BYE BYE ROY!!!!!

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=42120.msg1218483#msg1218483 date=1289808384]
I did allude to that lil facteroo a few weeks back,foxy.

Bunnyman et al deemed it irrelevent.

Fucking mental statistic
[/quote]

I didn't deem it irrelevant, you prat. I said it had been discussed to death on about 100 other threads already. Which it had.

 

[spider-Neil]

further to post my last post, away wins to wigan and stoke would have seen us on 21 points, ahead of spurs and 1 point behind man city despite our worst start for decades so anyone who says we couldn't challenge for 4th with our current squad with better manager doesn't know what they're fucking talking about. that's directed at vlad. if you feel you can insult me with impunity then I have no problem with being rude in return.

regards.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218496#msg1218496 date=1289809013]
further to post my last post, away wins to wigan and stoke would have seen us on 21 points, ahead of spurs and 1 point behind man city despite our worst start for decades so anyone who says we couldn't challenge for 4th with our current squad with better manager doesn't know what they're fucking talking about. that's directed at vlad. if you feel you can insult me with impunity then I have no problem with being rude in return.

regards.
[/quote]

'a little more daft' is hardly a 'fucking insult'.

You normally take insults like a duck in the rain anyway. Why the outrage this time?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42120.msg1218485#msg1218485 date=1289808485]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218477#msg1218477 date=1289808241]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1218421#msg1218421 date=1289780911]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218290#msg1218290 date=1289758654]
continuing on my last post, I'm of the belief we possess enough players of quality to at last challenge top 4
[/quote]

In which case you are a little more daft than even I gave you credit for Neil

regards
[/quote]

bullshit.

inept tactics has seen us lose to the like of blackpool at home and stock away. just last week we were 5 points of 4th place. so you can come out with all the insults you like but competent tactics and management would see us pushing for 4th. we're not far off 4th NOW despite the worst starts for decades. so cut out the fucking insults.

regards.
[/quote]

I've believed that for ages Neil, but I really don't anymore, the likes of Maxi, Lucas, Konchesky etc are average and we're not going to make the top 4 with them in there everyweek. Some of our players have been a disgrace at times this season, their attitudes stink and their effort and ability to pass the ball three yards can't solely be blamed on the manager.

We need a new manager and we need a handful of new players and some of the young lads deserve a chance ahead of the shite that's getting paid millions for fuck all.
[/quote]

I wasn't talking about challenging for the league which I readily agree we don't the depth to do I was talking about challenging for 4th. and fucking competent manager should be able to achieve that with our current squad. we've taken 1 from several teams and pissed away points at home, as seen against chelsea the team has played within itself far too often.

I would expect a competent manager to win most of our home games (look who we've played at home this season ffs!!) and taken more points away from home than roy who must have the worst or close to worst away record in the league.

top 3 places are pretty much secure, spurs and man city are inconsistent as hell, a completent manager would be able to challenge that. we're not far off it and we are all over the fucking place.

the current manager has gleened us a little over a point a game, you mean to tell me a better manager couldn't do better and in turn have have closer to city WITH THE CURRENT SQUAD? whatever.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42120.msg1218499#msg1218499 date=1289809091]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218496#msg1218496 date=1289809013]
further to post my last post, away wins to wigan and stoke would have seen us on 21 points, ahead of spurs and 1 point behind man city despite our worst start for decades so anyone who says we couldn't challenge for 4th with our current squad with better manager doesn't know what they're fucking talking about. that's directed at vlad. if you feel you can insult me with impunity then I have no problem with being rude in return.

regards.
[/quote]

'a little more daft' is hardly a 'fucking insult'.

You normally take insults like a duck in the rain anyway. Why the outrage this time?

[/quote]

there's plenty of times I disagree with posts but I don't counter with insults.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218502#msg1218502 date=1289809454]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42120.msg1218485#msg1218485 date=1289808485]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218477#msg1218477 date=1289808241]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1218421#msg1218421 date=1289780911]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218290#msg1218290 date=1289758654]
continuing on my last post, I'm of the belief we possess enough players of quality to at last challenge top 4
[/quote]

In which case you are a little more daft than even I gave you credit for Neil

regards
[/quote]

bullshit.

inept tactics has seen us lose to the like of blackpool at home and stock away. just last week we were 5 points of 4th place. so you can come out with all the insults you like but competent tactics and management would see us pushing for 4th. we're not far off 4th NOW despite the worst starts for decades. so cut out the fucking insults.

regards.
[/quote]

I've believed that for ages Neil, but I really don't anymore, the likes of Maxi, Lucas, Konchesky etc are average and we're not going to make the top 4 with them in there everyweek. Some of our players have been a disgrace at times this season, their attitudes stink and their effort and ability to pass the ball three yards can't solely be blamed on the manager.

We need a new manager and we need a handful of new players and some of the young lads deserve a chance ahead of the shite that's getting paid millions for fuck all.
[/quote]

I wasn't talking about challenging for the league which I readily agree we don't the depth to do I was talking about challenging for 4th. and fucking competent manager should be able to achieve that with our current squad. we've taken 1 from several teams and pissed away points at home, as seen against chelsea the team has played within itself far too often.

I would expect a competent manager to win most of our home games (look who we've played at home this season ffs!!) and taken more points away from home than roy who must have the worst or close to worst away record in the league.

top 3 places are pretty much secure, spurs and man city are inconsistent as hell, a completent manager would be able to challenge that. we're not far off it and we are all over the fucking place.
[/quote]

Possibly, but we had a very good manager last year who couldnt do it either...

This was raised last season as well; Rafa can justificably say that a lot of his players let him down and that was why we ended up 7th.

HOwever, it's always the manager to get chopped when the team has failed for the simple reason that it's easier to sack one man than the entire team.

We're now approachin the same issue again, with a far worse manager.

HOdgson is going to go eventually,make no mistake.

The problem of the poor squad is going to take a while to fix though.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42120.msg1218519#msg1218519 date=1289810883]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218502#msg1218502 date=1289809454]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42120.msg1218485#msg1218485 date=1289808485]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218477#msg1218477 date=1289808241]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1218421#msg1218421 date=1289780911]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218290#msg1218290 date=1289758654]
continuing on my last post, I'm of the belief we possess enough players of quality to at last challenge top 4
[/quote]

In which case you are a little more daft than even I gave you credit for Neil

regards
[/quote]

bullshit.

inept tactics has seen us lose to the like of blackpool at home and stock away. just last week we were 5 points of 4th place. so you can come out with all the insults you like but competent tactics and management would see us pushing for 4th. we're not far off 4th NOW despite the worst starts for decades. so cut out the fucking insults.

regards.
[/quote]

I've believed that for ages Neil, but I really don't anymore, the likes of Maxi, Lucas, Konchesky etc are average and we're not going to make the top 4 with them in there everyweek. Some of our players have been a disgrace at times this season, their attitudes stink and their effort and ability to pass the ball three yards can't solely be blamed on the manager.

We need a new manager and we need a handful of new players and some of the young lads deserve a chance ahead of the shite that's getting paid millions for fuck all.
[/quote]

I wasn't talking about challenging for the league which I readily agree we don't the depth to do I was talking about challenging for 4th. and fucking competent manager should be able to achieve that with our current squad. we've taken 1 from several teams and pissed away points at home, as seen against chelsea the team has played within itself far too often.

I would expect a competent manager to win most of our home games (look who we've played at home this season ffs!!) and taken more points away from home than roy who must have the worst or close to worst away record in the league.

top 3 places are pretty much secure, spurs and man city are inconsistent as hell, a completent manager would be able to challenge that. we're not far off it and we are all over the fucking place.
[/quote]

Possibly, but we had a very good manager last year who couldnt do it either...

This was raised last season as well; Rafa can justificably say that a lot of his players let him down and that was why we ended up 7th.

HOwever, it's always the manager to get chopped when the team has failed for the simple reason that it's easier to sack one man than the entire team.

We're now approachin the same issue again, with a far worse manager.

HOdgson is going to go eventually,make no mistake.

The problem of the poor squad is going to take a while to fix though.


[/quote]

if 2 seasons past was the squad overachieving then last season was underachievement. under performing players and injuries. roy was supposed to come in and 'steady the ship' make the obvious choices and he hasn't down that but despite all of that we are 6 points off top 4. 4th isn't and never was beyond our reach with the crop of players we have, what has cost us is an overly cautious mentaility and clueless tactics.

 

[mark1975]

Neil, it's worth remembering that when we punched above our weight we had Hyypia, Masher and Alonso, that would make a huge difference to us right now and also Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt were all in far better form than they are now, and the latter two were a few years younger too (ditto Carragher).

Basically we've lost a few good players and not replaced them, we also had a very good back four but we've struggled to replace Finnan and Riise too. A few players have gotten older and some of the players we're relying on now are nowhere near the same quality as those mentioned in this post.

 

[Avmenon]

'Overachieve', 'underachieve', what do they even mean?

If a manager has done well with a squad, that means something has been achieved.

Looking at squads to say a club has under or over-achieved is neither here nor there.

The squad was weak last year, and Poulsen has managed to make a weak squad even weaker; by dumping Aquilani and bringing in Crapsen.

(can't really blame him for Mascherano's departure, and Insua is even worse than Konchesky)

 

[mark1975]

After the game against Stoke, I'd be tempted to throw a few of the younger lads in against West Ham, we need the points but frankly, a few of those useless cunts don't deserve to play, and they certainly don't deserve to hide behind the fact we'll have the home crowd behind us against a poor side.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42120.msg1218529#msg1218529 date=1289811814]
'Overachieve', 'underachieve', what do they even mean?

If a manager has done well with a squad, that means something has been achieved.

Looking at squads to say a club has under or over-achieved is neither here nor there.

The squad was weak last year, and Poulsen has managed to make a weak squad even weaker; by dumping Aquilani and bringing in Crapsen.

(can't really blame him for Mascherano's departure, and Insua is even worse than Konchesky)


[/quote]

I mean I thought 2nd was above our tre level like 7th was below our true level. when rafa had us comfortably in the top 4 this was our true level and it would take heavy investment (beyond what he had been already given) to make him 'genuinely' challenge for the top.

right now I think our 'true' level is about 5th this is what I mean when I say we have the sqaud to 'challenge' for 4th and a competent manager would have gleened us more away points would have seen us closer to 4th then roy has managed so far.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42120.msg1218462#msg1218462 date=1289799204]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218443#msg1218443 date=1289790426]
Here is the thing....I don't even think that Roy Hodgson is a nice guy. He comes across as a horrible person. He doesn't have one redeeming factor as far as i'm concerned.

There, i said it.
[/quote]

That's just bitter reactionary nonsense to be honest. Just because he hasn't gelled with us doesn't make him "a horrible person". He's a decent old man hopelessly out of his depth, that's all.
[/quote]

That's true, but I have grown to dislike him immensely during his time here at Liverpool.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218534#msg1218534 date=1289812241]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42120.msg1218529#msg1218529 date=1289811814]
'Overachieve', 'underachieve', what do they even mean?

If a manager has done well with a squad, that means something has been achieved.

Looking at squads to say a club has under or over-achieved is neither here nor there.

The squad was weak last year, and Poulsen has managed to make a weak squad even weaker; by dumping Aquilani and bringing in Crapsen.

(can't really blame him for Mascherano's departure, and Insua is even worse than Konchesky)


[/quote]

I mean I thought 2nd was above our tre level like 7th was below our true level. when rafa had us comfortably in the top 4 this was our true level and it would take heavy investment (beyond what he had been already given) to make him 'genuinely' challenge for the top.

right now I think our 'true' level is about 5th this is what I mean when I say we have the sqaud to 'challenge' for 4th and a competent manager would have gleened us more away points would have seen us closer to 4th then roy has managed so far.
[/quote]

We didnt overachieve the 2nd place. We actually dropped to many uneccesary points at one stage. What happened during the spring was that we gained a momentum of winning, and kept the momentum going. We had a decent squad that hought they were unbeatable, and it proved that they were. That is all about management. Not bumbling away about how we will loose games we expect to win, and fans can chant other names when we wloose, because rest assure we will loose more.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42120.msg1218462#msg1218462 date=1289799204]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218443#msg1218443 date=1289790426]
Here is the thing....I don't even think that Roy Hodgson is a nice guy. He comes across as a horrible person. He doesn't have one redeeming factor as far as i'm concerned.

There, i said it.
[/quote]

That's just bitter reactionary nonsense to be honest. Just because he hasn't gelled with us doesn't make him "a horrible person". He's a decent old man hopelessly out of his depth, that's all.
[/quote]

I don't agree. His insulting statements about the fans, about other managers and even about other countries are very revealing. Pressure tends to bring out a person's true qualities, and bitterness and insecurity are pretty clearly prominent among Hodgson's. This BTW would not come as a surprise to people who know him from the other countries in which he's worked.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42120.msg1218552#msg1218552 date=1289814830]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42120.msg1218462#msg1218462 date=1289799204]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218443#msg1218443 date=1289790426]
Here is the thing....I don't even think that Roy Hodgson is a nice guy. He comes across as a horrible person. He doesn't have one redeeming factor as far as i'm concerned.

There, i said it.
[/quote]

That's just bitter reactionary nonsense to be honest. Just because he hasn't gelled with us doesn't make him "a horrible person". He's a decent old man hopelessly out of his depth, that's all.
[/quote]

I don't agree. His insulting statements about the fans, about other managers and even about other countries are very revealing. Pressure tends to bring out a person's true qualities, and bitterness and insecurity are pretty clearly prominent among Hodgson's. This BTW would not come as a surprise to people who know him from the other countries in which he's worked.
[/quote]

Well to be fair I never heard much from him here in Norway. He was mostly ignored by the media, as he was an unisnspiring coach training an uninspiring team to an uninspiring 7th place in the uninspiring tippeliga.

But hey, this is way back. This was in 2006 so he must have been setting the world in fire somewhere else since then?

 

[Judge Jules]

I've been told he had a name for a quick temper in Italy and, when that statement of his about "Denmark - another country I'm glad I don't work in" was reported, there were media references to the fact that this didn't come as a surprise to Danish journos who, on the contrary, WERE surprised at his "decent guy" rep over here.

 

[RolandG]

How much longer are Henry and the Board going tomake us suffer?

Put us out of our misery. Sack Roy now!

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218477#msg1218477 date=1289808241]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1218421#msg1218421 date=1289780911]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1218290#msg1218290 date=1289758654]
continuing on my last post, I'm of the belief we possess enough players of quality to at last challenge top 4
[/quote]

In which case you are a little more daft than even I gave you credit for Neil

regards
[/quote]

bullshit.

inept tactics has seen us lose to the like of blackpool at home and stock away. just last week we were 5 points of 4th place. so you can come out with all the insults you like but competent tactics and management would see us pushing for 4th. we're not far off 4th NOW despite the worst starts for decades. so cut out the fucking insults.

regards.
[/quote]

When was the last time we occupied a top four position?

People who believe the above to me are yet another example who will just make shit up to use as material against Hodgson. I really don't know why. There's more than enough valid criticisms to choose from.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42120.msg1218561#msg1218561 date=1289816046]
When was the last time we occupied a top four position?

People who believe the above to me are yet another example who will just make shit up to use as material against Hodgson. I really don't know why. There's more than enough valid criticisms to choose from.
[/quote]

Spidey is right.

We're 6pts off 4th despite playing under a manager who everyone regards as a complete liability that should be sacked immediately. Furthermore, every other team has been pretty inconsistent so far this season.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218565#msg1218565 date=1289816578]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42120.msg1218561#msg1218561 date=1289816046]
When was the last time we occupied a top four position?

People who believe the above to me are yet another example who will just make shit up to use as material against Hodgson. I really don't know why. There's more than enough valid criticisms to choose from.
[/quote]

Spidey is right.

We're 6pts off 4th despite playing under a manager who everyone regards as a complete liability that should be sacked immediately. Furthermore, every other team has been pretty inconsistent so far this season.
[/quote]

We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218565#msg1218565 date=1289816578]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42120.msg1218561#msg1218561 date=1289816046]
When was the last time we occupied a top four position?

People who believe the above to me are yet another example who will just make shit up to use as material against Hodgson. I really don't know why. There's more than enough valid criticisms to choose from.
[/quote]

Spidey is right.

We're 6pts off 4th despite playing under a manager who everyone regards as a complete liability that should be sacked immediately. Furthermore, every other team has been pretty inconsistent so far this season.
[/quote]

We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

4th isn't a divine right, and no one should 'expect' 4th but we definately have a squad to CHALLENGE for 4th, we're only 6 points off 4th now despite having possibly the worst liverpool manager EVER at the helm.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

We have indeed had this argument before, which is why you should know that no-one is talking about "expecting" a top four finish, but rather making a bit of more of a go at challenging for it. Last season, we were there or thereabouts for fourth at times despite being rubbish, so your argument of not being able to produce any kind of reasoned logic to back this argument up is wrong. We weren't a million miles away. We ultimately failed and drifted off towards the end, but then that's why everyone wanted Rafa sacked, isn't it?

This season we've been far far worse, so now everyone wants Roy sacked... knowing that without a manager who holds us back, we can be a little better. So given that we're not *that* far off top, what exactly are your expectations for a new manager to do a little bit better because right about now you guys are basically giving out the same loser'ish vibes that Roy is getting such a hard time over.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218575#msg1218575 date=1289817362]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

We have indeed had this argument before, which is why you should know that no-one is talking about "expecting" a top four finish, but rather making a bit of more of a go at challenging for it. Last season, we were there or thereabouts for fourth at times despite being rubbish, so your argument of not being able to produce any kind of reasoned logic to back this argument up is wrong. We weren't a million miles away. We ultimately failed and drifted off towards the end, but then that's why everyone wanted Rafa sacked, isn't it?

This season we've been far far worse, so now everyone wants Roy sacked... knowing that without a manager who holds us back, we can be a little better. So given that we're not *that* far off top, what exactly are your expectations for a new manager to do a little bit better because right about now you guys are basically giving out the same loser'ish vibes that Roy is getting such a hard time over.
[/quote]

I wish you were the manager of liverpool, keni 🙂

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218575#msg1218575 date=1289817362]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

We have indeed had this argument before, which is why you should know that no-one is talking about "expecting" a top four finish, but rather making a bit of more of a go at challenging for it. Last season, we were there or thereabouts for fourth at times despite being rubbish, so your argument of not being able to produce any kind of reasoned logic to back this argument up is wrong. We weren't a million miles away. We ultimately failed and drifted off towards the end, but then that's why everyone wanted Rafa sacked, isn't it?

This season we've been far far worse, so now everyone wants Roy sacked... knowing that without a manager who holds us back, we can be a little better. So given that we're not *that* far off top, what exactly are your expectations for a new manager to do a little bit better because right about now you guys are basically giving out the same loser'ish vibes that Roy is getting such a hard time over.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, keni.

What I was trying to say was that Hodgson has clearly made a hash of things, but removing him isn't the miracle cure since there are serious problems with the quality of thesquad.

This wsa something that eventually led to Rafa's sacking too, since it's far easier to sack a manager than an entire team.

That's not being loserish; that's being realistic..aside fomr a better manger, we also need improvements in the squad.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218575#msg1218575 date=1289817362]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

We have indeed had this argument before, which is why you should know that no-one is talking about "expecting" a top four finish, but rather making a bit of more of a go at challenging for it. Last season, we were there or thereabouts for fourth at times despite being rubbish, so your argument of not being able to produce any kind of reasoned logic to back this argument up is wrong. We weren't a million miles away. We ultimately failed and drifted off towards the end, but then that's why everyone wanted Rafa sacked, isn't it?

This season we've been far far worse, so now everyone wants Roy sacked... knowing that without a manager who holds us back, we can be a little better. So given that we're not *that* far off top, what exactly are your expectations for a new manager to do a little bit better because right about now you guys are basically giving out the same loser'ish vibes that Roy is getting such a hard time over.
[/quote]

My expectations are not that many. What I want is a trough and through winner. Who has a vision on how his team is supposed to take on games. WHo knows what he demands from his players. And who has the class and dignity to pull our club together again and unite the fans with the team. A man who fans can reckognize a tiny bit of their own values and ideas with. Not that hard to find I think.

 

[keniget]

I was responding to the ridicule spideys post received, so I think it's fairly obvious what point I'm trying to make - that we could be doing a better job of challenging for fourth. At no point has anyone said that removing Ro is a miracle cure or that the squad isn't desperately in need of improvement.

The two viewpoints are not in direct competition with one another. If the belief is - as is almost implied by some comments here - that the squad is so bad that midtable is where we belong, then Roy isn't doing that bad a job. You can't have it both ways. If the squad is underperforming, the manager is shit and we're only six points away from fourth, then some improvement gained by a new manager who isn't quite as shit would see us close enough to fourth to consider it a challenge of sorts at least for the time being.

I'm not really seeing any scope for debate here.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42120.msg1218583#msg1218583 date=1289818298]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218575#msg1218575 date=1289817362]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42120.msg1218569#msg1218569 date=1289816950]
We have had this argument before.

The Squad is not as bad as it is being made out by Roy, but we are not good enough to expect top 4. It is a tough ask for any manager with this squad. I think that is where the difference of opinion lies with many people. looking at number of points off top 4 is neither here nor there, and it doesn't prove anything. I'm afraid this debate can't have good logic behind it. We all will have to just agree to disagree.
[/quote]

We have indeed had this argument before, which is why you should know that no-one is talking about "expecting" a top four finish, but rather making a bit of more of a go at challenging for it. Last season, we were there or thereabouts for fourth at times despite being rubbish, so your argument of not being able to produce any kind of reasoned logic to back this argument up is wrong. We weren't a million miles away. We ultimately failed and drifted off towards the end, but then that's why everyone wanted Rafa sacked, isn't it?

This season we've been far far worse, so now everyone wants Roy sacked... knowing that without a manager who holds us back, we can be a little better. So given that we're not *that* far off top, what exactly are your expectations for a new manager to do a little bit better because right about now you guys are basically giving out the same loser'ish vibes that Roy is getting such a hard time over.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, keni.

What I was trying to say was that Hodgson has clearly made a hash of things, but removing him isn't the miracle cure since there are serious problems with the quality of thesquad.

This wsa something that eventually led to Rafa's sacking too, since it's far easier to sack a manager than an entire team.

That's not being loserish; that's being realistic..aside fomr a better manger, we also need improvements in the squad.
[/quote]

from a personal point of view I'm not expecting miracles just competency. the tactics have clueless.
* defending on the edge of our own box regardless of who we play.
* meireles on the right wing.
* no subs sometimes for 70 mins regardless of what is happening on the pitch.
* poulsen.

it's bullshit. I would expect a new manager to come in and play in a manner that gives the team a CHANCE of winning games consistantly. this most certainly isn't the case currently, especially away from home.
but that said I would respect nesv's decision if they wanted a season to secure for the right manager.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218586#msg1218586 date=1289818658]
I was responding to the ridicule spideys post received, so I think it's fairly obvious what point I'm trying to make - that we could be doing a better job of challenging for fourth. At no point has anyone said that removing Ro is a miracle cure or that the squad isn't desperately in need of improvement.

The two viewpoints are not in direct competition with one another. If the belief is - as is almost implied by some comments here - that the squad is so bad that midtable is where we belong, then Roy isn't doing that bad a job. You can't have it both ways. If the squad is underperforming, the manager is shit and we're only six points away from fourth, then some improvement gained by a new manager who isn't quite as shit would see us close enough to fourth to consider it a challenge of sorts at least for the time being.

I'm not really seeing any scope for debate here.
[/quote]

that is exactly the point I was making you said it a lot better than I did.

 

[Oncy]

Who pissed on spideys chips?

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42120.msg1218586#msg1218586 date=1289818658]
I was responding to the ridicule spideys post received, so I think it's fairly obvious what point I'm trying to make - that we could be doing a better job of challenging for fourth. At no point has anyone said that removing Ro is a miracle cure or that the squad isn't desperately in need of improvement.

The two viewpoints are not in direct competition with one another. If the belief is - as is almost implied by some comments here - that the squad is so bad that midtable is where we belong, then Roy isn't doing that bad a job. You can't have it both ways. If the squad is underperforming, the manager is shit and we're only six points away from fourth, then some improvement gained by a new manager who isn't quite as shit would see us close enough to fourth to consider it a challenge of sorts at least for the time being.

I'm not really seeing any scope for debate here.
[/quote]


Fair enough,ken..I'm not going to defend Hodgson for being incredibly tactically inept and for not utilising the squad better.

I don't think anyone was ridiculing Neil's post, either...at least I wasnt trying to.