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Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

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If a material number of people don't get vaccinated, it allows the virus to continue to circulate and increase the chances of more mutations and other variants will appear and they could well be a lot of more serious for younger people.

Vaccines will only truly work if herd immunity is achieved and the virus can't continue to be transmitted on such a large scale.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
If a material number of people don't get vaccinated, it allows the virus to continue to circulate and increase the chances of more mutations and other variants will appear and they could well be a lot of more serious for younger people.

Vaccines will only truly work if herd immunity is achieved and the virus can't continue to be transmitted on such a large scale.
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You've just triggered Dantes...
 
Aidan O' Neill said:
So at low exposure people in their 20s are less at risk from COVID basically?
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Yes, less at risk from covid than from vaccine. But keep in mind that it is being called low/medium/high exposure to mislead you into thinking medium exposure is the normal state of play. This is probably not true, it's more likely the baseline exposure risk is the lowest rate of incidences, and all the higher ones are the result of specific aggravating factors in those regions or time periods. Also keep in mind that they have assumed this "a fixed vaccine efficacy of 80% for all age groups for ICU reduction was used" which makes the entire thing laughable.
 
startrek-picard-facepalm-700x341.jpg
 
Rosco said:
But if the vaccine was as effective as advertised the vaccinated ones shouldn't be getting sick at all and if at all it would be minor.
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No. The vaccines were "advertised" as very effective against the variants that they were studied against and found incredibly high efficacy. Subsequent studies, and the demonstrable facts on the ground during this surge show that the mRNA vaccines are slightly less effective against this variant, but still wildly effective when compared to most vaccines in use for all sorts of diseases. It's fucking laughable that you think the efficacy against any symptomatic infection should be 100%. No vaccine does that.

The vaccine IS making many deaths into hospitalizations, hospitalizations into just symptomatic infection, and symptomatic infection into asymptomatic or nonexistent. That's why the numbers are what they are.
 
Farkmaster said:
No. The vaccines were "advertised" as very effective against the variants that they were studied against and found incredibly high efficacy. Subsequent studies, and the demonstrable facts on the ground during this surge show that the mRNA vaccines are slightly less effective against this variant, but still wildly effective when compared to most vaccines in use for all sorts of diseases. It's fucking laughable that you think the efficacy against any symptomatic infection should be 100%. No vaccine does that.

The vaccine IS making many deaths into hospitalizations, hospitalizations into just symptomatic infection, and symptomatic infection into asymptomatic or nonexistent. That's why the numbers are what they are.
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Not in Ireland.. apparently.
 
Halmeister said:
All this over something that has an average age of death of like 81, while 99.8% of people recover from it too... if they even notice they've had it. Then you could probably start examining that figure further with the dubious died from/with covid stats, and the died within 28 days figures.

I know it's not a flu, yada yada yada, but out of interest I looked up flu deaths from a few years ago, and there was one winter around 2017 or 2018, where 1800 people were dying a day in the UK. We weren't locking down and restricting the entire population then, or forcing them to inject themselves with god knows what.

I was also sent a picture, I don't know how true it is, and I don't know how to upload it, but in Israel, there's a much, much higher rate of hospitalisations and deaths amongst vaccinated people.

Chances are, this is going to be around forever now, mutating and shifting each year, like flu does. Do we keep locking down millions of people for the sake of a handful of cases, like in Australia? Or do we learn to live with it and protect the vulnerable without impacting on privacy and rights, and without bringing in Orwellian, dystopian measures just to maybe protect (most likely) a few old, fatties from something else that can kill them now?
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I’m all for protecting old fatties.
 
Have we had the “Long COVID” discussion yet?

Is it a thing?
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Nah, between smallpox, polio, yellow fever and a few more, the majority of countries had one at some point or another. It's pretty reasonable to restrict movements based on whether you are infected or have a higher likelihood to be infectious. If we get to the stage where it's not as big a risk, rules should and would be adjusted. It's not a big human rights violation that some are trying to make out, it's just prudent.
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Smallpox and yellow fever had far higher death rates per case than COVID. I'm for it as a short term measure mostly because a lot of countries have very poor vaccine coverage so far, but it should be a long term measure.
 
StevieM said:
Have we had the “Long COVID” discussion yet?

Is it a thing?
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I've heard conflicting theories, as with most things during this pandemic. The last I saw was that some scientists believe that it is exacerbated by stress. Psychosomatic is the word, I think. We live in such an age though where you don't know what to believe.

I see Dr. Kerry Chant was telling people not to interact or talk with each other in Australia? At what point are the measures brought in more damaging than the virus itself? Are people generally following the advice?
 
I don't know why I wrote imagine in that last post. They actually did eradicate smallpox.
 
It's different, though, we're not going to eradicate covid through a vaccine, as it will keep mutating, just as we can't eradicate flu.
 
Halmeister said:
It's different, though, we're not going to eradicate covid through a vaccine, as it will keep mutating, just as we can't eradicate flu.
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There are other disease we could possibly eradicate but won't because of antivaxxers. They had a spell with no measles infections in the UK before it came back, because of people not vaccinating.
 
Athens said:
There are other disease we could possibly eradicate but won't because of antivaxxers. They had a spell with no measles infections in the UK before it came back, because of people not vaccinating.
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Did they lock down the entire globe to eradicate small pox, measles etc? Bring in vaccine passports? Etc. Genuine question. They may have?

I think the closest thing to what we have here, though, is flu and colds etc... we haven't been able to eradicate those.

Is it possible, also, that by bringing in such stringent measures, we're encouraging stronger strains of the virus to emerge? Just a thought I had.
 
Athens said:
There are other disease we could possibly eradicate but won't because of antivaxxers. They had a spell with no measles infections in the UK before it came back, because of people not vaccinating.
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I would have absolutely no problem force vaccinating the entire population. But to reach that point you need to be sure of your science. When an anti-vaxxer claims the vaccine causes autism, the correct answer to that is "no, it absolutely doesn't", very simple. Once you give that answer, then the army should go around and jab them all. But we don't have that. Instead the pathetic cringeworthy answers given by incompetent scientists are along the lines of "there is no ethidence it does, no ehtidence", "you're a conspiracy theorist wah wah wah foam at mouth" "trust us, we're experts", "wah wah wah you're a racist #BLM wah wah wah". None of these are the correct answer. So the army should instead go round an execute all these fake scientists.
 
Halmeister said:
Did they lock down the entire globe to eradicate small pox, measles etc? Bring in vaccine passports? Etc. Genuine question. They may have?

I think the closest thing to what we have here, though, is flu and colds etc... we haven't been able to eradicate those.

Is it possible, also, that by bringing in such stringent measures, we're encouraging stronger strains of the virus to emerge? Just a thought I had.[/QUOTE
They didn't lock down the entire globe for smallpox, it was with us forever (I've no idea how long it was with us*). It killed off most of the native Americans, some people reckon the population of America was 100 million before the Europeans arrived, the disease then spread across the continent quicker than the Europeans killing 90% of the population. The white man thought the place was empty & theirs' to take when in actual fact it was their disease that killed most of the natives. It would have been good for them if we did lock down the entire globe.

I'm sure people probably had to be vaccinated against it first before they went into the areas that had smallpox, but these were probably aid workers and whatnot. To be honest I don't know.

*I had a quick look and it seems the earliest mention of it is from 1500 BCE.
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I knew it was a devastating disease, however, I didn't know it was so fatal. 90% of Europeans!?

In any case, Covid is nowhere near as dangerous, so shouldn't be put in the same bracket, and we shouldn't be bringing in these Orwellian measures. I fear they're doing more damage than the virus would.
 
Halmeister said:
I knew it was a devastating disease, however, I didn't know it was so fatal. 90% of Europeans!?

In any case, Covid is nowhere near as dangerous, so shouldn't be put in the same bracket, and we shouldn't be bringing in these Orwellian measures. I fear they're doing more damage than the virus would.
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Sorry, 90% of the native Americans.

I'm still half asleep this morning. I can't sleep for shit these days.
 
What I meant to say was that between first contact and the Europeans travelling west across the American continent, smallpox (and other old world diseases) had already wiped out an estimated 90% of Americans.

Imagine how different American history would have been if it wasn't for old world diseases? There wouldn't be a USA as we know it, if at all.
 
Oh, yeah. I knew that about the Native Americans. Something to do with blankets... burying the hatchet... yadda yadda.. Thanksgiving and casinos!
 
Halmeister said:
I've heard conflicting theories, as with most things during this pandemic. The last I saw was that some scientists believe that it is exacerbated by stress. Psychosomatic is the word, I think. We live in such an age though where you don't know what to believe.

I see Dr. Kerry Chant was telling people not to interact or talk with each other in Australia? At what point are the measures brought in more damaging than the virus itself? Are people generally following the advice?
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I wouldn’t pay much attention to anything anyone from NSW says about managing COVID at this point in time - given NSW is entirely responsible for this mess.

The issue in NSW is they aren’t locking down hard enough - daily figures averaging about 100 new cases, half of which or more are seemingly active in the community whilst positive.

It is a fair question - the lockdowns are tough - but, since the big one last year, have been short and sharp.

Australia is a bit odd - in that it’s gone for total eradication - as the same time as the Government has absolutely ballsed up the vaccine roll out - another right of centre “populist” government that’s left floundering when it comes down to it.

It’s also difficult because some companies (including the one I work for) has been posting increased profits and doing well, while others are going to the wall.

I’ve had to be friend that has lost several friends from taking their own life - while my boss has been able to work from home and spend time he would not have been able to with his two young kids (including one born a few months back).

I think there’s definitely a bit of a change or a reset going on about how the world “works” - we’re in that phase we’re its still volatile and changeable, we’re many are suffering, but in the long term it might be better.

There hasn’t been the same push to return to a physical work office as there seemingly has in the UK and there most certainly hasn’t been the same desire to open borders and go travelling (why would you?).

If Australia gets the vaccine rollout sorted - then the sacrifices will have been worth it - continue getting it wrong and we’ll remain in the cycle of lockdown and open, stop and start and all the pain will absolutely not have been worth it.
 
It's not creating the variants if it doesn't stop infection then, the person would still get sick no matter if they are vaccinated or not...
 
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