Diaz/Mane

[mwake]

Diaz is/has been a revelation, a fantastic player. However, the one area that Mane trumps most forwards is in his off-the-ball play. Manes off the ball attacking AND defensive play were totally underrated. We are seeing a bit of the impact of losing Manes intelligent pressing. Its not to say Diaz hasn't been good at pressing but Mane always pressed and moved off the ball in such a clever way that many of our attacks happened because of his initial endeavours.

I think Diaz can get there in time as he's only been at the club for a short-ish while but until he's able to get to those levels I think we will have some new things to deal with that we never had before Mane was in the front three.

PS - I know Diaz outplayed Mane on the left last year but I'm talking more about it from a defensive point of view. Hopefully, Nunez can come in and take some of the pressing burdens, but it all seems like a work in progress.

I know I got to let Mane go emotionally but Mein Gott I miss him!

 

[mom]

Mané was criminally underrated for a long while. Apparently, if you don’t score thirty a season, you’re crap.

 

[dmishra]

I think the biggest difference is in the upper body strength. Mane was strong as fuck and thus his hold up play was far superior as he'd be difficult to dispossess. Defenders also were scared to get too tight to him, because there was the threat that he'd simply outmuscle them or turn them. They would rather hold off and let him run at them. That just created more space and time and opportunity for others to join the attacking play.

With Diaz, they're far more comfortable meeting him on the flank and making the shoulder barge challenge knowing they're likely to win that duel. And you can see that happening all the time.

What Diaz needs is a beast of a no. 9 who can keep the CBs occupied himself and hold the play up himself . Hopefully that is what Darwin turns out to be.

I think if Darwin struggles at hold-up play, we'll need to change the way we construct our new midfield and focus on more technical and creative players through the middle.

 

[Farkmaster]

Mane was a superior player to Salah. I've always thought that, but I've never really rated Salah to the extent that most do, even when he's been on form. I have never thought he's a world class player, whatever the fuck that means. I've just thought he was a very good goalscorer on an amazingly productive team playing to his strengths. I think that if we weren't going to push to maintain our challenge broadly, and I could keep one of them, it wouldn't be Salah. Salah is more useful on an excellent team. Mane could help any team in the world, even now, he could play on some dire team in the bottom of the league and improve them. Salah would just get isolated. I also think that Mane is more versatile than Salah because he's just a better player technically, and more well rounded. Since we are that dire team at the moment, I'm not surprised he's not stamping his authority on the game. I've never found him to be a player who turns a game around that is going against us. I've been distinctly underwhelmed by his performances in some big games. I thought it was a mistake to extend his contract, and said so at the time.

Nevertheless, if we had a Firmino of 3-4 years ago, Diaz would have more goals, and create more problems. But, we don't have that either. If Nunez can occupy a couple centerbacks without getting sent off, he'll do some of that job.

The other piece is that both of our fullbacks aren't as active as they used to be. Which is probably inevitable, because their movement back a few years ago is something you can't really sustain through a career, even if you aren't that old. It was like young Steven Gerrard mode, pure energy. We used to create really challenging questions out wide, due to how early our fullbacks were up the pitch, it wasn't about just a one on one. But, with less mobile midfield cover, the fullbacks are in a no-mans land where they aren't pressing but they aren't really defending when we are in transition.

 

[rubans]

He ain’t no Mane but I don’t there is a like for like anywhere in the world, so it’s just acceptable fact of changeover…

 

[RedStar]

Mané had a tremendous amount of fight in him, he was a thoroughbred with the attitude of a mongrel. Those players are rare as fuck.

I think Diaz is a better dribbler and more skillful than Mané, but he doesn't have the same end product.

 

[Red Astaire]

Mane was ace but he was a right mardy sod. Love my Diaz.

 

[Frogfish]

Mané had a tremendous amount of fight in him, he was a thoroughbred with the attitude of a mongrel. Those players are rare as fuck.

I think Diaz is a better dribbler and more skillful than Mané, but he doesn't have the same end product.

It's really early days re. end product, Diaz is 25 yrs old and just starting his career at Liverpool, in a side undergoing a major revision, whereas we've been watching Mane perform at the peak of his career (surrounded by other players at their peak in possibly, at times, the best Liverpool side of all time) for 6 years, so it's natural to remember his highlights. For the first half of last season most of this board thought Mane was in serious decline, and we should get shut ASAP, before he turned the tap back on in the second half.

 

[Brizzle]

Diaz is also entering a different team - I think he would tear it up if we were playing teams who were stand-offish or let us play on the counter attack. He also has a significantly less effective full back and midfield around him than Mane did.

Mane was definitely a more savvy attacker, but Diaz feels more creative and threatening in earlier build up play.

If our front three was Salah Mane and Diaz it would actually be frightening, and hopefully Nunez is able to grow into that role properly.

 

[Frogfish]

Diaz is also entering a different team - I think he would tear it up if we were playing teams who were stand-offish or let us play on the counter attack. He also has a significantly less effective full back and midfield around him than Mane did.

Mane was definitely a more savvy attacker, but Diaz feels more creative and threatening in earlier build up play.

If our front three was Salah Mane and Diaz it would actually be frightening, and hopefully Nunez is able to grow into that role properly.

It's also notable how many of Mane's goals came not from his supposed technical prowess or skill on the ball but simply by getting on the end of passes and crosses in the penalty area, something Nunez does brilliantly (but from closer, inside the 6 yd box) which isn't Diaz's forte. I see Diaz as more of a creative whilst Nunez is actually Mane's replacement as far as goal scoring goes.

Diaz, Nunez (Jota) & Mo. still looks like an exciting front line.

 

[Hansern]

We bought Mane when he was the same age as Diaz is now. They're no doubt different as players but I'd like to see how Klopp intends to shape him into the team. He's struggling a bit now as the rest of our team, but there have been enough performances so far to show what he can offer. His work rate, speed and intensity is second to none.
He was playing like two players after Nunez was sent off.

Mane was a fantastic header of the ball and scored loads of goals from crosses and set pieces. That is not something Diaz will replicate.
Mane scored 13 goals in his first season for us. Dont think its unlikely that Diaz gets the same amount this season.

 

[Brizzle]

Having Jota back will be great too, he's a fighter and also adds a great dimension with his head.

 

[binomial]

Mané was criminally underrated for a long while. Apparently, if you don’t score thirty a season, you’re crap.

& sadly this is how I feel many will take to Diaz when really it's just missing Sadio more than we care to admit.

 

[binomial]

I personally feel fans are pushing too hard to look for areas to why we've started so poorly.

Yes Mane is a big miss but it's not the reason why we've not got more points on the board.

Comparing Diaz and Sadio is fine I get that but it's pointless reflecting any kind of blame on anyone else other than those responsible.

We've lost 3 senior attacking options and effectively replaced them with a teenager and a out and out striker (who I have no doubt about)....but it's lacking & I still think our lack of goal threat from midfield is a worry.

 

[Farkmaster]

I think you can think of our goals as coming from midfield in terms of destructively gaining us space when the opposition is in transition. Lots of legs are required to do that and we haven't got fresh ones.

I don't think if you gave Klopp free reign to pick anyone he wanted in the world, you'd necessarily see many midfielders with lots of goals in them.

 

[LarryHagman]

Diaz is a good player but he doesn't look to be anything like the goal threat Mane was. That's going to put pressure on Nunez and why I think we should be looking to include Jota, even if it means a formation change. Otherwise we could be looking at a much reduced goal tally this season.

 

[Frogfish]

Diaz is a good player but he doesn't look to be anything like the goal threat Mane was. That's going to put pressure on Nunez and why I think we should be looking to include Jota, even if it means a formation change. Otherwise we could be looking at a much reduced goal tally this season.

Mane = Nunez
Firmino = Diaz
With Jota & Mo playing their usual roles I think we'll be just fine as far as scoring goes.

 

[StevieM]

I think the loss of Jota to injury is one of our biggest problems.

Despite what he cost - I really would have preferred that Nunez spent the first month or two acclimatising to the EPL and coming off the bench to run at defences mid second half.

Jota’s intelligent movement and positional rotation with Diaz would have been good too.

 

[Fabio]

I think as the season progresses and Darwin improves, that'll open space up for Diaz.

The slow start, and lack of a proper number 9 means he's getting doubled up on. He'll be fine. Probably not mane levels, but tbh, few players would be

 

[dmishra]

Still supremely irritated at Darwin's stupidity. That has cost us so much.

 

[Judge Jules]

I think the loss of Jota to injury is one of our biggest problems.

Despite what he cost - I really would have preferred that Nunez spent the first month or two acclimatising to the EPL and coming off the bench to run at defences mid second half.

Jota’s intelligent movement and positional rotation with Diaz would have been good too.

This. Big signings didn't often go straight into the team in our earlier glory days and we shouldn't feel press-ganged into changing that merely because we paid a lot for any given player.

 

[juniormember]

I think the loss of Jota to injury is one of our biggest problems.

Despite what he cost - I really would have preferred that Nunez spent the first month or two acclimatising to the EPL and coming off the bench to run at defences mid second half.

Jota’s intelligent movement and positional rotation with Diaz would have been good too.

Yeah, and the hope is that Darwin can also move to the left during games so Diaz can get into some space further inside. And it should be possible considering Darwin played a load of games on the left at his previous club.

 

[MomoWASright]

This. Big signings didn't often go straight into the team in our earlier glory days and we shouldn't feel press-ganged into changing that merely because we paid a lot for any given player.

I know you referenced early glory days but that doesn’t happen these days.

Mané
Salah
Van Dijk
Alisson
Diaz
Jota

All went straight into the side.

 

[Fabio]

Tbh, More signings go straight in to the side than not. Only fabinho and Robertson didn't really. And I don't think any of us expected much from robbo

 

[Judge Jules]

Indeed. My point is not that it doesn't or should never happen. The point I'm making is that it shouldn't happen automatically - for example, IMO Stevie is spot on saying it would have been better had Nunez been phased in.

 

[jexykrodic]

Indeed. My point is not that it doesn't or should never happen. The point I'm making is that it shouldn't happen automatically - for example, IMO Stevie is spot on saying it would have been better had Nunez been phased in.

He might have been had Jota been available?

 

[Judge Jules]

Could well be, depending I guess on form and how each was showing up in training.

 

[Fabio]

I'm unsure if bedding Darwin in slowly would have been better. The boy seems a wrecking ball of a footballer, whereas Jota knows the team and plays differently.

I think plonking him right in was the right call. His temperament was whats fucked us over

 

[Judge Jules]

Run that past us again, Fabs? Jota knows the team better and Nunez' temperament wasn't right yet, but it would still have been right to put him straight in?

 

[refugee]

He came off the bench and got an assist and goal against Fulham. He was going to start the next game, whether or not the original intention to was to bed him in slowly.

Alisson did some mad shit when he first played for us. He learned from it. They only time to be worried about this is if Nunez doesn't learn from it.