry bought Barnes anyway, not Kenny.
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