BYE BYE ROY!!!!!
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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42120.msg1209255#msg1209255 date=1288598403]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209242#msg1209242 date=1288597674]
chelsea are going to give roy a reality check at the weekend.
[/quote]
You know, I said the other day that I couldn't really give a fuck about Roy. He's a nice guy and probably isn't the one to lead us to where we want to be, but he IS our manager and he's had a tough start in terms of fixtures.
Blackpool was a terrible loss, but we have a shocker like that in us most seasons. The other defeats were Everton, United and City, all away, losable games in any given season. It took him three months to get to grips with Fulham and have them winning games. Yeah his away record was shit but in Europe and at home they became formidable for a side that had earlier been on the verge of relegation. We're a better team, no doubt, so you'd hope that the away record would improve while setting up a steady home record.
At the end of the day, I just want Liverpool to climb the table and start winning games, Roy's future is something that will be dealt with in due course, I hope we fuck Chelsea everywhere next week, firstly because I want Liverpool to win, secondly because it might shut all the moany bastards up who clearly fucking *hate* Roy and can't wait to tear apart everything that the guy says and does. I think a few people have lost sight of what we're here for and the fucking lowest of the low was the shit a few bellends posted in the Blackpool thread > "I hope we get beat today so he gets sacked". Well done to all of those.
[/quote]
oh, I definately agree with that. no one wants roy to string some results together more than me. I still think 4th is up for grabs.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209242#msg1209242 date=1288597674]
chelsea are going to give roy a reality check at the weekend.
[/quote]
You know, I said the other day that I couldn't really give a fuck about Roy. He's a nice guy and probably isn't the one to lead us to where we want to be, but he IS our manager and he's had a tough start in terms of fixtures.
Blackpool was a terrible loss, but we have a shocker like that in us most seasons. The other defeats were Everton, United and City, all away, losable games in any given season. It took him three months to get to grips with Fulham and have them winning games. Yeah his away record was shit but in Europe and at home they became formidable for a side that had earlier been on the verge of relegation. We're a better team, no doubt, so you'd hope that the away record would improve while setting up a steady home record.
At the end of the day, I just want Liverpool to climb the table and start winning games, Roy's future is something that will be dealt with in due course, I hope we fuck Chelsea everywhere next week, firstly because I want Liverpool to win, secondly because it might shut all the moany bastards up who clearly fucking *hate* Roy and can't wait to tear apart everything that the guy says and does. I think a few people have lost sight of what we're here for and the fucking lowest of the low was the shit a few bellends posted in the Blackpool thread > "I hope we get beat today so he gets sacked". Well done to all of those.
[/quote]
oh, I definately agree with that. no one wants roy to string some results together more than me. I still think 4th is up for grabs.
I didn't want Roy to be appointed as our manager.
I still don't believe despite our last two wins that he has turned things round and he is the right man for the job.
But as long as he is Liverpool manager he has my support and I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.
It is a shame that some people choose to support the "Roy out" campaign ahead of Liverpool football club.
It is also a shame that some of the people who would otherwise agree with me didn't extend similar support to our previous manger.
I still don't believe despite our last two wins that he has turned things round and he is the right man for the job.
But as long as he is Liverpool manager he has my support and I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.
It is a shame that some people choose to support the "Roy out" campaign ahead of Liverpool football club.
It is also a shame that some of the people who would otherwise agree with me didn't extend similar support to our previous manger.
Count old chap, I wish we could leave comparisons out of all the Roy debates, but it seems impossible, they seem inextricably linked.
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
I really don't care what he says in the press to be honest, what bugs me is that he seems to be so clueless so often on the pitch.
That just makes his bewildering comments in the press all the worse.
If we were playing well and his tactics were working, then his mutterings would be seen as self-deprecating.
But we're not, and they're not; so it's seen as defeatist and he's seen as woefully out of his depth.
That just makes his bewildering comments in the press all the worse.
If we were playing well and his tactics were working, then his mutterings would be seen as self-deprecating.
But we're not, and they're not; so it's seen as defeatist and he's seen as woefully out of his depth.
I fully (and sadly) agreed that it was time for Rafa to go towards the end of last season.
As I said before I don't think that Roy is the man to turn us around and make us contenders again.
Having those opinions and supporting Liverpool football club are not mutually exclusive.
I support the club and therefore the manager by default.
Frankly the fact that some "suporters" want us to lose so Roy will get the boot depresses me.
Similarly it depressed me when suporters had the same position when Rafa was in charge.
As I said before I don't think that Roy is the man to turn us around and make us contenders again.
Having those opinions and supporting Liverpool football club are not mutually exclusive.
I support the club and therefore the manager by default.
Frankly the fact that some "suporters" want us to lose so Roy will get the boot depresses me.
Similarly it depressed me when suporters had the same position when Rafa was in charge.
I could never, ever not want us to win either, but I'd cut those who currently feel that way a little bit of slack. There's an argument for saying that winning the odd game may end up being counter-productive if it enables Roy to cling on to his job.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42120.msg1209315#msg1209315 date=1288605948]
I could never, ever not want us to win either, but I'd cut those who currently feel that way a little bit of slack. There's an argument for saying that winning the odd game may end up being counter-productive if it enables Roy to cling on to his job.
[/quote]
Totally disagree. No Liverpool fan should EVER want Liverpool to lose a match. The notion that we can get rid of Hodgson and appoint some magic manager who will take us to instant success by applying superior tactics to the slender resources currently available is a dangerous delusion. At the moment every defeat is a serious blow to the club and worsens the situation that Hodgson or any successor has to deal with.
Jules, you may recall the situation when we (wrongly) thought that Liverpool had to lose a home game against Blackburn if the Scum were to be stopped from winning the league. Lots of fans said they would be supporting Blackburn, but when the referee blew his whistle to start the match, I don't believe anybody in Anfield found themselves capable of cheering on Blackburn.
I could never, ever not want us to win either, but I'd cut those who currently feel that way a little bit of slack. There's an argument for saying that winning the odd game may end up being counter-productive if it enables Roy to cling on to his job.
[/quote]
Totally disagree. No Liverpool fan should EVER want Liverpool to lose a match. The notion that we can get rid of Hodgson and appoint some magic manager who will take us to instant success by applying superior tactics to the slender resources currently available is a dangerous delusion. At the moment every defeat is a serious blow to the club and worsens the situation that Hodgson or any successor has to deal with.
Jules, you may recall the situation when we (wrongly) thought that Liverpool had to lose a home game against Blackburn if the Scum were to be stopped from winning the league. Lots of fans said they would be supporting Blackburn, but when the referee blew his whistle to start the match, I don't believe anybody in Anfield found themselves capable of cheering on Blackburn.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1209286#msg1209286 date=1288603829]
Count old chap, I wish we could leave comparisons out of all the Roy debates, but it seems impossible, they seem inextricably linked.
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
[/quote]
no offence vlad but finishing 7th is not losing the plot.
for every single arguement someone can bring up for wanting rafa out I can counter it by why he should have been retained, if for no other reason than seeing if the season was a blip or a trend.
Count old chap, I wish we could leave comparisons out of all the Roy debates, but it seems impossible, they seem inextricably linked.
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
[/quote]
no offence vlad but finishing 7th is not losing the plot.
for every single arguement someone can bring up for wanting rafa out I can counter it by why he should have been retained, if for no other reason than seeing if the season was a blip or a trend.
I'm getting fucking sick of the arguement rafa 'HAD' to go, no, rafa didn't 'HAVE' to go we 'CHOSE' to get rid of him on the back of ONE poor season.
There were lots where I was, unfortunately.
One mate of mine was actually very bitter about it, and claimed that we'd intentionally throw the game so the Mancs wouldnt take the title.
I told him that we werent going to throw the game, and that we'd beat them.
Of course, being a moron (as most Mancs are), he wsnt happy with my correct prediction as results elsewhere weren't satisfactory to them ;D
This is a bit hard to call; it's sickening to see people actually HOPE we lose.
But where there is a genuine belief that winning games entrenches the position of a manager whom they believe will be disastrous to the long-term interests of the club, I would have thought their position would be understood, even if not accepted.
I'm not in that category though; I'd rather get the 3 points and worry about the the implications later.
One mate of mine was actually very bitter about it, and claimed that we'd intentionally throw the game so the Mancs wouldnt take the title.
I told him that we werent going to throw the game, and that we'd beat them.
Of course, being a moron (as most Mancs are), he wsnt happy with my correct prediction as results elsewhere weren't satisfactory to them ;D
This is a bit hard to call; it's sickening to see people actually HOPE we lose.
But where there is a genuine belief that winning games entrenches the position of a manager whom they believe will be disastrous to the long-term interests of the club, I would have thought their position would be understood, even if not accepted.
I'm not in that category though; I'd rather get the 3 points and worry about the the implications later.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209329#msg1209329 date=1288606794]
I'm getting fucking sick of the arguement rafa 'HAD' to go, no, rafa didn't 'HAVE' to go we 'CHOSE' to get rid of him on the back of ONE poor season.
[/quote]
I'm sure most are sick of the blindness to Rafa's failings as well, eh Neil.
But let's not start another one of those threads.
I'm sure you can start thread if you like.
I'm getting fucking sick of the arguement rafa 'HAD' to go, no, rafa didn't 'HAVE' to go we 'CHOSE' to get rid of him on the back of ONE poor season.
[/quote]
I'm sure most are sick of the blindness to Rafa's failings as well, eh Neil.
But let's not start another one of those threads.
I'm sure you can start thread if you like.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42120.msg1209327#msg1209327 date=1288606685]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42120.msg1209315#msg1209315 date=1288605948]
I could never, ever not want us to win either, but I'd cut those who currently feel that way a little bit of slack. There's an argument for saying that winning the odd game may end up being counter-productive if it enables Roy to cling on to his job.
[/quote]
Totally disagree. No Liverpool fan should EVER want Liverpool to lose a match. The notion that we can get rid of Hodgson and appoint some magic manager who will take us to instant success by applying superior tactics to the slender resources currently available is a dangerous delusion. At the moment every defeat is a serious blow to the club and worsens the situation that Hodgson or any successor has to deal with.
Jules, you may recall the situation when we (wrongly) thought that Liverpool had to lose a home game against Blackburn if the Scum were to be stopped from winning the league. Lots of fans said they would be supporting Blackburn, but when the referee blew his whistle to start the match, I don't believe anybody in Anfield found themselves capable of cheering on Blackburn.
[/quote]
Portly, I think I've made it clear that it's not a point of view to which I'd subscribe. I do remember that Blackburn game and I too wanted us to win, though it felt odd at the end until the score came through from Upton Park and we learned that Andy Cole had kissed a last-minute chance goodbye, and the Mancs' title hopes with it.
All I'm saying is that I can forgive those fans who feel differently for the moment. Nobody's expecting miracles, but I do expect better than Roy's produced or - and this is the crucial point - is IMO capable of producing.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42120.msg1209315#msg1209315 date=1288605948]
I could never, ever not want us to win either, but I'd cut those who currently feel that way a little bit of slack. There's an argument for saying that winning the odd game may end up being counter-productive if it enables Roy to cling on to his job.
[/quote]
Totally disagree. No Liverpool fan should EVER want Liverpool to lose a match. The notion that we can get rid of Hodgson and appoint some magic manager who will take us to instant success by applying superior tactics to the slender resources currently available is a dangerous delusion. At the moment every defeat is a serious blow to the club and worsens the situation that Hodgson or any successor has to deal with.
Jules, you may recall the situation when we (wrongly) thought that Liverpool had to lose a home game against Blackburn if the Scum were to be stopped from winning the league. Lots of fans said they would be supporting Blackburn, but when the referee blew his whistle to start the match, I don't believe anybody in Anfield found themselves capable of cheering on Blackburn.
[/quote]
Portly, I think I've made it clear that it's not a point of view to which I'd subscribe. I do remember that Blackburn game and I too wanted us to win, though it felt odd at the end until the score came through from Upton Park and we learned that Andy Cole had kissed a last-minute chance goodbye, and the Mancs' title hopes with it.
All I'm saying is that I can forgive those fans who feel differently for the moment. Nobody's expecting miracles, but I do expect better than Roy's produced or - and this is the crucial point - is IMO capable of producing.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42120.msg1209337#msg1209337 date=1288607373]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209329#msg1209329 date=1288606794]
I'm getting fucking sick of the arguement rafa 'HAD' to go, no, rafa didn't 'HAVE' to go we 'CHOSE' to get rid of him on the back of ONE poor season.
[/quote]
I'm sure most are sick of the blindness to Rafa's failings as well, eh Neil.
But let's not start another one of those threads.
I'm sure you can start thread if you like.
[/quote]
the entire forum should declare 6CM a 'rafa free zone' meaning he isn't brought up in conversation at all.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209329#msg1209329 date=1288606794]
I'm getting fucking sick of the arguement rafa 'HAD' to go, no, rafa didn't 'HAVE' to go we 'CHOSE' to get rid of him on the back of ONE poor season.
[/quote]
I'm sure most are sick of the blindness to Rafa's failings as well, eh Neil.
But let's not start another one of those threads.
I'm sure you can start thread if you like.
[/quote]
the entire forum should declare 6CM a 'rafa free zone' meaning he isn't brought up in conversation at all.
I want us to stuff chelsea. I want us to win every game. If that meant hodgson staying fine, he'd be winning games and I'd have no complaints. Having said that, I'm just not convinced by him at the moment. I think we could easily keep him for six years and at the end of it have no trophies to show and have got no where near our recents points scores. That's how I feel at the mo.
[quote author=dirtyho link=topic=42120.msg1209342#msg1209342 date=1288607914]
I want us to stuff chelsea. I want us to win every game. If that meant hodgson staying fine, he'd be winning games and I'd have no complaints. Having said that, I'm just not convinced by him at the moment. I think we could easily keep him for six years and at the end of it have no trophies to show and have got no where near our recents points scores. That's how I feel at the mo.
[/quote]
There's not a chance he's going to be here for 6 years like Rafa or Houillier.
We're forgetting that he was brought in at time of great uncertainty when we weren't sure if we'd even have a club after OCtober 15th.
Now that things are a bit more certain, I'm pretty sure plans will be made for the long-term, and I doubt Hodgson figures in any long-term plans.
I want us to stuff chelsea. I want us to win every game. If that meant hodgson staying fine, he'd be winning games and I'd have no complaints. Having said that, I'm just not convinced by him at the moment. I think we could easily keep him for six years and at the end of it have no trophies to show and have got no where near our recents points scores. That's how I feel at the mo.
[/quote]
There's not a chance he's going to be here for 6 years like Rafa or Houillier.
We're forgetting that he was brought in at time of great uncertainty when we weren't sure if we'd even have a club after OCtober 15th.
Now that things are a bit more certain, I'm pretty sure plans will be made for the long-term, and I doubt Hodgson figures in any long-term plans.
All this hindsight regarding Rafa is rich really. He wasn't sacked because of one shit season, he went because of numerous failings over his whole tenure, finishing 7th and his mistakes during that season just really compounded the theory that we weren't getting any closer to the title with him in charge.
Hodgson might not be good enough, but that's a completely separate issue. Rafa went because we were haemorrhaging money on shit players and still enduring the same issues on the pitch that we had in his first season. Yes he was a success, particularly in Europe, but he was brought in to challenge for the title on a consistent basis and in 5 seasons we only got close once and when we did get ourselves in a position of strength we failed to capitalise due to poor decision making all round, on the pitch, in the transfer market, in the press, etc.
Hodgson might not be good enough, but that's a completely separate issue. Rafa went because we were haemorrhaging money on shit players and still enduring the same issues on the pitch that we had in his first season. Yes he was a success, particularly in Europe, but he was brought in to challenge for the title on a consistent basis and in 5 seasons we only got close once and when we did get ourselves in a position of strength we failed to capitalise due to poor decision making all round, on the pitch, in the transfer market, in the press, etc.
My position on rafa was I didn't want him gone. I thought I had perfectly justifiable reasons for it. It's still my position now. If you want to call that "hindsight" so be it but I think you might want to have a look in a dictionary. It's not a matter of right and wrong you know. People do hold different opinions to each other...
[quote author=dirtyho link=topic=42120.msg1209352#msg1209352 date=1288608487]
My position on rafa was I didn't want him gone. I thought I had perfectly justifiable reasons for it. It's still my position now. If you want to call that "hindsight" so be it but I think you might want to have a look in a dictionary. It's not a matter of right and wrong you know. People do hold different opinions to each other...
[/quote]
It's wrong though for suporters to want their team to lose.
.................in my opinion.
My position on rafa was I didn't want him gone. I thought I had perfectly justifiable reasons for it. It's still my position now. If you want to call that "hindsight" so be it but I think you might want to have a look in a dictionary. It's not a matter of right and wrong you know. People do hold different opinions to each other...
[/quote]
It's wrong though for suporters to want their team to lose.
.................in my opinion.
[quote author=dirtyho link=topic=42120.msg1209352#msg1209352 date=1288608487]
My position on rafa was I didn't want him gone. I thought I had perfectly justifiable reasons for it. It's still my position now. If you want to call that "hindsight" so be it but I think you might want to have a look in a dictionary. It's not a matter of right and wrong you know. People do hold different opinions to each other...
[/quote]
No one said it was right or wrong, but saying there were no justifiable reasons for getting rid is also wrong.
My position on rafa was I didn't want him gone. I thought I had perfectly justifiable reasons for it. It's still my position now. If you want to call that "hindsight" so be it but I think you might want to have a look in a dictionary. It's not a matter of right and wrong you know. People do hold different opinions to each other...
[/quote]
No one said it was right or wrong, but saying there were no justifiable reasons for getting rid is also wrong.
Absolutely. It's all very well to say that it was Benitez's only really terrible season, but there were times that he seemed to have lost the plot altogether, and it would have been perfectly reasonable to assume that he wouldn't have done any better this year.
Essentially, the unproveable argument is whether or not last season was a "blip".
[quote author=dirtyho link=topic=42120.msg1209360#msg1209360 date=1288608991]
I felt really bad for houllier st the end too. Even though I was more accepting of him going.
[/quote]
Same here. But at least when Houllier was on his bike, we knew who was likely to replace him - one of the most sought-after and successful young managers in the world - so it was a time of high excitement.
Compare. Contrast.
I felt really bad for houllier st the end too. Even though I was more accepting of him going.
[/quote]
Same here. But at least when Houllier was on his bike, we knew who was likely to replace him - one of the most sought-after and successful young managers in the world - so it was a time of high excitement.
Compare. Contrast.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42120.msg1209328#msg1209328 date=1288606706]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1209286#msg1209286 date=1288603829]
Count old chap, I wish we could leave comparisons out of all the Roy debates, but it seems impossible, they seem inextricably linked.
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
[/quote]
no offence vlad but finishing 7th is not losing the plot.
for every single arguement someone can bring up for wanting rafa out I can counter it by why he should have been retained, if for no other reason than seeing if the season was a blip or a trend.
[/quote]
The 7th spot we earned last season was just as mad as when Roy Evans steared the club to a thrid place in a two horse race.
We had numerous chances to adress simple things towards the end of last season. How we not ended number four when none of the others were even thinking it was realistic to be top four is a huge failure.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42120.msg1209286#msg1209286 date=1288603829]
Count old chap, I wish we could leave comparisons out of all the Roy debates, but it seems impossible, they seem inextricably linked.
I wanted Rafa gone , he had run his course and lost the plot, I can only put it down to the infighting with the owners and board, his own stubbornness, the position he had manipulated himself into as regards having the say over transfers etc and some real lack of judgement. Although there were some very admirable parts to him
He had six years, Hodgson is in his fourth month.
Now I was one of the people who welcomed the Hodgson era as a safe pair of hands and someone who had a much better idea of handling players. So yes, guilty of all charges from the anti-budgie brigade.
He has not got off to a great start, OK, he has got off to a shit start, some of which is of his own making, in, like his predecessor I hasten to add, by being too cautious, and team selection.
There are big question marks over at least one of his purchases , Pouslen, who was really a safety net given we needed someone to take over from Mascher in case he went, but at the same time, could had to be the right price in case we persuaded Mascher to stay.
Konchesky, well my jury, at least, is still out on him, it's too early given his injury interrupted start, I think he will be what he is, an average £5m left back.
One thing fo sho is he is a better average £5m left back than Dossena was.
Miereles on the other hand in these early days looks an excellent buy
As I say Roy has not helped himself, he was been unlucky with the start the fixture list threw up at him, and he has also not helped that two of our key players have completely failed to show up as yet, Torres and Cole.
I don't want to get into discussions on what the strength of the squad was that Rafa left , good or bad, but would say Roy clearly knows one of the biggest shortcomings where he did have his hands tied with the financials was the lack of quality support for Torres.
The other issue I thought might be one of Roy's strengths was his handling of the press, up to now it hasn't , it has been very poor and I can only put that down to frustration, anxiety and continually being on the back foot. I also accept his body language on the sidelines gives the wrong image, with all that head in the hands stuff.
I said some weeks ago , despite all this he would have until at least the turn of the year as far as I was concerned , and that still stands.
If he does not make it that far, If that aggravates some people that's tough, and NESV decide time is up and pull a rabbit out of the hat, I won't lose any sleep either.
regards
[/quote]
no offence vlad but finishing 7th is not losing the plot.
for every single arguement someone can bring up for wanting rafa out I can counter it by why he should have been retained, if for no other reason than seeing if the season was a blip or a trend.
[/quote]
The 7th spot we earned last season was just as mad as when Roy Evans steared the club to a thrid place in a two horse race.
We had numerous chances to adress simple things towards the end of last season. How we not ended number four when none of the others were even thinking it was realistic to be top four is a huge failure.
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