Pretty much this...
Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?
- Thread starter manwithnoname
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Rolling out the vaccine is priority but gov now have the option to manage the flow to others if required once they have critical set. We have 350m doses due over the next year fuck sake, thats x5 per person in UK. They can be clever about helping others.
Actually this week is the first time I have actually felt any understanding or connection with this gov for the first time in about 12 yrs.
Population has already suffered under this gov, vaccine ain’t going to rollback this gov’s handling of it over the last year, know mates who started businesses without any help and are part of the 3m forgotten and 24yr old covid case who’s ventilator was switched off last week. Suffering ain’t gonna start and end because we have 350m vaccines...
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To be fair, the UK is one of the leading contributors to the Covax scheme, which is designed to give vaccines to the poorest countries in the World. It has so far given around £550 million to that, which is more than the EU and most other countries (the US has given the most).
The UK also remember gave a hell of a lot of funding for the vaccine that ultimately became the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is part of the reason why it costs less than the others.
I am certainly not saying that in a ‘look at us, we are great’ kinda way. The UK is comparatively wealthy, so it should help those who are not. But with all this in mind I don’t think it is too unreasonable for the UK to also wish to vaccinate UK citizens at whatever rate it wants to.
The UK also remember gave a hell of a lot of funding for the vaccine that ultimately became the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is part of the reason why it costs less than the others.
I am certainly not saying that in a ‘look at us, we are great’ kinda way. The UK is comparatively wealthy, so it should help those who are not. But with all this in mind I don’t think it is too unreasonable for the UK to also wish to vaccinate UK citizens at whatever rate it wants to.
I’d feed my kids before giving to food banks.
You do know that even at these 'inflated' prices (if true) the AZ vaccine is only around 1/5 of the cost of Pfizer's and the rest?
Haha I beg to differ. As if China would let WHO manage distribution of their vaccines.
That's about as naive a statement as you could ever find on 6CM.
In addition it should be noted that the UK is one of the countries that has suffered most, using whatever metric you like from financial to mental health, whilst many countries around the world haven't even had lockdowns and continue not to because the virus is less virulent due to favourable factors such as temperature and young populations (many countries in Asia and Africa) and so life as continued much as usual.
Northern and Southern countries that have relatively cold winters (favouring the virus which supposedly thrives best at 0-10C) have been most affected.
There is different reasons for the cost I guess, on paper the efficacy number seems better with Pfizer at least. Even though the study groups used by neither is I guess conclusive enough.
The extra in cost also is attributed to storage and distribution methods between both.
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Number of facts not taken into consideration but not exclusive to.
Significantly Less Testing
Less data available in some countries to know how much is being done
Over how countries record deaths - Excess Deaths - SA for example.
Mutant Strains - More transmissible, some vaccines will become less effective over time as the virus evolves
Worse health services in poorer countries some already at breaking point
Brazil is not exactly a cool climate either, (There government are cunts- we Know) look at the state of them and other South American countries .. you can bet your bottom doller some African countries are in a similar state.. Don't we also have a Brazilian strain as well as a South African strain ??
Sorry but unless vaccination is tackled on a global scale equally.. we will have years upon years of this shit..
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Yep. The government clearly think we'll all forget about their incompetence with everything else as long as they win the vaccine race.
I'd be happy to give up vaccine supply to other badly hit countries once our priority groups are vaccinated, as long as it's to vaccinate their priority groups. It should be all about keeping as many people alive as possible, regardless of nationality.
Shove your economic arguments up your hoop.
I'd be happy to give up vaccine supply to other badly hit countries once our priority groups are vaccinated, as long as it's to vaccinate their priority groups. It should be all about keeping as many people alive as possible, regardless of nationality.
Shove your economic arguments up your hoop.
You keep giving that same line, but I'm not quite sure what it really means?
It doesn't sound like the greatest idea to have all the manufacturing plants in the World constantly having to keep shipping lots of vaccines everywhere else while the infection rates are still high. I thought people wanted to close borders and minimise travel?
As I said before, it IS being tackled on a global scale. Whatever way you look at it, it is gonna end up with richer countries providing aid for poorer countries.
You can either have it where the richer countries have supply lines in their own areas and vaccinate their own population while funding the UN scheme or use other means to get vaccines to poor countries, which is what is being done (the UK, US, EU are contributing to COVAX).
Or I suppose you could say the richer countries still pay the most but can't actually vaccinate their own populations at the same time and everyone moves at exactly the same pace.
The latter option may satisfy your desire for fairness but it sounds a bit bloody slow, and I'm not sure therefore it would help save as many lives.
Our programme doesn't NEED to be disrupted though! We are talking about a vaccine that the EU only approved on Friday and that one of their most prominent leaders described as useless!
They haven't been sitting around desperately waiting to get the stocks in so they can start jabbing people. The vaccine company hasn't said they won't deliver any to them, just that the first batch will be lower than they initially thought.
Economies as @Rosco pointed out is about looking after the billionaires fuck the rest. However to do that you need to ensure your economy is functioning.. i.e work force in place etc etc.. so the government as you would expect are looking to look after their own with that, in the quickest manner they see fit. Not necessarily the correct manner..
Borders are only going to be closed for a specific amount of time, the economy will structure we have will dictate that.
Britain have been one of the worst regarding border measures to contain the virus.. many experts believe borders remaining open without any controlled measures in place, is one of the key factors in why we are where we are.
Vaccination programs are seen as the idea too get the economy back on track.. in theory yes, you can see the logic. But if you don't deal with the mutant strains and the programs to support developing countries and other countries with their effort to vaccine at best; the most vulnerable in tandem with your own. Its is only matter of time before your own economy comes back to a grinding halt again, because the vaccine you have be giving everyone is now fucking useless .
I work in pharmaceutical, although mainly IT.. this what many experts I work with have been saying.
Essentially tackle the most vulnerable globally head on, thus keeping death rates down will also help with the effort to keep vaccinations updated to tackle the mutant strains that are evolving..
What’s the point in vaccinating a 70 year old Ugandan in a tiny village because “they’re in a certain age range when there is no outside interaction. Sort us out, get ourselves going again to make money to pay for the extra vaccines for everyone else.
We're one of the most infected nations in the world. I'm all for assisting poorer nations, but it should be when we've got the virus under control, and not when the vulnerable are vaccinated. ICU medics are saying the new variant is killing 30 year olds, so I'm not even sure what constitutes vulnerable any more.
The Oxford vaccine is the cheapest and most likely to be rolled out globally and across the third world. The UK has already made a huge contribution to the global fight against COVID.
The Oxford vaccine is the cheapest and most likely to be rolled out globally and across the third world. The UK has already made a huge contribution to the global fight against COVID.
I get that, but isn't this where the global schemes to get vaccines to the poorest countries come in? Like the one that I have referred to a few times.
We don't necessarily need to slow down vaccination programmes in places like the UK and the US in order to help get vaccine programmes running in other places. It can be done at the same time.
One could also argue that in order to keep the money flowing to the programmes that help the poorer countries, the larger economies need to get themselves in better shape.
OK firstly for @6TimesaRed since he doesn't seem to have seen this (I posted it around 10 pages ago) and he seems to be under the impression that the UK are hoarding vaccine (we're not) and that AZ will be exporting the vaccine from the UK all over the world (it won't be, AZ is a massive MNC with research facilities and manufacturing plants all over the world) :
I didn't think Canada was making any? Aren't they relying on the EU?OK firstly for @6TimesaRed since he doesn't seem to have seen this (I posted it around 10 pages ago) and he seems to be under the impression that the UK are hoarding vaccine (we're not) and that AZ will be exporting the vaccine from the UK all over the world (it won't be, AZ is a massive MNC with research facilities and manufacturing plants all over the world) :
Totally agree with the point though.
Vaccinating the UK pop, helping reduce the chances of our hospitals being overrun and collapsing is priority number1.
To suggest otherwise is completely ridiculous, I appreciate the altruism and the we hate the govt argument but what point is being a great country if we're on our knees and people are dying whilst the cure (or at least part of it) is given elsewhere.
The Pfizer vaccine won't get to the countries anyway I suspect because of the conditions it needs to be kept in.
The AZ a little better, while the novax and j&j might be even better. The j&j one in particular because it's just one jab.
To suggest otherwise is completely ridiculous, I appreciate the altruism and the we hate the govt argument but what point is being a great country if we're on our knees and people are dying whilst the cure (or at least part of it) is given elsewhere.
The Pfizer vaccine won't get to the countries anyway I suspect because of the conditions it needs to be kept in.
The AZ a little better, while the novax and j&j might be even better. The j&j one in particular because it's just one jab.
But we've obviously had our hand forced over the vaccine. Leaving ourselves in a situation where a panic, mass vaccination programme is rolled out to combat a completely out of control pandemic is waaaaay more of a shit show than vaccinating for sheer preventative purposes. And that's before we start talking about:
a) fairly inconclusive effectiveness results
b) the cost to the economy
Getting the vaccine out there to a large portion of the vulnerable population has been handled well, but let's face it, we never should have been in this situation and them fucking this up would have been the nail in the coffin.
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I don’t think anyone said give away our vaccines from those that need it here to those to some to other parts of the world less able. If there is any room for manoeuvre then should look it at as an option as showing some humanity and good future non EU trade PR.
The selfish point is it’s not like other viruses, it will spread and mutate in cycle if not widely managed, even if from a tiny village in far away part of the world. Never even heard of a place called Wuhan this time last year anyway.
The selfish point is it’s not like other viruses, it will spread and mutate in cycle if not widely managed, even if from a tiny village in far away part of the world. Never even heard of a place called Wuhan this time last year anyway.
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Fuck that - keeping you infected UK fuckers in the UK and not out spreading this shit round the world is priority one.
I wanna know when we reach the point where the world cuts it’s losses and scorches the UK out of existence.
I say the rest of the world gets all Ripley on your ass.
Can we put Runcorn in a protective dome first? Ta.
Only if we put Dantes inside the protective dome with you.
All modern cities should be in protective domes by now, with electromagnetic trains shuttling people off to their destinations. Instead everyone listened to too much fake news about nuclear power, and now look your primitive ass being lit up by microorganisms. We must be an utter embarrassment to the physicists of the 1900's, whom would look away in shame at the state of us.