I've rarely seen many changes of view. Those on the left are often equally zealous in their views.
Big D vs Twitter
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I've rarely seen many changes of view. Those on the left are often equally zealous in their views.
You cannot empathise with them, because their brains work very differently to yours, so you can't use your brain to think about how to communicate with their brains. You need to construct a totally new brain which actually represents theirs, then use that second brain you've constructed inside your own brain, learn about it, and figure out how you should interact based on how the simulated brain responds to what you're about to say. I'm pretty sure this is impossible for you to do. It's a walk in the park for autistic people they have to do it every day, day after day, but the rest of society is fucked. I can't help but laugh.
It's funny you mention that because I have done that.
It's actually the only way I can fathom that some of these people actually genuinely believe they are the ones being wronged here, even when confronted with evidence that says otherwise.
I only speak to my experience here.
FASCIST!
Then you know the mental exhaustion it costs you. Autistic people have no choice but to suck it up, and resign themselves to being perpetually exhausted in order to function in your society. Well now the shoe is on all your feet, I foresee that nobody is manning up when the easier alternative is to just cancel each other, then return to your normal states of mind in a divided society. Half and half. The when the economic pain comes, those halves will themselves resent each other and divide into quarters. Then eighths. Before long there will be a dystopia.
I actually agree with this. It's the way the world will go without empathy.
And yes, there's definitely a collective mental exhaustion in the black community when it comes to "seeing the other side". Which is why you'll just see people rioting and saying "fuck the other side", they don't care about us anyway. That's what you saw in the summer. Black people just being unapologetic about Black Lives Matter. Not feeling the need to explain anymore that what we really mean is "Black Lives Matter too", because well, it's being deliberately misinterpreted by the other sides as "Only Black Lives Matter", and well, we're tired of playing those games about explaining oneself, when we know or believe the other side are deliberately being disingenuous to corrupt the message.
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Actually it's worse.
Muslim/Brown/Fascist/Antifa.
Worse than all of those. economic migrant!
And I of mine.
I've been part of conversations with left V right, conservative v liberal and the liberals have hounded down the more conservative voices.
Working in academia means lots of leftie liberal progressives here. JK Rowling cancelled last week cos of her trans views, which seem to be quite balanced, everyone voting brexit is a thicko, and lots of yes BLM conversations after the protests/riots over there which amounted to a bunch of white people chatting for a while.
I don't think I'm in a unique position of seeing lots of batshit crazy angles here and of course have plenty of my own biases but where I'm sitting lots of this is not going to come to fruition for another year or two. Biden needs to work super super hard to bridge some of these issues, while Boris doesn't seem to give a shit.
I think some of what the general, casual viewer say is correct. I think some of what you say is probably correct.
I haven't delved into the inner workings of BLM, nor have most other people. Most people see the broader message of racial equality and kneeling before footy games. Most see the Trumpers as violent gun nuts. That's why there's a disparity in how they're treated in the mainstream media. It doesn't really matter what's going on behind the scenes - perception is reality.
Just to humour you, though, I don't agree with the kneeling before the game anymore. It's a largely pointless gesture that has lost any negligible impact it might have had at the beginning. I was disgusted when episodes of Always Sunny were taken down from Netflix for perceived racism. I don't think companies should be forced to fulfill quotas for BAME workers. I think we're heading towards an unprecedented period of censorship, surveillance and erosion of free speech rights.
I also think Biden will prove to be a return to the underwhelming (at best) status quo. I would've loved to have seen Bernie Sanders get in. But Biden will probably get America back to bombing a load of brown countries. I also believe there were probably some shenanigans involved with the election (probably on both sides) - there certainly was by Trump in 2016! Were you as vocal about that then as you are now?
You're probably right about Hunter Biden.
However, I also believe Trump was corrupt and extremely dangerous. He's practically started a civil war and changed the political landscape of the entire planet singlehandedly. He's a con man who has manipulated and mobilised the disenfranchised lunatic fringe in America for personal gain. I can definitely see how the Democrats might have used underhanded tactics to get rid of him.
As with most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
The attempts to discredit the whole process is rather disingenuous and simple;
people whom don’t want to support the most common take away which is equality but saying that is problematic for obvious reasons including cowardice so what’s safer to say is we don’t believe in the actual BLM politics, defund the police etc. Anyone actually believe Millwall fans or Le Tossier care about the politics behind actual BLM organization ?
It’s age old tactic used to discredit the general equality message. Does anyone really believe J Edgar Hoover harassed and spied systematically on M Luther King because of suspicion of communist links or extra marital affairs?
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In my circles, I'm able to talk to those liberals and educate them that not everything they thick is progressive is necessarily good.
But don't get me wrong, there are some whacko liberals I've met too who believe that there's no such thing as gender, which again, I choose not to engage with because I don't care enough to.
I agree with a lot of what you've said here.
Black people aren't monoliths. We don't all believe that kneeling before a game is particular useful (after the first month of doing it). We also think a lot of the uproar around Netflix and some of those shows (Blackadder for example, which I love), was ridiculous and is done by left wing nuts to largely take away from the progressive agenda to make it look ridiculous.
I also don't have much faith in Biden. Nor did I have much faith in Obama. Another status-quo centrist who serves to put people to sleep and not create any lasting change.
One of the few good things I liked about Trump was he was polarising and he got black people to actually protest for themselves against perceived injustice. That's something Biden/Obama never got them to do. They were pacifiers.
It always genuinely saddens me when clearly intelligent people, who could help if they were so inclined, pretend that they think that 95% of those of us supporting this incarnation of the BLM movement do so to support of the manifesto of the original BLM organization, as opposed to the actual - and glaringly obvious - reason, which is to protest the unquestionable racial inequality that the police forces over here display every fucking day.
And when they then compare the violence that has occurred at some of those demonstrations to last week's pre-planned and utterly predictable mini-coup, carried out by a bunch of pig-ignorant racists who simply refuse to accept that their rat king didn't win this time, as if the reasons behind was has caused the people involved on both sides to act in this manner doesn't matter... FFS.
And when they then compare the violence that has occurred at some of those demonstrations to last week's pre-planned and utterly predictable mini-coup, carried out by a bunch of pig-ignorant racists who simply refuse to accept that their rat king didn't win this time, as if the reasons behind was has caused the people involved on both sides to act in this manner doesn't matter... FFS.
That isn't the thing being compared. The people critical of the trump riots are not discussing the merits of their grievance or their cause, they are criticizing it for the violence. So that's why you have it compared to the BLM violence to point out the obvious double standard.
Oh and while everyone is bitching over their virtue signals, the twitter chief financial officer quietly ditched $350k worth of shares once the reality hit him in the gut, because that's the only thing that matters at the end of the day, the only real thing, https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/...00004/xslF345X03/wf-form4_161066906290322.xml
Oh and while everyone is bitching over their virtue signals, the twitter chief financial officer quietly ditched $350k worth of shares once the reality hit him in the gut, because that's the only thing that matters at the end of the day, the only real thing, https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/...00004/xslF345X03/wf-form4_161066906290322.xml
When black people are routinely murdered in the streets by a police force which is then rarely held accountable for those murders, and this has been a known issue from the very inception of that police force, yet nobody seems to care enough about to stop it from happening, violence, though sad, is inevitable. You can only marginalize an entire ethnicity of people, numbering in the millions, for so long, before backlash becomes as predictable as the sunrise.
When white people become violent to the point of actual rebellion and the premeditated assault on the Capitol building simply because black people have the audacity to exist near them, because they lost the election this time, and because they're being asked to wear a mask over their faces so as to not kill their own grandparents, though there is also violence, that is an entirely different matter.
Pretending that they're the same thing is like comparing two people involved in a car accident, where one of them was drunk and caused the wreck... Yes, they were both involved in the accident, but the 'why' behind how they both ended up at this place is totally different.
You're far too intelligent to pretend that you think otherwise.
When white people become violent to the point of actual rebellion and the premeditated assault on the Capitol building simply because black people have the audacity to exist near them, because they lost the election this time, and because they're being asked to wear a mask over their faces so as to not kill their own grandparents, though there is also violence, that is an entirely different matter.
Pretending that they're the same thing is like comparing two people involved in a car accident, where one of them was drunk and caused the wreck... Yes, they were both involved in the accident, but the 'why' behind how they both ended up at this place is totally different.
You're far too intelligent to pretend that you think otherwise.
I think I know where @dantes is coming from in regards to people being intrinsically in 2 different camps and never able to understand each other. There is a famous essay “Hedgehog and the Fox” exploring the conservative vs liberal mindset in some detail and there lots of empirical studies showing that some people are indeed drawn to complex and contradictory information and others are hostile and threatened by it.
That being said, I don’t think that spectrum of personality traits overlays the political right-left spectrum so neatly. I’ve definitely seen my share of close-minded/dogmatic leftists - some of them fall into the “tankie” or other authoritarian-left camps, but there are actually lots of people who think they are liberal because of their social circle and education, but are in reality quite close-minded.
Love @ibromurph’s posts in this thread BTW.
That being said, I don’t think that spectrum of personality traits overlays the political right-left spectrum so neatly. I’ve definitely seen my share of close-minded/dogmatic leftists - some of them fall into the “tankie” or other authoritarian-left camps, but there are actually lots of people who think they are liberal because of their social circle and education, but are in reality quite close-minded.
Love @ibromurph’s posts in this thread BTW.
I know that. But the 'why' isn't being discussed for the white people because they have a legitimate grievance about the election being rigged and the constitution being hand waved away. It's the media's choice to obsessively focus on the violence and pretend that the reason the other 99% of people were there to protest never existed. So then if the causes doesn't exist, violence is violence whether by the whites or by the blacks. Your problem should be with the fake news, not either one of the causes they are protesting about.
No, my problem is with neo-nazis, those who apologize for them, and people who pretend that both sides have legitimate concerns.
In most things I encounter, I think myself open-minded and able to listen, learn and be wrong. In this particular matter, I have no desire to listen to somebody whose first reaction to a BLM protest is to scream 'All Lives Matter', as if white people are somehow treated the same way as minorities are, and thus any attempt to improve the way minorities are treated would mean their being elevated above white people... It's just wrong.
I don't care about why they're yelling it. Their ignorance, their racism, their fragility is not something I will ever take a second to understand or empathize with. And anybody who pretends that my intolerance of their intolerance is the same thing, and an equal part of the problem that we're now faced with, can also fuck right off. Fuck me, there are people here who, had they and the internet been around in 1944, would have defended the fucking Nazis and claimed that the allies pushing back as was as much the problem as the Nazis' initial aggression was.
There is no 'fake news', as that cunt and his followers proclaim there to be... There is right wing media and there is left wing media, and they slant their reporting of what's happening to their own ends, yes. But only one side pretends that this cunt isn't a KKK leader in all but attire, inspiring hatred and violence everywhere he goes. Only one side pretends that he wasn't 100% responsible for what happened last week, and has been happening over here for the past four fucking years. THAT'S the fake news, mate. That people push back against that is understandable and laudable, not equally wrong, FFS.
You say the word 'either cause' in your last line to me... Those who hang on his every word, who manufacture this violence and chaos in an attempt to undermine the natural and legal transfer of power, who claim the election was stolen, who refuse to accept the rules simply because they no longer like like them, who stormed the Capitol intent on overthrowing the government by violent means, taking hostages, setting off bombs, those pricks don't have a cause... They have a manifesto. Just like their Austrian mate did in the 1930s and 40s.
This isn't right V left, mate. It's right V wrong. And if you argue that point, you're on the wrong side.
That's where you go wrong. If you listened to him or his supporters you wouldn't make such an absurd conclusion. It sounds like you listen to racist people, then because those sorts of people are more likely to vote trump than biden, you get the cause and effect backwards and start projecting that hatred onto trump. 80 million people are not racist and are not following a kkk movement. Get real.
What proof have you got of that?
Where are you getting 80m from? And why not..? Because it's too hard to fathom that their numbers could be that big? 'Get real' is fucking right, mate. They may not be burning crosses in their neighbour's gardens, but they (at best) don't care enough about it to take a stand against it, which, to me, is just as bad.
Next you're gonna tell me that he didn't incite that terrorism last Wednesday. And then you're gonna tell me that a BLM rally would have been handled exactly the same way...
Next you're gonna tell me that he didn't incite that terrorism last Wednesday. And then you're gonna tell me that a BLM rally would have been handled exactly the same way...
The lack of evidence from anywhere that it was, maybe..? Anyway, the burden of proof here is not on those who claim all is fair to prove that, it's for those claiming this massive and obvious fraud to prove THAT. And they've been thrown out of (often Republican) courts at least 59 times out of 60 when they've brought this utter bullshit forward.
You see I've always hated politics because: 1) Listen to politicians speak. 2) There doesn't ever seem to be a middle ground, where people can see the negatives of the side they favor, and the positives in the other side.
We pick the worst excesses of the other side and paint that as the general picture. And - of course, hearing your side painted in a hateful light doesn't engender a positive response. Social media (and the lack of a responsible public media) makes it all so much worse. Hatred becomes the norm.
We pick the worst excesses of the other side and paint that as the general picture. And - of course, hearing your side painted in a hateful light doesn't engender a positive response. Social media (and the lack of a responsible public media) makes it all so much worse. Hatred becomes the norm.
About how many people voted for him. No he did not incite the attack, that's pure fantasy peddled by the fake news and democrats.
More fantasy peddled by the fake news. The point is most of those 80m think it was rigged, and so do many democrats. As you have seen quite a lot of them are violent, and plotted to assassinate the congressmen. Diffusing that anger by saying the burden of proof is on them so shut up, isn't going to diffuse it, it's going to inflame it. The burden was on the people who ought to have foreseen that they might end up getting killed, to prove the issue one way or another.
You can prove or disprove election fraud by counting some paper and plotting a few graphs of the data. It's a weeks work at most. Instead of just willingly going fine, sure, let's do this, one side put up the roadblocks and obstructed it with the help of the media. Now it is too late. Nothing will change the result. So that's why it's easy and justified to resort to violence and murder. Their own fault for irrationally refusing to count, as if the act of counting was some blasphemous act that would have seen the deaths of millions of children, that's how hard they fought against something so simple. Now they can die for all I care.
I was very negative about his hair. About him attacking Syria, although admittedly he got that one right in retrospect. I was negative about his condemnation of the BLM rioters. About him allowing oil companies to put their grubby hands on the antarctic. Four things already off the top of my head. You're fake news.
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