Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?
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Have the results been peer-reviewed yet?
Peer review is not what it used to be. In fact it is utterly useless. You'll have to wait for the paper to be published and review it yourself with the help of google, that's the only way you will know if the conclusion is legit.
That isn't quite what I saw reported. According to the story I read, India's refused emergency approval and said the vaccine will have to be trialled locally.
So the astrazeneca vaccine is useless..
By the time we get round to the 2nd doses.. the mutant strain will have ran amok amongst the country.. If the economy is reponed in March as being mooted..
10% effectiveness against the Mutant Strain Virus...
By the time we get round to the 2nd doses.. the mutant strain will have ran amok amongst the country.. If the economy is reponed in March as being mooted..
10% effectiveness against the Mutant Strain Virus...
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I suspect the government will push through a 2nd booster jab with very little testing..
This is not going to end well..
This is not going to end well..
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10% against mild/moderate covid. And for a variant that is less than 1% of all covid in the UK. If the limited study turns out to be correct.
Most likely fully effective for severe and death. Which is its main purpose. Hardly useless.
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There is no evidence to suggest that yet...
If it 10% against mild/moderate covid you can bet your bottom dollar it wont be anywhere as near effective for severe and preventing deaths as it is against the current strain..
Might as well take a flu Jab.. and hope for the best..
remember Jabs are upto 12 weeks apart.. which is enough time for the mutant strain to run amok in this country..
We will just have to wait and see..
Not convinced.... Nothing Concrete.. Just comments that Scientists remain hopeful.. etc etc
on the flipside it was only a small study...
However the fact quite a few countries have not approved it due to lack of testing (not enough testing) against the age groups its designed to protect is a cause for concern imho..
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Not sure it is really right to declare the AZ vaccine as useless. it is considered to be effective against the variants that are dominant in the UK, but possibly not so effective against some variants that are in the minority in this country.
Personally I would still be very happy to receive it.
If you don't want to take it, you are free to decline. And presumably, if it is that useless, then you would no longer believe that we should be sending our vaccine supplies all over the World? We can just go ahead and use our 'useless' vaccine ourselves?
Personally I would still be very happy to receive it.
If you don't want to take it, you are free to decline. And presumably, if it is that useless, then you would no longer believe that we should be sending our vaccine supplies all over the World? We can just go ahead and use our 'useless' vaccine ourselves?
My eldest daughter has a 5 week old baby and both her and her partner have tested positive this week. They have been really careful and have barely been anywhere, apart from for the necessities, but have contracted Covid anyway. Her Mum is in her bubble, and it's her Mum's partner who contracted it first (but her Mum has tested negative).
We're obviously really worried about the baby now, but all three family members have had zero symptoms, other than tiredness and they've all had a stiff neck/upper back. No cough, loss of taste/smell, fever, cold. Nothing.
We're obviously really worried about the baby now, but all three family members have had zero symptoms, other than tiredness and they've all had a stiff neck/upper back. No cough, loss of taste/smell, fever, cold. Nothing.
India requires vaccines/drugs to be tested locally before being approved. Pfizer, I believe did not do any testing in India. They then wanted India to commit to purchasing before starting the trial. I guess the negotiations did not pan out. The trials would have taken an additional 3-5 months (?). I also don't think India has the infrastructure or the government did not want to invest in the cold chain infrastructure needed for Pfizer. Pfizer wanted to sell around 50 million in India I believe which is for 25 million in doses which is not a huge amount for a country with over 1.3 billion. The price point is also way higher for the Indian public. I think both teams decided the hassle wasn't worth it.
The Oxford vaccine has been emergency approved. Sputnik is being trialed in India. There are five others also which are being trialed. They have the manufacturing capacity for more regular type vaccines which dont require extreme cold storage. So I think the government is going to go all-in for the non-Mrna ones.
Thanks for the info.
Do you have have a link for this?
Had the usual anti vac lot saying it's not safe, look we told ya cos India won't allow it.
I don't have one article which details all that. I typed from memory from a number of articles that I read over the last few months. The negotiations not panning out is my conjecture from the information I had. Here are some:
This states India asking for a local trial.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...ergency-use-bid-of-its-covid-vaccine-in-india
The Oxford was trialed in India by the Serum Institute. I don't know if it was a complete Phase 3. There were some articles in December which stated that if UK approves then India is ok with approving their data.
This is the information on Sputnik.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...safety-in-the-Phase-2-Clinical-Trial-in-India
This is one article that details Pfizer wanting a purchase commitment.
https://www.financialexpress.com/li...mitment-pharma-giant-on-india-supply/2178941/
I remember reading 50 million doses commitment somewhere. Can't find that article. I remember reading that article a month ago and thinking this is might be too much effort and investment for vaccinating 1.5 cities (25 million people) in India.
Article about cost:
https://science.thewire.in/health/p...e-throwing-off-indian-government-report-says/
I remember several articles that put Pfizer's or Moderna's price between 2500 and 3000 rupees per dose. That is way too much for Indian conditions. Oxford is selling at 200 rupees.
Pfizer not being sold in India has nothing to do with anti-vaccination sentiments or it being unsafe. India is going big on vaccination. There are 7 vaccines under development locally. They are betting on Oxford-style vaccine which does not require special cold chain logistics.
Richey missed the point.. as ever.
It fine against the current strain.. However you and I know how quickly that strain will be main virus within let's say 12 weeks..
The problem with that in 12 weeks it could very well be just that.. useless.. the truth is nobody knows... Either way the race is on to release a top up vaccine.. I'm just hoping adequate testing is done..
I also said steps needed to be made to prioritize the mutants strains worldwide as the current vaccine will be merely just a sticking plaster.. It could very well be just that..
It's going to get messy...
He's not missed the point.
He's clearly seen the point and addressed it.
This whole thing is shudda wudda cudda
It could well be utterly useless against SA strain, or it could at least prevent hospitalisation, or it could reduce hospitalisation by 80% ... The truth is nobody knows!
It could be that a first injection of whatever followed by a sputnik injection is enough to crack this south African strain on the head.
I think Boris and co are utterly pathetic yes.
But, by some magic stroke of luck, or a gamble, they've got ahead of the curve while others are pissing about.
Did you want them to not give out the first jab cos an as yet undiscovered variant ( or a virus that was announced a few days before the first jab) was lurking about at the tip of Africa.
And yes it could well be a sticky plaster and we could all be in lockdown for the next decade.
He's clearly seen the point and addressed it.
This whole thing is shudda wudda cudda
It could well be utterly useless against SA strain, or it could at least prevent hospitalisation, or it could reduce hospitalisation by 80% ... The truth is nobody knows!
It could be that a first injection of whatever followed by a sputnik injection is enough to crack this south African strain on the head.
I think Boris and co are utterly pathetic yes.
But, by some magic stroke of luck, or a gamble, they've got ahead of the curve while others are pissing about.
Did you want them to not give out the first jab cos an as yet undiscovered variant ( or a virus that was announced a few days before the first jab) was lurking about at the tip of Africa.
And yes it could well be a sticky plaster and we could all be in lockdown for the next decade.
That first line was a bit rude. Wrong. A little ironic. But above all, a bit rude.
Anyway, that aside, the U.K. is still reporting a high number of new cases of coronavirus each day. It’s going down, but it’s still high. It is not generally the South African variant that people are catching in the U.K. each day, and people are dying from in the U.K. each day. There were 14000 new cases of coronavirus reported today. As far as anyone knows, there are something like 150 cases of the South African variant here.
Thankfully we have a vaccine that works against the virus that people are commonly catching in the U.K. each day. 12 and a half million people have had that vaccine so far. So that is 12 and a half million people who won’t catch that virus.
I wouldn’t consider that useless.
Now, this vaccine MAY not be as effective against the variant of the virus that came from South Africa. I am sure that you and everyone else hopes that it will be, but it may not be. However, that variant is not here in large numbers. If it does spread here in large numbers, and if the vaccine is not as effective against it then sure, we have a problem, but ultimately we would have still dealt with the variants that are HERE NOW. It is still very very worth doing.
A few other points, for the record. The 12 week thing is the recommended time frame for this vaccine. The person who created it even said yesterday that it could be longer. She also said that most of the protection comes from the first dose. Even if those people who have had their first shot then suddenly catch the South African variant, the chances are that they would have enough resistance to stop it being as bad as it would be.
Secondly, the Deputy Chief Medical officer said today that he didn’t believe that the South African variant would become the dominant strain here within the next few months, and that it wasn’t super-contagious. So if a change in the vaccine is needed, then there should be time to do that.
Where you are right is where you say that no one really knows yet. So I’d say again that the best thing to do is probably to take the vaccine when offered and if we need another one in a few months, take that as well.
How do you know it will be the dominant strain? Based on what ?
I would imagine in India that the issues surrounding maintaining temperature control (for mass inoculation) are insurmountable. Added to which the AZ facility in country is making up to 1 billion doses.
Based on conjecture Jonno has declared in his great wisdom to be the Truth, in contradiction to all known scientific theorising (since there are few 'facts' as yet).
Nobody knows.. That's the point... But I wouldn't necessarily rest on my laurels.. We know how quickly this virus can Spread and mutate..
Our borders are still open too.. fun times ahead..
You said you knew it would be the dominant variant. Then you said it could be. Then you said nobody knows. Make your mind up fella.
Well this is going to fuck up the minds of a few conspiracy theorists.
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International experts investigating the origins of Covid-19 have all but dismissed a theory that the virus came from a laboratory in China.
Peter Ben Embarek, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) mission, said it was "extremely unlikely" that the virus leaked from a lab in the city of Wuhan.
He said more work was needed to identify the source of the virus.
The investigation could now focus on South East Asia, one expert said.
The WHO team are currently at the end of their investigation mission.
Wuhan, in China's central Hubei province, is the first place in the world that the virus was detected in 2019. Since then, more than 106 million cases and 2.3 million deaths have been reported worldwide. Dr Embarek told a press conference the investigation had uncovered new information but had not dramatically changed the picture of the outbreak. Experts believe the virus is likely to have originated in animals before spreading to humans, but they are not sure how.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728
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International experts investigating the origins of Covid-19 have all but dismissed a theory that the virus came from a laboratory in China.
Peter Ben Embarek, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) mission, said it was "extremely unlikely" that the virus leaked from a lab in the city of Wuhan.
He said more work was needed to identify the source of the virus.
The investigation could now focus on South East Asia, one expert said.
The WHO team are currently at the end of their investigation mission.
Wuhan, in China's central Hubei province, is the first place in the world that the virus was detected in 2019. Since then, more than 106 million cases and 2.3 million deaths have been reported worldwide. Dr Embarek told a press conference the investigation had uncovered new information but had not dramatically changed the picture of the outbreak. Experts believe the virus is likely to have originated in animals before spreading to humans, but they are not sure how.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728
Nah, nothing about anti-vax in India. The main issue with Pfizer was the cold chain infrastructure, which was too expensive and not practical in India.
India is using 2 vaccines primarily at the moment - the Oxford one, and the locally developed Covaxin. Covaxin, in fact, didn't even complete Phase 3 trials before being approved for emergency use, which was a big controversy.
Yes, Serum Institute is biggest vaccine manufacturer in the world, and they tied up with AZ long ago committing to delivering close to a billion doses.