Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[Frogfish]

Not really the point, is it? That's the rhetoric they roll out to get stuff like this passed, "if you've got nothing to hide then why do you care?"

We'll all be walking around with chips implanted in our brains soon enough, "for our own good".

Sensory augmentation ? I'm all for that !

 

[StevieM]

So, an example. An Italian flies in and they say 'dear mr italian, you need to tell us exactly where your staying, and give us your word that you wont go out for 14days'. Mr italian says 'I'm going to be staying at xyz address and no no no I wont go out'.
The police do not have the ability to put surveillance on every single person that enters the country, they can't manage terrorists half the time.
And in the meantime, mr italian has 35 of his closest friends and family round, infects them and they infect loads of others.
Mental.

The only 3 options I can see, is
A quarantine centre of some sorts for 14days and lockdown enforced
They have the ability to do a test in a couple of hours at the airport, en masse, at off-board
They make the country of origin test everyone on the plane before takeoff and provide some sort of cert like a visa or they can't enter (not a temperature bollocks test, a a proper test)

You don’t need surveillance on every person and you don’t need a quarantine centre.

You’ve also got to ask - what are they coming to the country for, how longs the intended stay , etc.

If you’re coming to spend an extended time with your family, for example, wouldn’t you want to take every precaution that you might not infect them.

It’s a lot more workable and easier implemented that you think it is.

 

[StevieM]

The execution. I cannot say whether it will work, or work to the extent that it is worthwhile in comparison with other measures (such as identifying who actually has it before they travel rather than just essentially assuming that everyone who has been on a plane has it).

If it is the only effective way of going forward though, then doing it now rather than a few months ago is a very poor way of going about things. The travel industry has taken an absolute battering already, unsurprisingly, and just when companies are trying to sort out how to get going again, this is just landed on them. Granted they would have at suffered anyway, and I get that everyone’s situation is uncertain, but this is one of those things where the government could have given at least a little more certainty and a little more warning.

I’d imagine indenting who has it before travel would need someone to prove they’d isolated 14 days before travelling or tested, with results just as the board a plane.

I suspect the 14 day rule is as much about discouraging people to travel unless it’s absolutely essential.

The travel industry is fucked - Virgin, Australia’s 2nd biggest carrier has already folded over here. I think it’s unfortunately inevitable that the travel industry is probably going to be hit the hardest - I don’t think there’s any way round that - we just can’t go back to the travel model we had before at least for a while - likely to be years, rather than months.

I’d be looking at 4 weeks of self-isolation if, for any reason I had to go back to the UK under current conditions - 2 weeks when I got there and 2 weeks when I got back - if I could get a flight that wouldn’t ruin me financially - so there are very few reasons where that trip would make any sense.

 

[Farkmaster]

Going into China now returning Chinese are quarantined in special hotels (at their own expense - around US$50 pr day per person) and are not permitted to leave their rooms. Expats are not permitted to enter at the moment.

Yeah, not in Hong Kong, they just do it in your apartment.

 

[rurikbird]

Taiwan’s phone tracking system explained:

https://qz.com/1825997/taiwan-phone-tracking-system-monitors-55000-under-coronavirus-quarantine/

 

[Frogfish]

Yeah, not in Hong Kong, they just do it in your apartment.

Damn. Most HK apts are smaller than prison cells !

 

[Frogfish]

I’d imagine indenting who has it before travel would need someone to prove they’d isolated 14 days before travelling or tested, with results just as the board a plane.

I suspect the 14 day rule is as much about discouraging people to travel unless it’s absolutely essential.

The travel industry is fucked - Virgin, Australia’s 2nd biggest carrier has already folded over here. I think it’s unfortunately inevitable that the travel industry is probably going to be hit the hardest - I don’t think there’s any way round that - we just can’t go back to the travel model we had before at least for a while - likely to be years, rather than months.

I’d be looking at 4 weeks of self-isolation if, for any reason I had to go back to the UK under current conditions - 2 weeks when I got there and 2 weeks when I got back - if I could get a flight that wouldn’t ruin me financially - so there are very few reasons where that trip would make any sense.

I've been checking prices for 2-3 months in advance (both for a trip to the UK, returning home to China and maybe Iceland too for photography (easy to isolate there) ! Prices seem to be lower than usual - once they get planes in the air I guess it's going to be difficult to fill them. Easy exchange or refunds too (unless it's Ryanair who want you to run a marathon to get a refund).

 

[FoxForceFive]

 

[StevieM]

I've been checking prices for 2-3 months in advance (both for a trip to the UK, returning home to China and maybe Iceland too for photography (easy to isolate there) ! Prices seem to be lower than usual - once they get planes in the air I guess it's going to be difficult to fill them. Easy exchange or refunds too (unless it's Ryanair who want you to run a marathon to get a refund).

I haven’t looked at prices, to be honest - I expect to spend the next few years visiting Australian wine regions or maybe NZ again if the restrictions are relaxed between the two countries.

That’s not a bad state of affairs - - probably wasn’t planning on going back to the UK for another 3 years or so.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

We were told to self isolate for fourteen days when we came back into the country on March 17th which we fully complied with.
Like a lot of our restrictions, they are self regulated.
I am not sure how well this is complied with and perhaps in future we may have to be more aggressive in enforcing the regulation but hopefully there is still a large amount of people coming into the county who obey the current restriction.

Agreed. I would hope a lot comply but not everybody is going to comply like yourselves. Some are idiots who think like Gemma O'Doherty, some are just selfish assholes. You guys came back fairly early too. I have no idea why people are flying at the moment. Where are they going? I can't see a reason.

 

[manwithnoname]

What's wrong with wanting to save Western capitalism? What's wrong with people - well, some of them anyway - wanting to go back to work? Who the fuck is going to pay everyone to stay at home all year?

We need to rescue the economy and save as many jobs and industries as possible; we can't have the UK and rest of the world in lockdown indefinitely. I agree with Starmer on this.

 

[doctor_mac]

What's wrong with wanting to save Western capitalism? What's wrong with people - well, some of them anyway - wanting to go back to work? Who the fuck is going to pay everyone to stay at home all year?

We need to rescue the economy and save as many jobs and industries as possible; we can't have the UK and rest of the world in lockdown indefinitely. I agree with Starmer on this.

I do too, but I think that there needs to be much better advice from the government if we're to avoid a new spike. Many countries are insisting that if you leave the home/ take public transport, whatever, you must wear a face mask. Despite the government's early insistence that there was no need for Joe public to wear a face mask (entirely because of fear of extra pressure on vestigial stockpiles of PPE resources), the government now needs to provide explicit advice on this kind of thing. Here's how to make your own mask if you don't have one, here's how to wear it, here's how to clean it. If you don't wear it you're not getting on that train or getting into that shop, and you won't be allowed in your office/ factory/ store.

We do need to begin restarting the economy and saving jobs, but we need to make sure we don't end up back to square one, so we need very explicit and carefully worded government instruction (that even dozy bastards can follow).

 

[rubans]

I do too, but I think that there needs to be much better advice from the government if we're to avoid a new spike. Many countries are insisting that if you leave the home/ take public transport, whatever, you must wear a face mask. Despite the government's early insistence that there was no need for Joe public to wear a face mask (entirely because of fear of extra pressure on vestigial stockpiles of PPE resources), the government now needs to provide explicit advice on this kind of thing. Here's how to make your own mask if you don't have one, here's how to wear it, here's how to clean it. If you don't wear it you're not getting on that train or getting into that shop, and you won't be allowed in your office/ factory/ store.

We do need to begin restarting the economy and saving jobs, but we need to make sure we don't end up back to square one, so we need very explicit and carefully worded government instruction (that even dozy bastards can follow).

Yeag, we all need to starting getting the economy going again but without the right mandatory steps as a perquisite stupid without a worldwide vaccine process.

If there is another jump in numbers straight away then it will only set things back and more loss of confidence in the government. I can tell you for one, just because government says say tomorrow schools are open, large percentage will not send their kids day 1 and loads have lost faith with the government and its scientific panel. They will wait to see what their neighbors do before doing so.

Also, need to face the fact whatever aspect of economy whether East or west is not gong back for a while such as mass gatherings and business where social distancing is in operation.

 

[Judge Jules]

I do too, but I think that there needs to be much better advice from the government if we're to avoid a new spike. Many countries are insisting that if you leave the home/ take public transport, whatever, you must wear a face mask. Despite the government's early insistence that there was no need for Joe public to wear a face mask (entirely because of fear of extra pressure on vestigial stockpiles of PPE resources), the government now needs to provide explicit advice on this kind of thing. Here's how to make your own mask if you don't have one, here's how to wear it, here's how to clean it. If you don't wear it you're not getting on that train or getting into that shop, and you won't be allowed in your office/ factory/ store.

We do need to begin restarting the economy and saving jobs, but we need to make sure we don't end up back to square one, so we need very explicit and carefully worded government instruction (that even dozy bastards can follow).

Largely agree, but just to add I see a fair bit of the current claimed "confusion" as artificial, more a case of individuals or individual groups making excuses for their own reluctance than any actual fuzziness in the directions they've been asked to follow. That's a hurdle we won't cross easily, because there are still too many venal as well as dozy bastards out there.

 

[Frogfish]

I do too, but I think that there needs to be much better advice from the government if we're to avoid a new spike. Many countries are insisting that if you leave the home/ take public transport, whatever, you must wear a face mask. Despite the government's early insistence that there was no need for Joe public to wear a face mask (entirely because of fear of extra pressure on vestigial stockpiles of PPE resources), the government now needs to provide explicit advice on this kind of thing. Here's how to make your own mask if you don't have one, here's how to wear it, here's how to clean it. If you don't wear it you're not getting on that train or getting into that shop, and you won't be allowed in your office/ factory/ store.

We do need to begin restarting the economy and saving jobs, but we need to make sure we don't end up back to square one, so we need very explicit and carefully worded government instruction (that even dozy bastards can follow).

Clearly a lock-down can not go on indefinitely and the Govt. now have to balance the effects of a continued lock-down on people's jobs and the economy.

Maybe once the UK figures get down to under 1,000 (just a figure picked out of thin air) new infections per day they should continue to isolate the most vulnerable (70+, respiratory issues) but most people should be returning to work but absolutely with the implementation of social distancing, disinfecting and the wearing of masks / PPE. However the main problem will be policing this. There needs to be strong measures/penalties for breaking these rules - e.g. bang up anyone refusing to wear a mask in a shop, on public transport etc. for a month.

Look at this protest in Stuttgart this weekend for example :

There will be a rise in infections (see Germany and Singapore) but so long as they are localised and the numbers manageable it shouldn't be so different to the situation at the moment in many places in Europe / Asia where many are returning to relatively normal life.

 

[Rosco]

Not really the point, is it? That's the rhetoric they roll out to get stuff like this passed, "if you've got nothing to hide then why do you care?"

We'll all be walking around with chips implanted in our brains soon enough, "for our own good".

ID2020

 

[StevieM]

I don’t think I want things to go back to the way they were before.

Can we kill this current strain of capitalism and try something else a little less neoliberal & deregulated, with a bit more equality, better distribution of wealth and governments intervening a little more to create a society that’s isn’t left at the whim of market forces?

 

[Halmeister]

I don’t think I want things to go back to the way they were before.

Can we kill this current strain of capitalism and try something else a little less neoliberal & deregulated, with a bit more equality, better distribution of wealth and governments intervening a little more to create a society that’s isn’t left at the whim of market forces?

Pahahaha as if.

 

[Gary25]

Eyeing up a holiday to Spain in August or is that wishful thinking?

 

[the count]

I don’t think I want things to go back to the way they were before.

Can we kill this current strain of capitalism and try something else a little less neoliberal & deregulated, with a bit more equality, better distribution of wealth and governments intervening a little more to create a society that’s isn’t left at the whim of market forces?

Feckin Commie

 

[Woland]

Eyeing up a holiday to Spain in August or is that wishful thinking?

Yep

 

[Woland]

 

[Halmeister]

Someone told me that the tory approval ratings are still through the roof.

Finished this country. The entire planet, actually. Where's that asteroid when you need it?

 

[Hyena]

The UK doesn't have border controls???????????!!?????????????????????

 

[Richey]

Someone told me that the tory approval ratings are still through the roof.

Finished this country. The entire planet, actually. Where's that asteroid when you need it?

They are NOW, but ultimately lockdown is still popular apparently, and the government is still keeping lockdown. Also, the government is still throwing huge sums of money at people. It’s little wonder really that Sunak in particular is popular when every time he appears on our TV screens he is giving people money.

People are always naturally likely to support a government DURING a crisis because they want said government to succeed, as it is in our interests for the government to succeed.

Down the line when people start picking over what happened, when the impact on the economy starts to bite, and before then, when the government actually starts taking decisions that are not backed up by public opinion but that it HAS to do at some time (easing the lockdown for example), things may not look so rosy in terms of approval ratings.

 

[Halmeister]

I understand all that, and that's all logical and reasonable...

But nah. Most people aren't logical and reasonable. Most of them are twats and retards. The Tories will be fine. They'll just deflect and blame someone else, or talk about how great a job they're doing, and everyone will lap it up. Just like, well, just like they're doing now.

 

[Richey]

Eyeing up a holiday to Spain in August or is that wishful thinking?

I’d say probably, yes, I’m afraid. Although I expect you will be able to go if you really want to, you may have to quarantine when you return, you may even have to quarantine there and even if you don’t it might be a bit shit while you are there in terms of things being open.

I’m due to go away in July and have pretty much written it off now.

 

[Richey]

I understand all that, and that's all logical and reasonable...

But nah. Most people aren't logical and reasonable. Most of them are twats and retards. The Tories will be fine. They'll just deflect and blame someone else, or talk about how great a job they're doing, and everyone will lap it up. Just like, well, just like they're doing now.

Yeah, that is obviously possible too.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I've written off foreign holidays in 2020. Maybe early next year.

 

[Rosco]

I don’t think I want things to go back to the way they were before.

Can we kill this current strain of capitalism and try something else a little less neoliberal & deregulated, with a bit more equality, better distribution of wealth and governments intervening a little more to create a society that’s isn’t left at the whim of market forces?

That's against the law in Europe.