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Downing

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[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1362469#msg1362469 date=1310231164]
Ross, you're viewing individual players and their value like cars or something. The value of a player is the difference he makes to the team and its results (and through that to the brand) not his skills or tekkers or whatever.
[/quote]

Right Gene, so what value do you think Downing has - because based on that I don't think it's much. Way less than anyone has estimated thus far.
 
Who would you sign Ross that will bring to the team what Downing the ability to do?
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1362434#msg1362434 date=1310225581]
Disagree over young. He's not a better player

Jones was overpriced (and 20m+ with add ons)

I wouldn't like to spend 20m on downing, but I'm realistic enough to know we'll struggle to find better who WANTS to come to us
[/quote]

All due respect to Fabio and FFF, i'm totally not buying this logic...

-> No other player is going to come to us...therefore Downing should be our first choice
-> It never works for us when we don't pay up the money demanded for our first choice player
-> Therefore we should pay whatever it is Villa are demanding for Downing as he is our first choice...

I hope you all see the fallacy in that logic and stop this tiring thing....let's just wait patiently and see what happens. None of us have any control over this anyway.
 
On a sidenote...what makes you all so sure that Downing wants to come to us ? Where is the transfer request?

I ask because you are as sure about this as you are with the fact that no other players wants to come here...
 
I give up.

We'll sign Downing & he'll prove his worth to the team no end. Never mind how much he cost.

He will be the best left winger we've had for two decades. That is worth a LOT in a number of ways, not just looking at him.

As a team we will more balanced than we've been in a similar number of years.

To not buy downing & play another season with no left winger in the hope that we'll be in a position to attract a better player next season is ridiculous.

BTW, our maximum price is 18m, a little birdie tells me.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=44931.msg1362479#msg1362479 date=1310232013]
On a sidenote...what makes you all so sure that Downing wants to come to us ? Where is the transfer request?

I ask because you are as sure about this as you are with the fact that no other players wants to come here...


[/quote]

Hahaha. He wants to come to us.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362481#msg1362481 date=1310232131]
I give up.

We'll sign Downing & he'll prove his worth to the team no end. Never mind how much he cost.

He will be the best left winger we've had for two decades. That is worth a LOT in a number of ways, not just looking at him.

As a team we will more balanced than we've been in a similar number of years.

To not buy downing & play another season with no left winger in the hope that we'll be in a position to attract a better player next season is ridiculous.

BTW, our maximum price is 18m, a little birdie tells me.
[/quote]

Fuckin A
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
 
You can say that about most left sided players in the Premiership.

Being better than what we've got isn't just cause to spend £18M on a player.

Mata would be a much wiser investment.
 
It's like we're about to start a bicycle race and we don't have a left peddle. There's a guy at the start line offering to sell us a good one for $20 and we're saying no way a peddle is only worth $15.

The prize money for winning the race is $40 and we'd have a chance of winning some prize money if we only had a peddle but fuck it, we're nobody's fool. No way we'll pay $20 for a $15 peddle.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Theres no way you can truly believe that.
 
But we're not about to start a race, Gene.


We've got plenty of time to consider other, better peddles.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1362487#msg1362487 date=1310232708]
It's like we're about to start a bicycle race and we don't have a left peddle. There's a guy at the start line offering to sell us a good one for $20 and we're saying no way a peddle is only worth $15.

The prize money for winning the race is $40 and we'd have a chance of winning some prize money if we only had a peddle but fuck it, we're nobody's fool. No way we'll pay $20 for a $15 peddle.
[/quote]

But let's say it your bike has two flat tires as well. The lack of the left pedal won't be the reason you don't win the race - save your money.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1362486#msg1362486 date=1310232586]
You can say that about most left sided players in the Premiership.

Being better than what we've got isn't just cause to spend £18M on a player.

Mata would be a much wiser investment.
[/quote]

I'd rather spend £18m to improve an area than not just because he's not deemed 'worth' it. If he helps us back into the Champions League then we will have recovered the difference between what he is and isn't worth and then some.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
 
Sheik, that's an attitude I would accept if the window was about to close and we really needed someone urgently.


But it's not something I will subscribe to when there's better players out there who are in a similar price bracket.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362495#msg1362495 date=1310232833]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
[/quote]

I agree, but that's essentially the problem. He adds exactly what a player who cost 8m added.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1362486#msg1362486 date=1310232586]
You can say that about most left sided players in the Premiership.

Being better than what we've got isn't just cause to spend £18M on a player.

Mata would be a much wiser investment.
[/quote]

He's not a left winger. He plays where suarez does.

Therefore to play him on the left wing we'd be putting a square peg in a round hole. Again.

How do you all know he'll adapt to the Premiership? He is a risk, not a wise investment at all, yes, it might pay off, but it might go tits up too.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362482#msg1362482 date=1310232191]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=44931.msg1362479#msg1362479 date=1310232013]
On a sidenote...what makes you all so sure that Downing wants to come to us ? Where is the transfer request?

I ask because you are as sure about this as you are with the fact that no other players wants to come here...


[/quote]

Hahaha. He wants to come to us.
[/quote]

It's not really funny for me, no. I struggle to see the funny side of it. You inundate us with a huge whopping circular logic and are laughing at us because we question it?

How do you know no body wants to come to us? Conversely, how do you know Downing wants to come to us. Your entire logic rests on him being the first choice based on these two assumptions. Why can't we question it? How are you roundly dismissing the doubts about the proposed values he adds to our squad, which we feel is fairly over-estimated?and why only he alone can add those values? He has after-all had one decent season.

You may be in the know about us paying 18 million for him, but you know as much as his average detractors(who knows nothing) about how successful he will be, so there is no need to be high-handed about this.

I really hope this transfer doesn't go through, as much as i was hoping for the alleged Roy Hodgson appointment to be un-true at that time. In any case I just this doesn't turn out to be the stick that people beat Kenny with, as it happened with Robby Keane & Rafa. I want Kenny to be a success at any cost.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1362496#msg1362496 date=1310233006]
Sheik, that's an attitude I would accept if the window was about to close and we really needed someone urgently.


But it's not something I will subscribe to when there's better players out there who are in a similar price bracket.
[/quote]

And as it has been said, we haven't got a clue if these better players want to even join us.
So, do we sit there and say, right, we're not going to buy anyone then, we'll wait and wait until some superstar does decide to? Could be 6 months. Could be 6 years.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362497#msg1362497 date=1310233024]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362495#msg1362495 date=1310232833]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
[/quote]

I agree, but that's essentially the problem. He adds exactly what a player who cost 8m added.
[/quote]


You're not seriously comparing Riera to Downing??
 
Mata plays an entirely different role to Suarez. He doesn't pop up all over the pitch in the same way Suarez does and for Valencia has played in a disciplined LW role.


The two are more than capable of playing in the same side together.


I've seen both play a load of matches and I think it's pretty obvious who the £18-20M player is.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362501#msg1362501 date=1310233231]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362497#msg1362497 date=1310233024]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=44931.msg1362495#msg1362495 date=1310232833]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362485#msg1362485 date=1310232461]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362484#msg1362484 date=1310232335]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1362478#msg1362478 date=1310231855]
What does Downing bring to the team ?
[/quote]

More than any other left winger we currently have on our books.
[/quote]

It's marginal.
[/quote]

Thats just stupid Ross, you're obvs taking the piss.

Width
Left peg
Crossing ability
Goals and assists

We have zero natural wingers in the squad

Even though Riera was just a decent player, we played some of our best football with him in the team. Its called balance.
[/quote]

I agree, but that's essentially the problem. He adds exactly what a player who cost 8m added.
[/quote]


You're not seriously comparing Riera to Downing??
[/quote]

You just did. Quite rightly too.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1362500#msg1362500 date=1310233182]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=44931.msg1362496#msg1362496 date=1310233006]
Sheik, that's an attitude I would accept if the window was about to close and we really needed someone urgently.


But it's not something I will subscribe to when there's better players out there who are in a similar price bracket.
[/quote]

And as it has been said, we haven't got a clue if these better players want to even join us.
So, do we sit there and say, right, we're not going to buy anyone then, we'll wait and wait until some superstar does decide to? Could be 6 months. Could be 6 years.
[/quote]

You don't know we haven't tried. I don't know we have.

But whatever is the case, Downing at £18M is not a satisfying conclusion.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1362481#msg1362481 date=1310232131]
I give up.

We'll sign Downing & he'll prove his worth to the team no end. Never mind how much he cost.

He will be the best left winger we've had for two decades. That is worth a LOT in a number of ways, not just looking at him.

As a team we will more balanced than we've been in a similar number of years.

To not buy downing & play another season with no left winger in the hope that we'll be in a position to attract a better player next season is ridiculous.

BTW, our maximum price is 18m, a little birdie tells me.
[/quote]

This.
 
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