Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[Atlas]

Yah - half of Africa it seems owes them money. They will be neutral best case scenario.

As for influence over Hollywood - what source(s) are you going by on this?

Yah, no one talks about the Uyghur stuff really ... Concentration camps ... being wiped out - but not a peep from anyone. Kinda says enough about what kind of species we are.

Re Hollywood -


Re Uyghur - literally millions of people and complete wiping out of the culture not an eyelid batted elsewhere.

Trump mentioned it during his little backwards and forth with China and a deal... A short while later a deal was struck and that was the end of it

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re Hollywood -


Re Uyghur - literally millions of people and complete wiping out of the culture not an eyelid batted elsewhere.

Trump mentioned it during his little backwards and forth with China and a deal... A short while later a deal was struck and that was the end of it

If they're in Hollywood - their influence and ability to do more shit will only increase. I mean, just look at social justice gurus like LeBron, Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich when discussing the US vs China ... $$$$$$$$$$$$$ ...

Yah you had the same thing in Mynamar etc ... as I said on another thread, an active slave market in Northern Africa and shhhhh ... I guess my people don't really know what 'Never Again' really means eh? :-(

 

[Hyena]

History tells us that (1) there will always be a dominant political power in this world; (2) by and large, superpowers are assholes (3) they will get away with it

China is clearly determined to be that dominant power, both in terms of hard and soft power, by as of now, it has not invaded any country with whom it does not share a land border, not supported any coups, not assassinated any leaders, not enslaved any race, not looted any nation's resources by force (it only uses corruption and trickery), or conducted genocide.

I am not here to praise China, but to point out that it is likely to get much worse in the next fifty to hundred years. For now, people talk about the CCP being evil but deep in every country is a group of ultra-nationalist, right-wing, minds that is barely noticeable by the world when a country is weak, but becomes a problem when it is a superpower.

Look at the crazy people in the States, with their racist ideologies, their rejection of science and logic, their MAGA hats, their conspiracy theories and their belief in American Supremacy and their ridiculous constitution. There are millions and millions of these people in the Chinese heartlands, villages and suburbs, who will grow up with a China-centric view of the world, and when China finally rises, these people will be a force that even the CCP cannot contain. They will have the spending power, the voices and the numbers to make life unbearable for everyone else. And as people start hating on China now it will only drive them.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

History tells us that (1) there will always be a dominant political power in this world; (2) by and large, superpowers are assholes (3) they will get away with it

China is clearly determined to be that dominant power, both in terms of hard and soft power, by as of now, it has not invaded any country with whom it does not share a land border, not supported any coups, not assassinated any leaders, not enslaved any race, not looted any nation's resources by force (it only uses corruption and trickery), or conducted genocide.

I am not here to praise China, but to point out that it is likely to get much worse in the next fifty to hundred years. For now, people talk about the CCP being evil but deep in every country is a group of ultra-nationalist, right-wing, minds that is barely noticeable by the world when a country is weak, but becomes a problem when it is a superpower.

Look at the crazy people in the States, with their racist ideologies, their rejection of science and logic, their MAGA hats, their conspiracy theories and their belief in American Supremacy and their ridiculous constitution. There are millions and millions of these people in the Chinese heartlands, villages and suburbs, who will grow up with a China-centric view of the world, and when China finally rises, these people will be a force that even the CCP cannot contain. They will have the spending power, the voices and the numbers to make life unbearable for everyone else. And as people start hating on China now it will only drive them.

@Atlas - wanna tell him? (just calm down before you do yeah?)

 

[Atlas]

History tells us that (1) there will always be a dominant political power in this world; (2) by and large, superpowers are assholes (3) they will get away with it

China is clearly determined to be that dominant power, both in terms of hard and soft power, by as of now, it has not invaded any country with whom it does not share a land border, not supported any coups, not assassinated any leaders, not enslaved any race, not looted any nation's resources by force (it only uses corruption and trickery), or conducted genocide.

I am not here to praise China, but to point out that it is likely to get much worse in the next fifty to hundred years. For now, people talk about the CCP being evil but deep in every country is a group of ultra-nationalist, right-wing, minds that is barely noticeable by the world when a country is weak, but becomes a problem when it is a superpower.

Look at the crazy people in the States, with their racist ideologies, their rejection of science and logic, their MAGA hats, their conspiracy theories and their belief in American Supremacy and their ridiculous constitution. There are millions and millions of these people in the Chinese heartlands, villages and suburbs, who will grow up with a China-centric view of the world, and when China finally rises, these people will be a force that even the CCP cannot contain. They will have the spending power, the voices and the numbers to make life unbearable for everyone else. And as people start hating on China now it will only drive them.

A- If I've learnt anything over the past few years it's that Americans will literally die for that constitution.
We can talk left v right n all that and we have plenty of conversations about the killing of kids in schools but these guys are invested in this and it stays.

B- it makes sense to me that a country would big itself up as much as possible. Esp amongst it's own people like how is that not accepted. I appreciate we are kinda woke now to a bit history and yes it pisses me off at times but I can't blame them for that. Of course Brits will Wana talk about how amazing they were and helped the world out and not about all the skeletons in the closets.

C- The only thing that changes China taking on the world in the next 2/3 decades is
India having the same potential and power, they have a solid nationalist party in ATM and growing economy etc.
Or all our war with someone somewhere.

D- there is literal genocide in China right now, and had been for past maybe 5 odd years. Like literally genocide cultural, social, architectural. People kidnapped and housed in giant camps.

 

[dantes]

History tells us that (1) there will always be a dominant political power in this world; (2) by and large, superpowers are assholes (3) they will get away with it

China is clearly determined to be that dominant power, both in terms of hard and soft power, by as of now, it has not invaded any country with whom it does not share a land border, not supported any coups, not assassinated any leaders, not enslaved any race, not looted any nation's resources by force (it only uses corruption and trickery), or conducted genocide.

I am not here to praise China, but to point out that it is likely to get much worse in the next fifty to hundred years. For now, people talk about the CCP being evil but deep in every country is a group of ultra-nationalist, right-wing, minds that is barely noticeable by the world when a country is weak, but becomes a problem when it is a superpower.

Look at the crazy people in the States, with their racist ideologies, their rejection of science and logic, their MAGA hats, their conspiracy theories and their belief in American Supremacy and their ridiculous constitution. There are millions and millions of these people in the Chinese heartlands, villages and suburbs, who will grow up with a China-centric view of the world, and when China finally rises, these people will be a force that even the CCP cannot contain. They will have the spending power, the voices and the numbers to make life unbearable for everyone else. And as people start hating on China now it will only drive them.

Not without democracy, rule of law, and capitalism they won't. China has had double digit growth since the 60's, and still waiting for the majority of their population to acquire any wealth to speak of.

 

[Frogfish]

Not without democracy, rule of law, and capitalism they won't. China has had double digit growth since the 60's, and still waiting for the majority of their population to acquire any wealth to speak of.

Double digit GDP growth since the 60's ? WTAF. Pre-1980 it was actually averaging around 4.4% (1960-1979) according to some economists (all guesswork of course). Some years high, some negative (down to -16%) and most in single digits.

Wealth to speak of ? The Chinese Middle Class (i.e. US$ millionaires) now number more than the population of the USA, whilst by Western standards of Middle Class it's double that. That's to say nothing of the other 500-600 million lifted above the poverty line. Of course there remains a huge number still below that line but that of the USA isn't now far behind.

China seems to be doing more than alright without democracy, rule of law, and capitalism, it seems !

Back to school Dantes!

NB. Not a pro-China rant, though no doubt there will be some that will take it that way, just a clarification of the facts.

 

[dantes]

Double digit GDP growth since the 60's ? WTAF. Pre-1980 it was actually averaging around 4.4% (1960-1979) according to some economists (all guesswork of course). Some years high, some negative (down to -16%) and most in single digits.

Wealth to speak of ? The Chinese Middle Class (i.e. US$ millionaires) now number more than the population of the USA, whilst by Western standards of Middle Class it's double that. That's to say nothing of the other 500-600 million lifted above the poverty line. Of course there remains a huge number still below that line but that of the USA isn't now far behind.

China seems to be doing more than alright without democracy, rule of law, and capitalism, it seems !

Back to school Dantes!

NB. Not a pro-China rant, though no doubt there will be some that will take it that way, just a clarification of the facts.

https://data.worldbank.org/share/wi...MKTP.KD.ZG&locations=CN&start=1961&view=chart

This graph includes the sixties. Unless I'm reading the numbers wrong, which I might well be, numbers and graphs are not my forte, then some of the readings are in double digits. Although that can't be right, because the average is 4.4%, so I must be making some mistake, because the average doesn't lie.

 

[dantes]

I believe 1,333 is a smaller number than 15,656, but I don't have a calculator to hand right now so don't quote me on that.

 

[Hyena]

A- If I've learnt anything over the past few years it's that Americans will literally die for that constitution.
We can talk left v right n all that and we have plenty of conversations about the killing of kids in schools but these guys are invested in this and it stays.

B- it makes sense to me that a country would big itself up as much as possible. Esp amongst it's own people like how is that not accepted. I appreciate we are kinda woke now to a bit history and yes it pisses me off at times but I can't blame them for that. Of course Brits will Wana talk about how amazing they were and helped the world out and not about all the skeletons in the closets.

C- The only thing that changes China taking on the world in the next 2/3 decades is
India having the same potential and power, they have a solid nationalist party in ATM and growing economy etc.
Or all our war with someone somewhere.

D- there is literal genocide in China right now, and had been for past maybe 5 odd years. Like literally genocide cultural, social, architectural. People kidnapped and housed in giant camps.

I agree with everything you say.

My point is China is a mirror of the west, and will soon be a bigger asshole than it already is.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I agree with everything you say.

My point is China is a mirror of the west, and will soon be a bigger asshole than it already is.

I hope not 'bigger' - but I wouldn't bet against it ...

 

[Atlas]

I agree with everything you say.

My point is China is a mirror of the west, and will soon be a bigger asshole than it already is.

Yup, Thanks for all the cheap stuff.. and the other more expensive stuff.. and the infrastructure.. now Piss off.

Prisoners of Geography is an interesting read

 

[Frogfish]

I believe 1,333 is a smaller number than 15,656, but I don't have a calculator to hand right now so don't quote me on that.

Most certainly what isn't included in your figures is the value of the property owned. The Chinese are massive properties owners all over the country/world. Shanghai is the 4th most expensive city in the world, Beijing 6th and New York 10th (and ave. property value for Shanghai is 50% higher than that of NY, at close to US$1 million ave. per property) - latest figures from CBRE for 2020.

Nomura (you know this massive banking/broking Japanese company):
In fact, 90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What's more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other loans. On top of this, north of 20% of urban households own more than one home.

McKinsey (sure you know this company too and can value it's statements) :
Chinese middle class, a consumer force McKinsey analysis predicts could reach 550 million in three years — that’s more than one-and-a-half times the entire U.S. population today.

American consumer giants and a slew of Chinese companies are now angling for a piece of the largest middle class market in the world.

NOW you can get your calculator out !

 

[Frogfish]

https://data.worldbank.org/share/wi...MKTP.KD.ZG&locations=CN&start=1961&view=chart

This graph includes the sixties. Unless I'm reading the numbers wrong, which I might well be, numbers and graphs are not my forte, then some of the readings are in double digits. Although that can't be right, because the average is 4.4%, so I must be making some mistake, because the average doesn't lie.

The Chinese GDP was all over the place from double digit growth to double digit loss, over those 2 decades.

 

[StevieM]

... graphs are not my forte,...

We hadn’t noticed.

 

[Hyena]

Not without democracy, rule of law, and capitalism they won't. China has had double digit growth since the 60's, and still waiting for the majority of their population to acquire any wealth to speak of.

If you live in East Asia, or have been to China recently, your views would change. The income of a substantial proportion of their population has risen dramatically in the last ten years, in a clear observable way, for better or worse. On your points:

Capitalism - China is capitalism writ large. China is the most profit-driven country I have been to. It makes Texas look like a socialist commune in comparison.

Rule of Law - Internally, there is sufficient rule of law in most Chinese cities to drive income rise. By this, I mean there is no respect for human rights, and plenty of crime and corruption, but actions have a clear predictable outcome, and private contracts are largely enforceable if you make enough noise.

 

[Frogfish]

...Capitalism - China is capitalism writ large. China is the most profit-driven country I have been to. It makes Texas look like a socialist commune in comparison.

Indeed. I've been saying this for years but people seem to believe the Govt. is an obstacle to capitalism. Clearly not true.

 

[dantes]

The Chinese GDP was all over the place from double digit growth to double digit loss, over those 2 decades.

Finally, then we are in agreement about there being double digit growth since the sixties. Every country has swings in GDP, well until central banks decided to suppress the economic cycle.

Most certainly what isn't included in your figures is the value of the property owned. The Chinese are massive properties owners all over the country/world. Shanghai is the 4th most expensive city in the world, Beijing 6th and New York 10th (and ave. property value for Shanghai is 50% higher than that of NY, at close to US$1 million ave. per property) - latest figures from CBRE for 2020.

Nomura (you know this massive banking/broking Japanese company):
In fact, 90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What's more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other loans. On top of this, north of 20% of urban households own more than one home.

McKinsey (sure you know this company too and can value it's statements) :
Chinese middle class, a consumer force McKinsey analysis predicts could reach 550 million in three years — that’s more than one-and-a-half times the entire U.S. population today.

American consumer giants and a slew of Chinese companies are now angling for a piece of the largest middle class market in the world.

NOW you can get your calculator out !

Yes, so the urban chinese are wealthy. A pity that most of the population is rural. Nevermind hey, I'm sure the communist party's brand of superior capitalism will work its way to them if we just wait for McKinsey's three-year forecast to come true.

 

[MomoWASright]

Does anyone know if our resident antique is ok? Has anyone heard from @Portly?

 

[Y1]

Indeed. I've been saying this for years but people seem to believe the Govt. is an obstacle to capitalism. Clearly not true.

The China is one of the most capitalist / business driven country in the world. It so happens it is ruled by a communist party does not quell the desire of the Chinese for profits. Out of a country of 1.6 billion, not all, I dare say maybe only 10% of them are conmunist party member?

 

[Frogfish]

Finally, then we are in agreement about there being double digit growth since the sixties. Every country has swings in GDP, well until central banks decided to suppress the economic cycle.



Yes, so the urban chinese are wealthy. A pity that most of the population is rural. Nevermind hey, I'm sure the communist party's brand of superior capitalism will work its way to them if we just wait for McKinsey's three-year forecast to come true.

Well if you mean agreement on the GDP average from 1960 - 1979 being 4.4% (as you stated above) then Yes. We are in agreement 😉

However regarding China's population demographics you simply have absolutely no idea do you ! I suggest you check up on the growth of China Urbanisation (and I haven't even touched on the subject of multiple property ownership because there were literally no other investment vehicles available for most of the past 30 years). You are in for a shock !

To clarify this for you. New York would only just sneak into the Top 10 most populous cities, at #10. LA, the USA's #2 would rank around #29 and Chicago (#3 in the USA) at #41.

World Population Review : China has 65 cities with more than a million people, 360 cities with between 100,000 and 1 million people, and 388 cities with between 10,000 and 100,000 people. Shanghai is the most populous city in the world with 22,315,474 in the city proper.

 

[Frogfish]

The China is one of the most capitalist / business driven country in the world. It so happens it is ruled by a communist party does not quell the desire of the Chinese for profits. Out of a country of 1.6 billion, not all, I dare say maybe only 10% of them are conmunist party member?

I have no idea but it isn't very high for sure. I only know of one woman & one couple - and that's only so the woman could forward her political career for financial reasons and the couple because he is the current major of a major city (so wife follows suit). Any occasional others in the Party I've only met in passing.

 

[Athens]

Well if you mean agreement on the GDP average from 1960 - 1979 being 4.4% (as you stated above) then Yes. We are in agreement 😉

However regarding China's population demographics you simply have absolutely no idea do you ! I suggest you check up on the growth of China Urbanisation (and I haven't even touched on the subject of multiple property ownership because there were literally no other investment vehicles available for most of the past 30 years). You are in for a shock !

Perhaps Dantes thinks 4.4% counts as double figures??

 

[Frogfish]

Perhaps Dantes thinks 4.4% counts as double figures??

Haha !

 

[Holle]

Apparently parts of Beijing are being locked down again due to a significant increase of infections. They traced the outbreak back to a meat market in South Beijing.

Let's hope they get it under control.

 

[Frogfish]

Apparently parts of Beijing are being locked down again due to a significant increase of infections. They traced the outbreak back to a meat market in South Beijing.

Let's hope they get it under control.

Yep. Beijing's largest wholesale market. Apparently 7 people and found in salmon (or on salmon packaging - not clear yet). They've closed 9 schools in the vicinity.
-------

Beijing reported six confirmed COVID-19 cases on Friday. Together with another case reported on Thursday, all of them are connected to the market or their close contacts.

Xinfadi covers a total area of 112 hectares, the Xinfadi market has some 1,500 management personnel and more than 4,000 tenants.

Xinfadi, the largest wholesale market with fruit, vegetable and meat supplies in Beijing, was suspended on Saturday for disinfection after personnel working there and the surroundings have tested positive for the novel coronavirus.
All personnel who had close contact with the market since May 30 will undergo nucleic acid testing, Gao Xiaojun, a spokesman with the Beijing Municipal Health Commission, told a press conference.

 

[Richey]

Apparently parts of Beijing are being locked down again due to a significant increase of infections. They traced the outbreak back to a meat market in South Beijing.

Let's hope they get it under control.

To be fair this is how control should be working going forward I guess, with lockdowns of small hotspots.

Is this the same kind of market in China where it all started though?

 

[Woland]

It started in a lab duh

 

[Richey]

It started in a lab duh

Sorry, I can't keep up with the theories. Did it still start in China? Or are we now saying it started in Slough or something?

 

[Frogfish]

To be fair this is how control should be working going forward I guess, with lockdowns of small hotspots.

Is this the same kind of market in China where it all started though?

Nothing like it TBH. Details in my post above.