Carra??? Really???

[Red Astaire]

Evening folks - Thought I'd start off a little debate about our vice captain. He's now 33 gonna be hitting 34 in January. Just want to know what your thoughts are about him this coming season and how we could deploy him in the future. With news that the reds are linked with one of Dann, Cahill and Shawcross. Plus the fact that Agger is back (injuries pending) Plus we have good defenders already in Skittles and possibly Kelly at CB - Does anyone think it's time we eased down using him?

What are peoples thoughts on how he played last season? For the record he played 28 in the league last season (his lowest in nearly 10 years) - I know it's only been pre season but frankly he's looked pretty poor even by the rest of the teams standards (Poulson aside of cause).

I'm not in anyway doubting the great man's past ability as he's been a proper legend at the club. But there does come a time..... Any thoughts?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

His time will come, but it wont be this season. I do hope we get in a centre back though, as soon as possible.

 

[Wilko7]

In my opinion, his legs started going three years ago and he's been on a gradual decline since. He still has something to offer however I'd prefer that we do not rely on him to play every game.

 

[Red Astaire]

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=46326.msg1374251#msg1374251 date=1312398894]
In my opinion, his legs started going three years ago and he's been on a gradual decline since. He still has something to offer however I'd prefer that we do not rely on him to play every game.
[/quote]

Yeah those are my thoughts too. What ones though? Home or away games? Pace seems to be pretty vital nowadays as a defender - Not to mention distribution.... Sad but true I feel.

 

[mark1975]

Agger and Skrtel have barely played together but when they have it's looked fairly promising, Skrtel isn't too dissimilar to Carra (Carra was as error prone as Skittles at the same age), both are dogged and gritty while Agger is more cultured, so they compliment each other. That said, I still think we need a commanding centre half who's good aerially.,

 

[Gary25]

Every match next season will be a big one for us in our quest at getting back into the Champions League, but it'd like to think we can rest Carragher against the lesser sides so to speak.

If we're playing United, Chelsea, Arsenal, the Derby etc etc then Carra's still the man you want to lead the defence.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Red Astaire link=topic=46326.msg1374252#msg1374252 date=1312399093]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=46326.msg1374251#msg1374251 date=1312398894]
In my opinion, his legs started going three years ago and he's been on a gradual decline since. He still has something to offer however I'd prefer that we do not rely on him to play every game.
[/quote]

Yeah those are my thoughts too. What ones though? Home or away games? Pace seems to be pretty vital nowadays as a defender - Not to mention distribution.... Sad but true I feel.
[/quote]

Pace is nice but isn't vital (Sami never had any, nor has Terry for example) provided the player's other qualities can make up for any lack of it. The question is whether Carra's passed the point at which that's true of him. I don't think he has yet, but I don't think it'll be long now either.

Which games should Carra play? Depends on whom he'll be up against. As long as Agger remains an injury risk, we'll probably find Carra getting pressed into service more often than any of us would like, which is one reason why IMO we need a CB more than a LB.

 

[Buddha]

We really do need another young Carra in this summer. Give Jamie an opportunity to be rested when needed or is his form declines sharply (I'd still count on him in big games at present).

Also would give said new player a season to bed in whilst Carra is still first choice.

Incidentally (even before the Valerenga game) I've a feeling that Agger will stay both fit and in great form all season. Irrational I know, but he's too good a player not to fulfil his potential for us.

 

[Wilko7]

Jules - I wasn't necessarily referring to his pace but more so the spring in his legs when challenging in the air. Sami remained dominant in the heading dept.

 

[Judge Jules]

Gotcha.

 

[Fabio]

God john terry is overrated

 

[Sunny]

It would be great if Agger stayed fit for a season. Unlikely though would be good

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46326.msg1374265#msg1374265 date=1312401360]
It would be great if Agger stayed fit for a season. Unlikely though would be good
[/quote]

it'd take jesus walking up to him and giving it everything he's got in order to get agger to play half a season for us

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46326.msg1374264#msg1374264 date=1312401280]
God john terry is overrated
[/quote]

He really is. Has he ever had a good game for England? He's their weak link in almost every match.

Also, last season for Chelsea he was shite.

 

[Fabio]

He looked so good as long as he did because of carvalho, and when he's not next to luiz/alex he's shite. He needs a defender to sweep up after him.

He intercepts some first balls but his tackling is shite

 

[Judge Jules]

It's possible to be a good player and still be overrated. Terry is a very good club player who IMO has never been international class. He has had good games for England, but only against nowhere teams who pose no threat.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46326.msg1374272#msg1374272 date=1312401763]
He looked so good as long as he did because of carvalho, and when he's not next to luiz/alex he's shite. He needs a defender to sweep up after him.

He intercepts some first balls but his tackling is shite
[/quote]

True. I don't think it's all down to his lack of pace either...his positional play and timing is brutal at times. Leads to him being rash and getting caught out.

It's funny how Terry's poor performances seem to go unnoticed in the media.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46326.msg1374275#msg1374275 date=1312401888]
It's possible to be a good player and still be overrated. Terry is a very good club player who IMO has never been international class. He has had good games for England, but only against nowhere teams who pose no threat.
[/quote]

whilst true, especially with the english media, i think john terry is at the very best "average". It's particularly galling to me how he is lavished praise even though he's a massive cock.

 

[Fallon]

Didn't carra have that shoulder injury last year? If so that might have something to do with the lowest starts for years.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46326.msg1374272#msg1374272 date=1312401763]
He looked so good as long as he did because of carvalho, and when he's not next to luiz/alex he's shite. He needs a defender to sweep up after him.

He intercepts some first balls but his tackling is shite
[/quote]

I don't think that's really fair, as much as I loathe Terry, any centre back is only as good as the partnership is and especially in that position, the partnership has to be right and has to compliment. If you'd put Sami alongside someone like Hangeland it would probably get torn a new arse against a few of the more nippy sides, likewise if you put him next to someone like Djimi Traore, you'd see the same outcome, Sami being exposed and made to look poor, it happened.

Same with Carra, his partnership with Skrtel hasn't been all that, but both players played really well individually when they had to partner Sami in the middle (like Skrtel and Sami at Old Trafford in the 4-1 win for example). You'd imagine it'd be the same kind of thing with Agger too, as he compliments Carra and Skrtel (when fit, obv).

 

[Wilko7]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46326.msg1374265#msg1374265 date=1312401360]
It would be great if Agger stayed fit for a season. Unlikely though would be good
[/quote]

Agreed. He's a great player and our team is better with him playing.

 

[Red Astaire]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46326.msg1374276#msg1374276 date=1312402004]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46326.msg1374272#msg1374272 date=1312401763]
He looked so good as long as he did because of carvalho, and when he's not next to luiz/alex he's shite. He needs a defender to sweep up after him.

He intercepts some first balls but his tackling is shite
[/quote]

True. I don't think it's all down to his lack of pace either...his positional play and timing is brutal at times. Leads to him being rash and getting caught out.

It's funny how Terry's poor performances seem to go unnoticed in the media.
[/quote]

Oh please.....

 

[Red Astaire]

Maybe I should elaborate on that comment instead of sounding like a condescending twat! I mean it annoys me when people think there's a whole press 'agenda' thing in regards to certain players.

Terry for one has been pretty vilified on occasions, So has Ronaldo, So has Vidic, Other high profile players/managers have certainly had there fair share. Rooney, Maureen.... There are loads. Arsenal seem pretty immune to it all but then again they are not that bad really. Just saying 😛

 

[Fabio]

I don't remember terry getting much/any stick when he's been poor. He only tends to get lambasted when he's a cunt off the pitch!

 

[Red Astaire]

I'm not saying he's amazing but he's hardly dropping clangers every week is he? I mean he was consistantly the captain of his club and county. Has won several top flight trophies and been one of the best CB in the Premiership in the last 6-7 years. He is a knob of no dispute but a talented one.

Needless to say he got flack for his 2008 England performances not least his off the pitch activities. Rightly so the chave wanker 😉

Getting back on topic did Carra really shag his mum??!!! 😉

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46326.msg1374270#msg1374270 date=1312401584]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46326.msg1374264#msg1374264 date=1312401280]
God john terry is overrated
[/quote]

He really is.
[/quote]

Bollocks. He's an outstanding centre back, has been for fucking years, and Chelsea would have won fuck all without him over the last 6/7 years.

Wise up.

 

[LarryHagman]

Carra, like Terry, is an excellent defender. DEFENDER. I know people like the fact that Agger can pass and scored a good long range goal about 5 years ago but there are occasions when he's nowhere to be found when a cross comes into our box. Likewise Skrtel, who's also good but prone to the odd brain lapse.
If we were playing Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, AC Milan, Juve, whoever, Carra would and should be the 1st defender on the team sheet. And he'd be the first one those teams expect to see. They'd be rubbing their hands if he wasn't there.

 

[Ryan]

Larry speaks truths.

 

[ILD]

Terry was/is a very strong player. Great in the air and fierce in the tackle. He had the advantage of standing beside Carvalho who was fantastic for Chelsea. I think Terry lacks a bit of pace and I hate the fact he got away with a good few obvious handballs (petty I know). I'm not saying he's over rated but he isn't a patch on say Vidic who is probably the best in the league.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=46326.msg1374332#msg1374332 date=1312420393]
Terry was/is a very strong player. Great in the air and fierce in the tackle. He had the advantage of standing beside Carvalho who was fantastic for Chelsea. I think Terry lacks a bit of pace and I hate the fact he got away with a good few obvious handballs (petty I know). I'm not saying he's over rated but he isn't a patch on say Vidic who is probably the best in the league.
[/quote]

Agree with most of that. Terry is and has been a very good CB for his club for a number of years but he's also been far from peerless. That said, saying he's no good without x, y or z playing next to him is nuts. If you look good with three different CB's in the epl then you can be confident that you're good in your own right.

I personally don't think we need another Carra - at least not someone who possesses the same physical qualities. We've been saying it since the end of the 08/09 season but we need a thumping great monster at the back to make us tick. I know some posters hate him and others think he's over rated but Vidic sitting beside Agger would look like a dream partnership. The only issue would be I'm not convinced either of them could really fulfill the organiser role. That makes me think Hummels would be good - he's big enough, ugly enough and can organise. His pace would be a handy bonus.

A commanding CB is our number one requirement in my mind. LB is no more important than a number of other positions on the field but that big CB is something we really need.