Downing

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362503#msg1362503 date=1310233348]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362501#msg1362501 date=1310233231]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362497#msg1362497 date=1310233024]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362495#msg1362495 date=1310232833]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
[/quote]

I agree, but that's essentially the problem. He adds exactly what a player who cost 8m added.
[/quote]


You're not seriously comparing Riera to Downing??
[/quote]

You just did. Quite rightly too.
[/quote]

lol yes.....it is the most relevant example there can be....and Downing would kill to have Riera's touch...

Riera has played more for Spain than Downing has played for England. We know which is the tougher team to get into......

If anything, if you find this as a ridiculous comparison because Downing is so much superior, then you can't clearly be impartial in this debate.

 

[Hansern]

Ha, you're not reading that right Ross.
Riera was the latest natural left winger we had at the club. Thats the comparison. Downing is a better player, more consistent and seems to get better with age. Riera has a few good games pr season.

Being a natural winger he gave the team balance. With Downing it will be even better

 

[KopKing]

Downing's a lot better than some posters give him credit for. £20m isn't unreasonable for a premiership proven English international midfielder. He scores goals, can cross a ball, gets assists and is quite quick. More importantly, he's what we need and he wants to play for us.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=44931.msg1362508#msg1362508 date=1310233698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362503#msg1362503 date=1310233348]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362501#msg1362501 date=1310233231]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362497#msg1362497 date=1310233024]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362495#msg1362495 date=1310232833]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
[/quote]

I agree, but that's essentially the problem. He adds exactly what a player who cost 8m added.
[/quote]


You're not seriously comparing Riera to Downing??
[/quote]

You just did. Quite rightly too.
[/quote]

lol yes.....it is the most relevant example there can be....and Downing would kill to have Riera's touch...

Riera has played more for Spain than Downing has played for England. We know which is the tougher team to get into......

If anything, if you find this as a ridiculous comparison because Downing is so much superior, then you can't clearly be impartial in this debate.
[/quote]

Errr.. that's a pretty shit argument, Riera had his best spell of International recognition when he (briefly) played for us, where's his Spain call ups now?

Riera made 16 appearances for Spain, to Downing's 27 England appearances. Proper homework done there.

 

[Squiggles]

Occupying the English left wing is not a sign of being an £20M player.


It's a sign of being an Englishman. With a pulse.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1362512#msg1362512 date=1310234078]
Occupying the English left wing is not a sign of being an £20M player.


It's a sign of being an Englishman. With a pulse.
[/quote]

Hahaha.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44931.msg1362511#msg1362511 date=1310233965]

Errr.. that's a pretty shit argument, Riera had his best spell of International recognition when he (briefly) played for us, where's his Spain call ups now?

Riera made 16 appearances for Spain, to Downing's 27 England appearances. Proper homework done there.
[/quote]

Errr...My argument was - if you really believe comparing Riera and Downing was ridiculous because Downing is so much superior to Riera then you are biased and not fit to argue in this debate. Do you disagree with that?

Because "Riera had his best spell of International recognition when he (briefly) played for us, where's his Spain call ups now?" .....irrelevant point to this debate. Doesn't matter a diddly squat.

Getting into that Spain is a mark of quality as they can easily field two teams that are comforably better than anything England can field and especially in the midfield. Rierra has done that which is a better amount. So there is no shame in comparing the two of them...which is this ridiculous thing Rosco had just said(OMG..right???) .If you are going to hang on to the semantics of the actual number of appearance and ignore the real point....be my guest...

 

[Rosco]

I'm apologising in advance for doing this. But it's needed. I apologise for the shit quoting too.

Past comments by FFF on Downing:


http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25116.msg614723#msg614723

I dont want Downing. Vastly overrated IMO.

Keane & Barry I'm reasonably happy with.

Keane, Barry & Silva, then I'd be well happy.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=33230.msg857607#msg857607

Better than Riera & Babel though, so albeit a very small improvement, it's an improvement nonetheless.

That said I believe we need real pace & incision on the left, neither Riera or Downing offer that.

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=25380.msg623175#msg623175 date=1216473433]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=25380.msg623173#msg623173 date=1216473292]
if you believe the Echo, Rafa has never rated Bentley

Yet he likes Downing.. Oh dear.

*sobs*


http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25423.msg625017#msg625017
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=25423.msg625012#msg625012 date=1216717183]
Downing, Riera, Milner - all have a common theme - they're fucking shite.


[/quote]
Hahaha
*adds succinct to list of Sunny's qualities, just above subtlety*[/quote]




Previous comments by Sheik on Downing:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=22198.msg531639#msg531639

Downing. No thanks.
Lennon. No thanks

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25116.msg622100#msg622100

[quote author=Milner link=topic=25116.msg622098#msg622098 date=1216335166]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=25116.msg621644#msg621644 date=1216293968]
Look, I'll be totally honest. I've only ever seen Downing play for England and in the UEFA Cup. I've barely seen him in the PL, so maybe my opinion of his abilities is unfairly skewed. But I can honestly say that he's one of the worst international players I've *ever* seen. He seems to me to have no skill, vision or touch at all. His modus operandi - in the ten or so matches I've seen - is to push the ball past the right-back and run as fast as he can. If the defender's slow and/or thick, he gets to the byline and gets a cross in. If not, he gets tackled. That's all I've ever seen him do, apart from that goal against us last season. Please tell me what aspects of his game I'm missing out on.
[/quote]
I'm right with you on that one, i don't pretend to have seen his every game but i really don't see anything about him at all.

I would go on but Mark would just shout at me again (considers risking a tongue sticking out smilie)
[/quote]

I think I covered this earlier in the thread. Stuart Downing is fucking shite and exactly the player we shouldn't be wasting yet more money on.



http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=23309.msg564070#msg564070

[quote author=valley boyo link=topic=23309.msg564068#msg564068 date=1210195695]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=23309.msg564051#msg564051 date=1210194617]
If anyone even considered for a split second paying that amount of money for Downing, they need to be put down. He's no better than the £11m Babel that we bought who can play there or no better than Jermaine Pennant who can also play there.
[/quote]



I'd be happy with a stright swap for voronin
[/quote]

I'd swap a one legged lobotomised fucking gerbil for that useless fucker so that ain't saying much mate.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=43780.msg1260038#msg1260038

I'll start getting excited when we start actually signing people but Warnock and Downing don't get the juices flowing.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25724.msg633493#msg633493

I don't want to see Downing anywhere near a Liverpool shirt. He's fucking crap.

Hansern's comment on Downing:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=33456.msg865454#msg865454

I want to sign Robben or Silva. Both can operate on either flank and will give us a new dimension attackingwise.
Thats what we need.

Stewart Downing is good, but not much of an improvement on Rieria.
He only plays on the right for Boro, as Southgate hasn't got a clue about tactics and management.

Mark1975

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25452.msg626065#msg626065

I think there's a balance to be found, my main gripe (as you well know) is that we haven't spent well outwide at all under Rafa, and concentrating on overly attack minded fullbacks (as it would seem) while throwing money away on attacking midfielders of the quality of Pennant, Yossi, Downing and Milner (if reports are to be believed), it all seems a tad stupid and short sighted.

Spidey:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=26438.msg656220#msg656220

that what I think will happen, barry and us playing 433 (barry left/gerrard right)

my order of preference
barry - will be very pleased with this signing
downing - MEH!




riera - will be gutted by this signing, slow and doesn't score goals so what's the fucking point?

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=26013.msg642290#msg642290

[quote author=M_B link=topic=26013.msg642289#msg642289 date=1218457520]
If Silva leaves, its going to be to Barcelona no ?

It does beg the question of who is next in the list however. Downing maybe ?


[/quote]

oh fucks sakes... 🙁
[/quote]



I think my work here is done, and I realise I'm a massive cunt for doing this. Soz.

 

[redsar]

I'm sure there are quite a few wingers of Downing's quality (at least), only younger and available at half the price. We should take a bit more risk and search for talent outside UK. What about South America, Africa, Eastern Europe... French and Portuguese clubs are able to unearth gems every year. Buy them cheap and than make big money selling them couple of years after. Our scouting network seems amateurish and unevolved to put it mildly.

 

[kingjulian]

In their defense...

1. They don't think we can attract those big names anymore. Compared to those heady days when we were the toast of Europe.
2. They also think Downing has improved (Which is true, indeed)

But has he really gone from being compared to Penanat to the best option we can get right now and worth whatever money we pay for him?

They think so, and we disagree.....i just hope we don't find out. Let's just get someone better. There is still a lot of time in this transfer window.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's ok Ross, I've said all along that Downing wouldn't be my first choice and the quote about spending that much on him was from a time when we had no money to spend in the first place. Now we do. Players have come, players have gone. Downing has improved. Rafa was manager, I'm prepared to give Kenny my trust in the transfer market until he proves otherwise. Different ball game.

 

[Fabio]

I'd like to say at this point that riera is better than mata, as mata is playing for the under 21s as a 23 year old, if we're bringing meaningless international caps in to this

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1362528#msg1362528 date=1310237333]
I'd like to say at this point that riera is better than mata, as mata is playing for the under 21s as a 23 year old, if we're bringing meaningless international caps in to this
[/quote]

You are better than that mate. The real issue was not who had more international cap. It is a simple question - Is comparing Riera to Downing a ridiculous proposition? If you think yes, as Mark and Hansern do, then i just think you are incapable of being impartial in this debate. Don't try to steer this into some other different tangent that is entirely not the point...

Tell me if i'm wrong in saying that. If not tell me why Downing is so much superior to Riera? What does he have?

 

[Fabio]

I understand the comparison, I do. Honestly. But I think people are using riera to beat downing with as riera never set anything alight.

Downing offers more ability with more consistency. Something we've missed for a good few years.

 

[Fabio]

Downing is quicker, more consistent, better crossing, better from set pieces, better mentality (don't think downing punched a team mate... allegedly)

 

[Squiggles]

Downing may well have improved since some of those comments, but not enough to justify the sheer polarisation of views expressed.

 

[Molbystwin]

We can buy better players with more talent/potential than Stewart Downing for 20M.

It's always the way on forums that through reasoned logic, common sense and honed argument a position is reached which is nonsense.... We find ourselves 56 pages in expected to believe that Stewart Downing at the best part of 20 million quid is a good sense deal.

All your reasoning and arguments.... stick em... you are just plain and simply wrong and have reasoned your heads right the way round to tightly tuck em up your ass. Look at the name and look at the number next to it and wise the fuck up.


No offence like but... Thats the way i feel about 20M for Downing.... fucking crazy.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Amusing post by Rosco ;D

im sure there will be talk on the context of a post though

 

[Fabio]

Least i've avoided the eye of ross

I can't remember what I said last week let alone a while ago.

 

[spider-Neil]

Can nothing said in the past stay in the past? 😉
I'm dreading my 'we should go for bent rather than torres' comments being dragged up.
To be fair downing has just had an excellent season, surely you have a right to change your mind on ever improving players, who rated lampard before he went to Chelsea?

 

[Fabio]

Re: Re: Downing

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1362543#msg1362543 date=1310240292]
Can nothing said in the past stay in the past? 😉
I'm dreading my 'we should go for bent rather than Torres' comments being dragged up.
To be fair downing has just had an excellent season, surely you have a right to change your mind on ever improving players, who rated lampard before he went to Chelsea?
[/quote]

Tbf spidey, I said the bent thing like 3 weeks ago. So I'll go down swinging with ya!




Or to put it nonsexually... I'll watch your back




God dammit

 

[Squiggles]

The preference to Silva over Downing was the real highlight.

 

[Fabio]

Yes because he's the better player?

*confused*

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362521#msg1362521 date=1310236400]
I'm apologising in advance for doing this. But it's needed. I apologise for the shit quoting too.

Past comments by FFF on Downing:


http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25116.msg614723#msg614723

I dont want Downing. Vastly overrated IMO.

Keane & Barry I'm reasonably happy with.

Keane, Barry & Silva, then I'd be well happy.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=33230.msg857607#msg857607

Better than Riera & Babel though, so albeit a very small improvement, it's an improvement nonetheless.

That said I believe we need real pace & incision on the left, neither Riera or Downing offer that.

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=25380.msg623175#msg623175 date=1216473433]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=25380.msg623173#msg623173 date=1216473292]
if you believe the Echo, Rafa has never rated Bentley

Yet he likes Downing.. Oh dear.

*sobs*


http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25423.msg625017#msg625017
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=25423.msg625012#msg625012 date=1216717183]
Downing, Riera, Milner - all have a common theme - they're fucking shite.


[/quote]
Hahaha
*adds succinct to list of Sunny's qualities, just above subtlety*[/quote]




Previous comments by Sheik on Downing:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=22198.msg531639#msg531639

Downing. No thanks.
Lennon. No thanks

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25116.msg622100#msg622100

[quote author=Milner link=topic=25116.msg622098#msg622098 date=1216335166]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=25116.msg621644#msg621644 date=1216293968]
Look, I'll be totally honest. I've only ever seen Downing play for England and in the UEFA Cup. I've barely seen him in the PL, so maybe my opinion of his abilities is unfairly skewed. But I can honestly say that he's one of the worst international players I've *ever* seen. He seems to me to have no skill, vision or touch at all. His modus operandi - in the ten or so matches I've seen - is to push the ball past the right-back and run as fast as he can. If the defender's slow and/or thick, he gets to the byline and gets a cross in. If not, he gets tackled. That's all I've ever seen him do, apart from that goal against us last season. Please tell me what aspects of his game I'm missing out on.
[/quote]
I'm right with you on that one, i don't pretend to have seen his every game but i really don't see anything about him at all.

I would go on but Mark would just shout at me again (considers risking a tongue sticking out smilie)
[/quote]

I think I covered this earlier in the thread. Stuart Downing is fucking shite and exactly the player we shouldn't be wasting yet more money on.



http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=23309.msg564070#msg564070

[quote author=valley boyo link=topic=23309.msg564068#msg564068 date=1210195695]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=23309.msg564051#msg564051 date=1210194617]
If anyone even considered for a split second paying that amount of money for Downing, they need to be put down. He's no better than the £11m Babel that we bought who can play there or no better than Jermaine Pennant who can also play there.
[/quote]



I'd be happy with a stright swap for voronin
[/quote]

I'd swap a one legged lobotomised fucking gerbil for that useless fucker so that ain't saying much mate.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=43780.msg1260038#msg1260038

I'll start getting excited when we start actually signing people but Warnock and Downing don't get the juices flowing.

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25724.msg633493#msg633493

I don't want to see Downing anywhere near a Liverpool shirt. He's fucking crap.

Hansern's comment on Downing:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=33456.msg865454#msg865454

I want to sign Robben or Silva. Both can operate on either flank and will give us a new dimension attackingwise.
Thats what we need.

Stewart Downing is good, but not much of an improvement on Rieria.
He only plays on the right for Boro, as Southgate hasn't got a clue about tactics and management.

Mark1975

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=25452.msg626065#msg626065

I think there's a balance to be found, my main gripe (as you well know) is that we haven't spent well outwide at all under Rafa, and concentrating on overly attack minded fullbacks (as it would seem) while throwing money away on attacking midfielders of the quality of Pennant, Yossi, Downing and Milner (if reports are to be believed), it all seems a tad stupid and short sighted.

Spidey:

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=26438.msg656220#msg656220

that what I think will happen, barry and us playing 433 (barry left/gerrard right)

my order of preference
barry - will be very pleased with this signing
downing - MEH!




riera - will be gutted by this signing, slow and doesn't score goals so what's the fucking point?

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=26013.msg642290#msg642290

[quote author=M_B link=topic=26013.msg642289#msg642289 date=1218457520]
If Silva leaves, its going to be to Barcelona no ?

It does beg the question of who is next in the list however. Downing maybe ?


[/quote]

oh fucks sakes... 🙁
[/quote]



I think my work here is done, and I realise I'm a massive cunt for doing this. Soz.
[/quote]

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1362548#msg1362548 date=1310241196]
Yes because he's the better player?

*confused*
[/quote]

But now Mata represents a risk too great.

 

[spider-Neil]

If we were in the CL and had a blank cheque then downing wouldn't be my first choice but I can totally see the thinking of buying someone like downing and I can see why we are paying a premium for him.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1362532#msg1362532 date=1310237956]
I understand the comparison, I do. Honestly. But I think people are using riera to beat downing with as riera never set anything alight.

Downing offers more ability with more consistency. Something we've missed for a good few years.
[/quote]

Riera never set anything alight. Downing never set anything alight, he won't too.

Downing is quicker but not by much and Albert Riera still has the better touch and was better at beating a man and getting to the bi-line. Downing has a crossing accuracy of 24%, in our team he wont get as many chance to play crosses in all day long in the hope that one of them clicks. The season before Pennant signed people were crowing about how he had delivered the highest number of crosses in the league for Birmingham. He didn't really get to deliver all those crosses for us, did he? Riera has actually scored from set-pieces, and also lets face it, with Adam in and others like Gerrard, Aurelio, Meireles in the team ....it's safe to assume Downing won't be on the set-piece duty for us. Just as he is never given that duty for England. So it is a moot-point. Better mentality.....if we paid nearly 12million pound more for better mentality, i don't really know what to say.

Their goals/assist statistics are pretty much identical.....so there is every reason to beat down the proposed Downing sighing with Riera, to suggest it's a ridiculous comparison is preposterous and not a very constructive way of arguing this.

From EPL i'd rather we signed Matt Jarvis or N'Zogbia based on the below stats. Plus, they would cost a damned sight less than 20 million.

http://www.anfieldindex.com/2553/liverpool-fc-transfers-premier-league-winger-scouting-stats.html

Yet, we have some claiming here that Downing has to be the one and only player we go after and we should spend whatever they ask for him.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

He's above average, he's not my first choice, he's better than what we've got, if he's the only one we can get we should get him and if we were prepared to pay £16m for Henderson then £18m for Downing is pretty much in line with that. Is it too much? Yes. But that's the way football is.

 

[keniget]

If no one wants to come to us, why does Downing want to?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=44931.msg1362552#msg1362552 date=1310241398]


Yet, we have some claiming here that Downing has to be the one and only player we go after
[/quote]

No there isn't but carry on making things up to make your point.