What's the alternative to herd immunity ?
Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?
- Thread starter manwithnoname
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What's the alternative to herd immunity ?
The alternative is too late.. the government acted far too late with lockdown and too leiniant when they eventually did..
They where irresponsibille touting the herd immunity approach.
They are now pushing the onus back on to the public, and will probably come up with some bullshit 'we told you so' scenario in the next few weeks.. likely to push their original approach.. ( which some would argue, with a valid reasoning was their intention all along )...
I mean it's been one calamity after another with the government over this crisis.. The afternoon daily breifings do nothing for this crisis, they just cause confusion and serve to fuel the government's propaganda machine
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What is the alternative ?
Well, if I learned anything from the last foot and mouth crisis the alternative is to shoot everyone.
Literally everyone staying at home for the rest of their lives I assume.
With what aim in mind ?
Getting it under control won't happen without a thorough lockdown, that time has passed.. Even when it was in place, it was half hearted approach, which is why Herd Immunity is the government's approach and has been all long..
But yeh, regarding your comments that's exactly what should have happened
But yeah Brits know better.. Bulldog spirit and all that..
[emoji34]
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Comes to something when I'm finding myself actually agreeing with Piers Morgan... Id never thought id see the day..
New Zealand, where their PM actually has a conscience, & uses it to protect the lives of her constituents, instead of the bottom line of the wealthy. Not having a selfish neo-liberalist eugenics driven party is good for society shocker.
While getting to herd immunity.
The alternative to it is making sure nobody gets the virus.
Isn't it more a case of "while a vaccine is found, so we can then have a chance at getting herd immunity"?
The alternative is managing hot spots as they emerge so you are dealing with the problem with a scalpel rather than turning the whole country off.
If the problem is seasonal, and immunity doesn't last that long, then herd immunity is meaningless, and we don't even know that yet.
You mean like Singapore that's now seeing their highest daily increases by far ? And whose own PM said that contact tracing only works when countries, populations and infections are small ?
Contact tracing undoubtedly is a tool in the box but it's not a panacea by a long way. Probably only really useful in the early days of the outbreak (or when it's way way past it's peak). Italy and South Korea both gave up on it after the infections became too numerous (it's extremely labour intensive - which is why it doesn't work for large outbreaks or high population/density countries), lockdowns worked far better.
It's likely a great tool for when infections fall to manageable numbers though.
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Yes I get the arguments against Piers, its refreshing though, whatever way you look at it..
Whilst the media is being nothing but the voice of the government, where their headlines are causing more confusion, Piers is doing what any journalist should be doing...
...Holding them to account.. with very good and valid reasons as to why he should be doing exactly that....
You do feel though the more he makes noise over this, the government's propaganda machine will do all they can to discredit him..
Oh but Boris, etc, etc, etc..
No way am I defending our government, and New Zealand have done very well. But it is no doubt easier to apply and enforce those measures and see success in New Zealand when their country is larger than the UK, but has a population of less than 5 million. That's about half the population of London alone.
That said, our government is run by incompetent, evil lizards, of course. But I don't think those same measures would be as simple and as effective here.
They would be better than what these fuckwits have done, though, so I suppose that's the main thing.
Frankly it's ridiculous to even try comparing NZ to the UK or indeed any large nation in close contact to other nations.
A country which is virtually isolated, has a ridiculously low population density, was in the middle of their Summer when it hit and has a very very low number of business travellers compared to those in Europe or the USA. To say nothing of about as many international flights a day as Luton airport. HK is by far a better example of how to manage the outbreak.
Time have a piece on the futility of comparing them here : https://time.com/5824042/new-zealand-coronavirus-elimination/
Masks, disinfect, isolate and lockdown. They initially tried contact tracing but eventually were forced to give up in depth analysis due to the sheer weight of numbers.
The leadership approach can still be compared surely?
Japan were strangely late to the party in locking down trips from China (which provides a huge percentage of Japan's visitor numbers). But they wear masks anyway if they have a fever/cold/flu to protect others so mask-wearing never an issue. Maybe @juniormember can update us ?
Personally I think Adhern is awesome - although I'm sure their success story is not down to her alone so much as their geographical position and low population. Swap Ireland and NZ geographically - would she then have been as successful? Almost certainly not.
I don't really believe there is one set of protocol that meets the needs of every country though. There are so many other factors at play; cultural, geographical, weather, population and wealth.
Likely not on this forum. But as always clarity helps rather than isolated statements. Hence a basket of measures taken at the right time.
I'm actually not sure what you're responding to. Maybe I missed where people said she would achieve the same results if she was in charge of a different country.
Based on what I see in this thread, the more pertinent question would be: if she was in Boris position, do you think the outcomes would be better or worse?
We don't disagree on any of this