Is Lovren the most clueless fucking defender since traore. Hope he fucks off soon
Defence
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He can take mignolet and Moreno with him
Weakest and shortest squad in the league. Combine that with their lack of ability to understand zonal marking and a CB with his own owl inspired clothing brand and you're fucked on set pieces.
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So the worst is over! We're going to win the league!!
Mourinho was quoted as saying recently that a team without six players who are tall and decent in the air will get destroyed at set pieces.
Now I normally don't take much notice of what that cunt says and he was saying this in defense of his own signings but it certainly made me think of us and our relative lack of height
Now I normally don't take much notice of what that cunt says and he was saying this in defense of his own signings but it certainly made me think of us and our relative lack of height
Mignolet, Moreno, Lovren are not good enough to start for a club with ambitions to compete at the highest level. Most fans have known it for 2 years. He has had 4 transfer windows to rectify them. He hasnt. He deserves all the plaudits for getting us to fourth with that squad. He deserves every bit of flak for our defense.
Jurgen Klopp: There aren't five better centre-halves than what we already have at Liverpool.
“What I said is the truth. There is all this talking about signings and then you see Alberto Moreno - what a pre-season. You saw it. He has matured 100 per cent,” said Klopp.
Lolz
I wouldn't argue with those players not being good enough and i don't even bother saying much about Moreno anymore but apart from him the other 2 wouldn't appear on my decisions / should have done better list for today:
First goal Matip / Firmino?
Second TAA / Moreno / Can / Henderson
Third Wijnaldum / maybe others
I saw a heated debate between carra and jamie today in a news clip - I am guessing many of you here saw it too. I actually agree with Carra - I think no matter who we get for the defense - it will be the same old shit because ultimately in the way we play - the whole makeup of our team setup and approach will always leave the defense exposed in key moments of a game. If you look at our history - the successes that Rafa, and GH had was much to do with a defense first policy with potentially two CM's having a primary job of shielding the back four. We don't play like that at all these days - the focus is on an offensive strategy where midfielders are encouraged to support the front line.
Yes we do make silly individual mistakes which need to be addressed and also we do have a short (height) team - which I think is a major factor in our poor ability to deal with set pieces and defending from corners. But generally I agree with Carra - I don't know how much difference spending on a 60M player will do for us - we could be just as shit with them in the team when it comes to defending. The other top teams like Arsenal, and City play in a similar approach to us - and I don't think the money they have payed for defenders has made much difference to them - they still concede. Only United, and Chelsea - seem to benefit fully from spending large sums on defenders because the respective coaches have a defense first policy.
Yes we do make silly individual mistakes which need to be addressed and also we do have a short (height) team - which I think is a major factor in our poor ability to deal with set pieces and defending from corners. But generally I agree with Carra - I don't know how much difference spending on a 60M player will do for us - we could be just as shit with them in the team when it comes to defending. The other top teams like Arsenal, and City play in a similar approach to us - and I don't think the money they have payed for defenders has made much difference to them - they still concede. Only United, and Chelsea - seem to benefit fully from spending large sums on defenders because the respective coaches have a defense first policy.
I'm not completely comfortable with the concept of the defensive midfielder. I think all midfielders should be good at defending and attacking. When you are playing against inferior opposition, the back four should be able to look after themselves, and in that situation a defensive midfielder is redundant and you are effectively playing with ten men.
That's where I feel Benitez went wrong in the home games against the likes of Aston Villa. He liked to pick two defensive midfielders, which to me was like playing with nine men.
That's where I feel Benitez went wrong in the home games against the likes of Aston Villa. He liked to pick two defensive midfielders, which to me was like playing with nine men.
Portly - that last point about Benitez - totally agree with you. But I also think he was doing that to compensate against the other top teams in the league that had some of the best wingers playing for them. In many ways it was to deal with teams that play like the way we do - with three up front. It was frustrating and actually asked a lot of our strikers/SG at the time to do. I never understood the concept of a defensive midfielder either until France won the world cup in 98 - who I think gave fame to the idea around the world.
I think the ideal player who does that is Kante - the guy that breaks up play and moves it forward a little to the attacking midfielders etc. But I don't think in our system the players can always do attack and defense in a reliable way because the focus is to press and attack - it kinda makes them tired and leads to defensive errors inherently as a system.
That makes me think of Mascherano, who was considered a defensive midfielder but couldn't be left out of anybody's team. He covered a lot of ground robbing the opposition of the ball and feeding our attacks.
Our opponents generally score from set pieces and individual errors. I don't buy this "Klopp leaves our defenders unprotected" bullshit.
We have a bunch of weak minded, softcock journeymen playing for us at the moment. Klopp needs to sort it out and fucking destroy anybody that doesn't focus or attack the ball at set pieces. The second goal was due to Moreno jumping in and trying some bullshit scissor tackle (AGAIN).
The 3rd goal was poor awareness from Wini and some awful play from Ming, maybe it was bad luck.. but he always seems to be unlucky... I don't even know how he managed to deflect something going wide into his own net. The Fucking buffoon.
Klopp needs to sign better players*
We have a bunch of weak minded, softcock journeymen playing for us at the moment. Klopp needs to sort it out and fucking destroy anybody that doesn't focus or attack the ball at set pieces. The second goal was due to Moreno jumping in and trying some bullshit scissor tackle (AGAIN).
The 3rd goal was poor awareness from Wini and some awful play from Ming, maybe it was bad luck.. but he always seems to be unlucky... I don't even know how he managed to deflect something going wide into his own net. The Fucking buffoon.
Klopp needs to sign better players*
Yup, defenders being exposed during our attacks was not the problem, apart from when we gave away the ball stupidly around the center circle.
Our set piece defending is dire. I think it can be drilled in to a certain extent but the most important thing is whether the player has it in him or not.
You're either great in awareness and have the guts, or you don't.
Never mattered to someone like Hyppia (or Carra) when he had to go through man marking and zonal marking through different managers. He always had his house in order when defending set plays.
Our set piece defending is dire. I think it can be drilled in to a certain extent but the most important thing is whether the player has it in him or not.
You're either great in awareness and have the guts, or you don't.
Never mattered to someone like Hyppia (or Carra) when he had to go through man marking and zonal marking through different managers. He always had his house in order when defending set plays.
Is it normal for a centre back like Lovren to end up challenging for the ball in the middle circle? Or the right or left side of our defence desperately trying to get the ball away from an opponent? He ended up there on multiple occasions I am not sure on instructions or on one of his brain fart moments.
Also, why does Matip and Lovren keep losing their man? I understand we keep a relatively high line but they only have 1 striker up there and when the ball is played to that striker (he usually gets it) and it is panic stations for us. Just keep close to the striker like every good defender should. It isn't that hard.
Also, why does Matip and Lovren keep losing their man? I understand we keep a relatively high line but they only have 1 striker up there and when the ball is played to that striker (he usually gets it) and it is panic stations for us. Just keep close to the striker like every good defender should. It isn't that hard.
I think our players are abit soft and lacking aggression. We go in half hearted in challenges against these journeymen whose careers depend on brawn instead of fitnesse and we lose out.
Look at that weak ass attempt of a header by Gini for their 3rd goal. Twisting his head like that? Bend down and head it or lift a leg to whack it.
It's no surprise we play better against teams with more fitnesse. We will probably do well in Europe and get owned by the likes of Burnley, again.
Time to grow some balls.
Firmino playing that central zonal role to defend corners? What the fuck is that. The ball will often land near that area and sticking a 5 10" creative Brazilian striker there to warden the runners is suicidal. Then you look at the height of our squad and realise... oh, he's possibly the best option.
Keita won't help as its likely that he'll simply replace Can.. our only decent sized outfield player.
Mourinho is a wanker but he's aware that fitness, determination and height are as important as technique in the premier league.
Keita won't help as its likely that he'll simply replace Can.. our only decent sized outfield player.
Mourinho is a wanker but he's aware that fitness, determination and height are as important as technique in the premier league.
Klopp is a partly right about it though.
Not the centre backs are the problem, it's our defensive set-up as a whole. It stinks. We're shipping goals in left, right and centre. If he doesn't manage to change this, there's no need to buy someone like van Dijk.
Maybe he'd prevent the odd goal here and there but we shouldn't delude ourselves here. Our defensive set-up is utter shite.
I liked Klopp, always did. But if he can't sort this out - well, you know what I mean.
Not the centre backs are the problem, it's our defensive set-up as a whole. It stinks. We're shipping goals in left, right and centre. If he doesn't manage to change this, there's no need to buy someone like van Dijk.
Maybe he'd prevent the odd goal here and there but we shouldn't delude ourselves here. Our defensive set-up is utter shite.
I liked Klopp, always did. But if he can't sort this out - well, you know what I mean.
Keita won't help, as he's 5'8.
Well, this was raised as a concern after last season. Not enough nastiness, physique, height and losing just about every second ball.
Watford are a physical team and they dominsted us. No surprise.
Wrong game to play Moreno, even though he was okay in the 2nd half. But that left side of the defense shipped 2 goals.
We lack physical presence and if we dont adress it we'll continue to struggle.
Van Dijk will help but so would the likes of Kolasinac have done. Mourinho always has 6 players over 6'0 in his sides. Do they concede many goals from set pieces? Do they fuck.
I'm not saying you need 6, but bar Can none of our attacking/midfielders will do a job.
Hendo and Gini are a bit to similar, and yesterdays game cried out for the inclusion of a player like Gruijc towards the end.
Solanke as well.
And if you have to get Gomez on, sub Moreno.
The PL is a physical League and it looks like Klopp still hasnt decided that we're a bunch of shithouses and need some nastiness.
Moreno will never be good enough as a left back for a PL team. Disapointing that we started with him. Really poor.
Watford are a physical team and they dominsted us. No surprise.
Wrong game to play Moreno, even though he was okay in the 2nd half. But that left side of the defense shipped 2 goals.
We lack physical presence and if we dont adress it we'll continue to struggle.
Van Dijk will help but so would the likes of Kolasinac have done. Mourinho always has 6 players over 6'0 in his sides. Do they concede many goals from set pieces? Do they fuck.
I'm not saying you need 6, but bar Can none of our attacking/midfielders will do a job.
Hendo and Gini are a bit to similar, and yesterdays game cried out for the inclusion of a player like Gruijc towards the end.
Solanke as well.
And if you have to get Gomez on, sub Moreno.
The PL is a physical League and it looks like Klopp still hasnt decided that we're a bunch of shithouses and need some nastiness.
Moreno will never be good enough as a left back for a PL team. Disapointing that we started with him. Really poor.
I remember when Guardiola was at Barcelona, he was talking about their pressing game and said something along the lines of him being nervous when his team don't have the ball.
That's how I feel with this Liverpool team. We are a horrible horrible team defensively. So were / are Barca but they had players like Messi and Xavi and Iniesta and Eto'o and no-one could get near them.
We don't have players like that and we aren't going to get them. What's more the likelihood of all the chips falling into place and us transcending into a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts to the extent that we can blow away all before us is slim to none.
We know we can dominate games. We also know that you simply can't trust us not to drop points in those games. It was a problem under Rodgers and it's a problem under Klopp.
The solution is not to carry on doing the same thing and hoping it all works out.
That's how I feel with this Liverpool team. We are a horrible horrible team defensively. So were / are Barca but they had players like Messi and Xavi and Iniesta and Eto'o and no-one could get near them.
We don't have players like that and we aren't going to get them. What's more the likelihood of all the chips falling into place and us transcending into a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts to the extent that we can blow away all before us is slim to none.
We know we can dominate games. We also know that you simply can't trust us not to drop points in those games. It was a problem under Rodgers and it's a problem under Klopp.
The solution is not to carry on doing the same thing and hoping it all works out.
Defensive set-up the problem now?
2 full seasons and still he couldnt solve shit. He bought Matip who is a soft git. Karius another average goalie. Klavan another average defender. And that's about it. Robertson signed this season so jury is still out.
Flopp is just an overrated manager. Attacking and entertaining team would not get us anywhere. We need a balance team. Flop cannot solve this in 2 seasons so he wont solve this forever.
If we finish 4th and below this season and with no major trophies, Flopp can fuck off.
As if I'd actually read that shite.
If he doesn't fuck off, would you please fuck off instead?
The thing that alienates me from these kinds of discussion is that, either knowingly or, more likely, unconsciously, they ignore the reality of how a club, and this club, is actually managed in reality.
When it comes to the issue of a problem in the side, and why it has remained a problem, the singularity of focus on Klopp is just silly. If you really know how a club works these days you know that a manager isn't the sole figure responsible for spotting and reacting to problems, and yet (encouraged no doubt by professional sports hacks who know damned well what the realities actually are but ignore them because to acknowledge them would force them to be more sophisticated in their analysis) on and on goes this childish moan about what one man does or doesn't see, react to and resolve.
In the case of Liverpool, it's not just Jurgen Klopp supposedly failing to see what various fat-arsed couch potatoes take pride in seeing and loudly announcing. It's also Zeljko Buvac, Peter Krawietz and Pepijn Lijnders - all of them with pretty impressive track records in football who probably know considerably more about the game than the aforementioned fat-arsed couch potatoes. In addition to all of them, there's also a mini army of video analysts who are paid to study each game and highlight any issue. And yet, time and again, these fat-arsed couch potatoes rant about one individual failing to spot basic defensive problems and/or solving them.
It's actually a pretty large group that, according to this noisy toy town critique, signally fails to see what the average punter sees. A sane grown-up, you'd think, would assume that it's a bit more complex than that. For one thing, you'd think, with their records in the past for assembling and managing good defences (much, much, much better defences than this current bunch), that they'd be able to spot what the average forumite could spot, and be able to remedy the problems. So if the average forumite cared more about seeming alert, honest and informed rather than just a monumental smart arse, you'd surely expect them to be hugely bemused about why the improvements haven't happened, rather than just furious at a top class manager, and a top class coaching team, for not 'getting it' as well as they do and in general for being 'c*nts'.
Is the way the defence and midfield defend infuriating? Yup, obviously. Is it down to the management and coaching team failing to notice it, let alone work to remedy it? So highly unlikely as to be laughable. Are these people even more exasperated than us, disappointed in the players and probably looking to find better and far more intelligent players, whilst adapting in the here and now to the fact that this bunch of players are probably the stupidest they've ever coached? Very likely.
I don't mind the general moaning and groaning. It's inevitable and, to an extent, cathartic. But please don't try to claim that its all as simple and obvious as some of you do. It's just tiresome, insulting and utterly pointless.
A good time to read a book and shut out the noise.
When it comes to the issue of a problem in the side, and why it has remained a problem, the singularity of focus on Klopp is just silly. If you really know how a club works these days you know that a manager isn't the sole figure responsible for spotting and reacting to problems, and yet (encouraged no doubt by professional sports hacks who know damned well what the realities actually are but ignore them because to acknowledge them would force them to be more sophisticated in their analysis) on and on goes this childish moan about what one man does or doesn't see, react to and resolve.
In the case of Liverpool, it's not just Jurgen Klopp supposedly failing to see what various fat-arsed couch potatoes take pride in seeing and loudly announcing. It's also Zeljko Buvac, Peter Krawietz and Pepijn Lijnders - all of them with pretty impressive track records in football who probably know considerably more about the game than the aforementioned fat-arsed couch potatoes. In addition to all of them, there's also a mini army of video analysts who are paid to study each game and highlight any issue. And yet, time and again, these fat-arsed couch potatoes rant about one individual failing to spot basic defensive problems and/or solving them.
It's actually a pretty large group that, according to this noisy toy town critique, signally fails to see what the average punter sees. A sane grown-up, you'd think, would assume that it's a bit more complex than that. For one thing, you'd think, with their records in the past for assembling and managing good defences (much, much, much better defences than this current bunch), that they'd be able to spot what the average forumite could spot, and be able to remedy the problems. So if the average forumite cared more about seeming alert, honest and informed rather than just a monumental smart arse, you'd surely expect them to be hugely bemused about why the improvements haven't happened, rather than just furious at a top class manager, and a top class coaching team, for not 'getting it' as well as they do and in general for being 'c*nts'.
Is the way the defence and midfield defend infuriating? Yup, obviously. Is it down to the management and coaching team failing to notice it, let alone work to remedy it? So highly unlikely as to be laughable. Are these people even more exasperated than us, disappointed in the players and probably looking to find better and far more intelligent players, whilst adapting in the here and now to the fact that this bunch of players are probably the stupidest they've ever coached? Very likely.
I don't mind the general moaning and groaning. It's inevitable and, to an extent, cathartic. But please don't try to claim that its all as simple and obvious as some of you do. It's just tiresome, insulting and utterly pointless.
A good time to read a book and shut out the noise.
They're all part and parcel of Klopp though Macca, they're his team. He wants them alongside him and puts his trust in them, so the buck always stops with the manager. It was the same with Rafa. When Paco went, everyone blamed a downturn in form on the loss of Rafa's right hand man, the buck stopped with Rafa on letting that happen, not the club, not Paco, but the manager. Rightly so. When he was too stubborn to address our flaws and repeatedly made the same mistakes, he rightly took the criticism.
When Rodgers brought in those amateur, lower league buffoons in his last season and we were garbage, he rightly took the flack for it. Just like he took the flack for letting his original staff go.
This is all a bit selective really, talk about blame shifting. FSG are failing to cover themselves in glory in the transfer market and Klopp is failing to address the problems that have held us back for the last few years. They're the two biggest issues with the club at the moment and it's right that the main people (the owners and the manager) are the ones who are questioned about it.
That fat-arsed couch potatoes stuff is nonsense, and frankly insulting. There are plenty of knowledgeable fans and people around the game who know their stuff.
When Rodgers brought in those amateur, lower league buffoons in his last season and we were garbage, he rightly took the flack for it. Just like he took the flack for letting his original staff go.
This is all a bit selective really, talk about blame shifting. FSG are failing to cover themselves in glory in the transfer market and Klopp is failing to address the problems that have held us back for the last few years. They're the two biggest issues with the club at the moment and it's right that the main people (the owners and the manager) are the ones who are questioned about it.
That fat-arsed couch potatoes stuff is nonsense, and frankly insulting. There are plenty of knowledgeable fans and people around the game who know their stuff.
Ultimately though, the buck stops with the Manager.
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