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Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

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jexykrodic said:
Did Jez know about the virus in advance, plan for it, but not tell us. I think we should be told.
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No, but he, like everyone with a social conscience, knows that almost anyone in society may need the states help, & that they way it's been run means its not equipped to deal with it.

Now this has forced everyone to realise just that.

Regards this, he's been asking for all the measures they're now implementing, last week he asked for exactly these fiscal measures plus more as well as the shutdown. No doubt the rest he asked for will follow shortly, as they seem to be just copying his playbook.

As an aside, the government ignoring the example set by Italy & Germany, & WHO recommendations, for so long, will eventually cost hundreds or thousands of lives.
 
I think it's a wizard of Oz moment. The curtain drawn and there's nothing there. I'm also pretty sure that this economic crash is gonna make 2008 look like a bad night at the casino. It's only from these types of situations that you get real positive change. They've had everyone bobbing along, surviving paycheck to paycheck, and everyone thinking that's normal. It isn't, it doesn't have to be, the status quo is over.

This bailout proves that the money was there the full time. People died on universal credit. We need to remember that what we were told to simply accept didn't need to happen and should never happen again. The money we wasted on wars and vanity projects while the NHS was run into the ground. None of it needed to happen, and as you can see now, no one needed to be homeless, no one needed food banks, austerity was a choice. When we're over this we need to build a completely different model. How can people on minimum wage last week be told they're essential this week?
 
FoxForceFive said:
No, but he, like everyone with a social conscience, knows that almost anyone in society may need the states help, & that they way it's been run means its not equipped to deal with it.

Now this has forced everyone to realise just that.

Regards this, he's been asking for all the measures they're now implementing, last week he asked for exactly these fiscal measures plus more as well as the shutdown. No doubt the rest he asked for will follow shortly, as they seem to be just copying his playbook.

As an aside, the government ignoring the example set by Italy & Germany, & WHO recommendations, for so long, will eventually cost hundreds or thousands of lives.
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Jez is good at giving opinions but doesn't act. The man is over 70 and should be self-isolating but is he, no. He doesn't appear to have much of a 'social conscience'.
 
Literally in the middle of a pandemic, the surge of which could have been prevented in the past fortnight, the NHS could have been in much better place but for pointless austerity, and people still going on about Jez.

Long live the virus
 
Woland said:
I think it's a wizard of Oz moment. The curtain drawn and there's nothing there. I'm also pretty sure that this economic crash is gonna make 2008 look like a bad night at the casino. It's only from these types of situations that you get real positive change. They've had everyone bobbing along, surviving paycheck to paycheck, and everyone thinking that's normal. It isn't, it doesn't have to be, the status quo is over.

This bailout proves that the money was there the full time. People died on universal credit. We need to remember that what we were told to simply accept didn't need to happen and should never happen again. The money we wasted on wars and vanity projects while the NHS was run into the ground. None of it needed to happen, and as you can see now, no one needed to be homeless, no one needed food banks, austerity was a choice. When we're over this we need to build a completely different model. How can people on minimum wage last week be told they're essential this week?
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I agree with all of this, except for the part that anything will change.
 
FoxForceFive said:
....As an aside, the government ignoring the example set by Italy & Germany, & WHO recommendations, for so long, will eventually cost hundreds or thousands of lives.
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Example set by Italy (778 cases per million) ? Where despite the whole country being in lockdown for 2 weeks the virus is rampant ? Or Germany (247 cases per million) where they have globally the 4th highest number of infections (number of fatalities is irrelevant in this regard)?

I don't think it's possible to state at this stage what the correct procedure should be. Despite the UK's large population the infected figures are far below those of any other country of similar size and population (currently a mere 59 cases per million, 2nd lowest of any major country - only China 56 per/million is lower - though naturally that will rise substantially with the idiots staying in pubs).
It surely will not stay that way but using political bias to slate the Govt. rather than using real time statistics, doesn't demonstrate anything other than bias. And I hate Johnson.
 
Pay supermarket workers the same as bankers!
NHS cleaners are as important as surgeons!
Essential workers should be paid 50K a year!
Nobody should have to pay rent again ever!
Teachers should earn as much as the Prime Minister!

Actually, I reckon the entire UK will be agreeing with last one in about 5 days time.

Also, this pandemic changes nothing. When it comes to a crisis, only an idiot would think Corbyn in charge would be a good thing, he's fucking incompetent and most people hate him.

At least Johnson has some achievements he can put on the table - like getting stuck on a zip wire holding two tiny Union Jacks to launch the Olympics when he was Mayor.

Beat that Jezza, you horrible old anti-semitic communist!

In all seriousness I have been quite impressed with the new Chancellor, he speaks well and looks like he know what he's doing. I was a bit miffed when the Sajid left, but he seems OK, although I haven't really actually listened to anything he's said properly.

Including his name.
 
Frogfish said:
Example set by Italy (778 cases per million) ? Where despite the whole country being in lockdown for 2 weeks the virus is rampant ? Or Germany (247 cases per million) where they have globally the 4th highest number of infections (number of fatalities is irrelevant in this regard)?

I don't think it's possible to state at this stage what the correct procedure should be. Despite the UK's large population the infected figures are far below those of any other country of similar size and population (currently a mere 59 cases per million, 2nd lowest of any major country - only China 56 per/million is lower - though naturally that will rise substantially with the idiots staying in pubs).
It surely will not stay that way but using political bias to slate the Govt. rather than using real time statistics, doesn't demonstrate anything other than bias. And I hate Johnson.
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Heh. I should have been clearer. The bad example set by Italy, & the good example set by Germany.

They literally had data to use, limited data, but even that showed how a quick sever reaction slowed it down massively & reduced the spread. They chose to try to clever, & failed miserably & cost lives.
 
Farkmaster said:
I agree with all of this, except for the part that anything will change.
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I think he's right. This will change things.

We get some behavioural change every time there's a huge recession, but not much sticks because people start spending again when the economy recovers, knowing it's cyclical. However people carried on shopping at Aldi and Lidl after the last one, because they realised it was fine, and cheaper; same with the uptick in own label and cheaper brands.

This will normalise home delivery, e-commerce and being unsociable.
 
FoxForceFive said:
Heh. I should have been clearer. The bad example set by Italy, & the good example set by Germany.

They literally had data to use, limited data, but even that showed how a quick sever reaction slowed it down massively & reduced the spread. They chose to try to clever, & failed miserably & cost lives.
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I'm not sure it's true, but it is funny, because some people have said Italy have struggled vs Germany due to cultural norms; Italy love being sociable, hugging and kissing and eating in large groups and all that.

And Germans like piss-dungeons (c) Woland
 
Frogfish said:
Example set by Italy (778 cases per million) ? Where despite the whole country being in lockdown for 2 weeks the virus is rampant ? Or Germany (247 cases per million) where they have globally the 4th highest number of infections (number of fatalities is irrelevant in this regard)?

I don't think it's possible to state at this stage what the correct procedure should be. Despite the UK's large population the infected figures are far below those of any other country of similar size and population (currently a mere 59 cases per million, 2nd lowest of any major country - only China 56 per/million is lower, though naturally that will rise substantially with the idiots staying in pubs).
It surely will not stay that way but using political bias to slate the Govt. rather than using real time statistics, doesn't demonstrate anything other than bias. And I hate Johnson.
Click to expand...
FoxForceFive said:
Heh. I should have been clearer. The bad example set by Italy, & the good example set by Germany.

They literally had data to use, limited data, but even that showed how a quick sever reaction slowed it down massively & reduced the spread. They chose to try to clever, & failed miserably & cost lives.
Click to expand...

I do think there is something to the fact that older generations of English people aren't physically affectionate, and the elderly are generally segregated to a larger extent. Everything I love about Spain, bar the smoking, sets them up really poorly for social distancing. Two kisses and thousands of people, from 4 generations, packed into plazas...
 
manwithnoname said:
This will normalise home delivery, e-commerce and being unsociable.
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Hurray, I'm from the future!

I'm sure it will change things in some ways, I just meant I don't think that these things end up being opportunities to address inequality. The last crisis wasn't.
 
Farkmaster said:
I do think there is something to the fact that older generations of English people aren't physically affectionate, and the elderly are generally segregated to a larger extent. Everything I love about Spain, bar the smoking, sets them up really poorly for social distancing. Two kisses and thousands of people, from 4 generations, packed into plazas...
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I love a sweeping generalisation as much as anyone, but I think that's fucking horse shit.

The elderly are 'generally segregated'? What?

The U.K. is very family-oriented and affectionate. The second question directed at the PM yesterday was about Mother's Day
 
manwithnoname said:
I love a sweeping generalisation as much as anyone, but I think that's fucking horse shit.

The elderly are 'generally segregated'? What?

The U.K. is very family-oriented and affectionate. The second question directed at the PM yesterday was about Mother's Day
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Whilst I agree that we aren't 'generally segregated', if you compare us to Spain or Italy, then generations have a definitive distance (physically & mentally) between them here in that comparison.
 
manwithnoname said:
I love a sweeping generalisation as much as anyone, but I think that's fucking horse shit.

The elderly are 'generally segregated'? What?

The U.K. is very family-oriented and affectionate. The second question directed at the PM yesterday was about Mother's Day
Click to expand...

manwithnoname said:
I love a sweeping generalisation as much as anyone, but I think that's fucking horse shit.

The elderly are 'generally segregated'? What?
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You motherfucker, you made me look up something I instinctively know to be true.

So about 2.5 percent of people in the UK live in a multigenerational household. In Spain it's around 20percent.

React a couple days too late in one case, and it's ok, if you didn't just visit nanna. But abuela? Que desastre.
 
FoxForceFive said:
Heh. I should have been clearer. The bad example set by Italy, & the good example set by Germany.

They literally had data to use, limited data, but even that showed how a quick sever reaction slowed it down massively & reduced the spread. They chose to try to clever, & failed miserably & cost lives.
Click to expand...
Yes but that last sentence still can't be substantiated .. yet. Not until it's all over (well that's unlikely to happen as they reckon this could well become another Winter flu strain).

I can't fault anyone for 'following the science' as against panic measures. Though which is which remains to be seen ! And as for quick reaction and quarantining .... the only way the idiots in the UK will adhere to that is with military presence on the streets.

If the C-19 does become an annual occurrence you can sure they'll be no future mass quarantining, that would destroy any country.
 
I thought they didn't even have care homes in Italy. Dunno the stats for the UK but the US has 20% of its entire population in them. We're defo much more like the yanks than the Italians.
 
Woland said:
I thought they didn't even have care homes in Italy. Dunno the stats for the UK but the US has 20% of its entire population in them. We're defo much more like the yanks than the Italians.
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Yeah. My wife is correct when she says the Italians (and Spanish - our daughter is partnered to one and I've never seen anything like their family gatherings) are far more like Chinese in that regard than the Brits, who are rather more remote/distant (nothing to do with affection).
 
Frogfish said:
Example set by Italy (778 cases per million) ? Where despite the whole country being in lockdown for 2 weeks the virus is rampant ? Or Germany (247 cases per million) where they have globally the 4th highest number of infections (number of fatalities is irrelevant in this regard)?

I don't think it's possible to state at this stage what the correct procedure should be. Despite the UK's large population the infected figures are far below those of any other country of similar size and population (currently a mere 59 cases per million, 2nd lowest of any major country - only China 56 per/million is lower - though naturally that will rise substantially with the idiots staying in pubs).
It surely will not stay that way but using political bias to slate the Govt. rather than using real time statistics, doesn't demonstrate anything other than bias. And I hate Johnson.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid the low infection rate in the UK is merely a reflection of the low levels of testing.

As an example, in Singapore, patients with symptoms are immediately tested, and incoming traffic is heavily monitored, as they are the main source of infections. On 19 March 2020, there were 32 new confirmed cases. Of the 32 new cases, 24 cases were imported (foreigners and citizens who had recently entered Singapore), and eight local transmissions.

Of the 24 new cases, FOURTEEN (14) had arrived from the UK, while arrivals from the REST OF THE WORLD (including Europe, USA, and Asia) accounted for only TEN. This is a very very small sample size, but it suggests that the United Kingdom might have a blind spot.
 
Farkmaster said:
You motherfucker, you made me look up something I instinctively know to be true.

So about 2.5 percent of people in the UK live in a multigenerational household. In Spain it's around 20percent.

React a couple days too late in one case, and it's ok, if you didn't just visit nanna. But abuela? Que desastre.
Click to expand...

That's just because the Spanish are poorer and have to live with their parents and precious abuelo/a/s

Desafortunatamende
 
Hyena said:
I'm afraid the low infection rate in the UK is merely a reflection of the low levels of testing.

As an example, in Singapore, patients with symptoms are immediately tested, and incoming traffic is heavily monitored, as they are the main source of infections. On 19 March 2020, there were 32 new confirmed cases. Of the 32 new cases, 24 cases were imported (foreigners and citizens who had recently entered Singapore), and eight local transmissions.

Of the 24 new cases, FOURTEEN (14) had arrived from the UK, while arrivals from the REST OF THE WORLD (including Europe, USA, and Asia) accounted for only TEN. This is a very very small sample size, but it suggests that the United Kingdom might have a blind spot.
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If that's the whole picture then yes it must be worrying.

However do note that :
a) there are many many UK business visitors to Sing. as it's an expat haven
b) such small numbers are in general very difficult to use as exemplars and that could easily be a statistical anomaly.
c) Sing. had a very early ban on Chinese visitors. I'd also mention that Sing. is tiny, almost exactly the same size as Anglesey and far easier to monitor & test (esp. with their restrictive government controlling everything a person does).

As for using Singapore as an example though: note that Malaysia has had far fewer restrictions and yet only 37 infections per million compared to Singapore's 74 p.m. I still believe that the statistics seem to be showing that heat is having a very positive effect on reducing the spread of the virus.

There are so many factors to consider in every country/region it's very difficult to know what is relevant.
 
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